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  #16   ^
Old Tue, Mar-20-07, 14:41
deb34's Avatar
deb34 deb34 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,896
 
Plan: CAD/OMAD
Stats: 231.6/226.5/199 Female 66 inches
BF:not/low/enough
Progress: 16%
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http://forum.lowcarber.org/showpost...93&postcount=34

Here's an interesting link i posted a little while ago about the lack of VitD and calcified cholesterol in the heart.... i wonder if the good doctor has checked his own VitD levels in all those 30 years....maybe not

i recommed the second link listed above for the entire article not just the part i quoted.
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  #17   ^
Old Wed, Mar-21-07, 08:01
Mutant's Avatar
Mutant Mutant is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 332
 
Plan: DiPasquale Radical Diet
Stats: 301.5/260.2/260 Male 71
BF:25%/?%/15%
Progress: 100%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceberezin
Has anyone noticed that Olympic marathon runners look very gaunt? It is probably caused by constant carbo-loading that prevents the burning of fat for fuel and encourages the body to cannibalize its protein stores in the muscle tissue to produce glucose for fuel when it runs out of glycogen and dietary carbohydrates. Looking fit and thin is not the same as being fit and thin.


I don't think it is the low-carb diet per say, but rather the type of exercise. "Long and Slow" cardio and extreme endurace events to a greater degree push the wrong hormonal profile for one; high cortisone and low growth hormone and testosteron, while heavy weighlifting and HIIT type exercise pushes the opposite hormonal profile, low cortisone and high growth hormone and testosterone. The result is for athletes that may be consuming the same calories, marathoners will be dissapated, scrawny and have significant body fat percentages compared to a sprinter that will be heavily muscled and low body fat percentage. Also, there are very significant differences on how 'fat' is used as fuel, the end result being that "long and slow" tend to retain fat mass and HIIT tend to burn fat mass. (A good detailed explanation of this phenomenon is in "The Doctor's Heart Cure") Curiously, many "thin" people like CRonbies (brains! brains! brains!), super models and anorexics have much larger percentages of their body mass as fat than first appears. They have small amounts of lean tissue (muscle) and appear "thin". Physiologists where I work use the term "fat-skinny" to describe the condition, and with recent diet trends of starvation and little exercise is more commonly seen outside the cult extremists. I point being, the thin person you see on the street is most likely not very lean. That is another one of the reasons BMI is suspect and largely worthless as an individual guide to health status.

Kind regards
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  #18   ^
Old Wed, Mar-21-07, 10:00
2bthinner!'s Avatar
2bthinner! 2bthinner! is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,345
 
Plan: Paleo Gluten free
Stats: 242/216/130 Female 5'7.5"
BF:too/dang/much
Progress: 23%
Location: Florida
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
His exercise treated the "warning symptoms" but not the problem.


It's possible that exercise masks rather than treats warning symptoms. In any event, it appears that additional diagnostic testing is recommended for some of us. Which of us remains to be figured out.

Many diseases progress without symptoms. Which is why we have mammograms, pap smears, prostate tests, and so forth. Go get 'em!


Which is exactly what our doctors are doing when they prescribe stains/diuretics. Masking/treating the symptom and leaving the "problem" not only untouched, but added to.

As to mammograms, I'm waiting for the sonogram one to get to at least within an hour of me. My mother has large, dense breasts and goes. But, I've read where mammograms aren't effective in reading large, dense breasts and you get sent for a sonogram anyway. Not to mention I've also read where getting radiated like that once a year may actually cause breast cancer. I'm like a 34/36F.
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  #19   ^
Old Wed, Mar-21-07, 10:19
Whoa182's Avatar
Whoa182 Whoa182 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,770
 
Plan: CRON / Zone
Stats: 118/110/110 Male 5ft 7"
BF:very low
Progress: 100%
Location: Cardiff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutant
Curiously, many "thin" people like CRonbies (brains! brains! brains!), super models and anorexics have much larger percentages of their body mass as fat than first appears. They have small amounts of lean tissue (muscle) and appear "thin".


http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/101/17/6659 TEXT
PDF http://www.pnas.org/cgi/reprint/030...717435148ab5ea7

Human CRers Total body fat, % (men) 6.7% +/- 4
Lean mass, % (men) 93.3%
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  #20   ^
Old Wed, Mar-21-07, 11:14
kaypeeoh kaypeeoh is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,216
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 185/180/165
BF:
Progress: 25%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutant
I don't think it is the low-carb diet per say, but rather the type of exercise. "Long and Slow" cardio and extreme endurace events to a greater degree push the wrong hormonal profile for one; high cortisone and low growth hormone and testosteron, while heavy weighlifting and HIIT type exercise pushes the opposite hormonal profile, low cortisone and high growth hormone and testosterone. The result is for athletes that may be consuming the same calories, marathoners will be dissapated, scrawny and have significant body fat percentages compared to a sprinter that will be heavily muscled and low body fat percentage. Also, there are very significant differences on how 'fat' is used as fuel, the end result being that "long and slow" tend to retain fat mass and HIIT tend to burn fat mass.
\

There was a study funded by Runners World. Two marathon runners of similar ability and body mass each ran a marathon on a treadmill. A marathon is a 26.2 mile race. One ran it in 3 hours, the other in 4 hours. Both runners were hooked up to gizmos that recorded what percentage of calories were burned from fat, protein and glycogen. They burned the exact number of calories during the marathons. But the slower runner burned something like 85% of the calories from fat.

Members of this list love to crow over the idea that we evolved into meat eaters. If so, we also evolved into runners. Running is the best exercise for general health. You don't need a gym membership, you don't need expensive equipment, just some shoes and sunscreen.

I've done over 30 marathons, two dozen 50 mile races, three 24-hour races and one 100-mile race. Those 'scrawny' runners are a tough bunch, running in all weather, running with blisters and injuries. My guess is they're generally healthier than those bloated iron-pumpers I see at the gym.
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  #21   ^
Old Wed, Mar-21-07, 11:51
Mutant's Avatar
Mutant Mutant is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 332
 
Plan: DiPasquale Radical Diet
Stats: 301.5/260.2/260 Male 71
BF:25%/?%/15%
Progress: 100%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaypeeoh
There was a study funded by Runners World. Two marathon runners of similar ability and body mass each ran a marathon on a treadmill. A marathon is a 26.2 mile race. One ran it in 3 hours, the other in 4 hours. Both runners were hooked up to gizmos that recorded what percentage of calories were burned from fat, protein and glycogen. They burned the exact number of calories during the marathons. But the slower runner burned something like 85% of the calories from fat.


The problem is that systemically and hormonally, the long distance runners or traditional cardio people don't continue to burn fat well beyond exercise. The HIIT type exercisers burn much more fat for HOURS after their brief (20minutes) exercise regimen, amounting to many times over the fat burned during exercise for the "long and slow". There are several studies on this phenomenon and Al Sears does a good job of explaining. That is if you are interested.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaypeeoh
Members of this list love to crow over the idea that we evolved into meat eaters. If so, we also evolved into runners. Running is the best exercise for general health. You don't need a gym membership, you don't need expensive equipment, just some shoes and sunscreen.


I think interval sprinting can be great but I think for general health that extended runs or any type of "long and slow" exercise is horrible with regard to the cardiopumonary system, orthopedics and body composition. Who looks healthier, a sprinter or a marathoner? (I think a large majority would say the sprinter, but to each his own.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaypeeoh
I've done over 30 marathons, two dozen 50 mile races, three 24-hour races and one 100-mile race. Those 'scrawny' runners are a tough bunch, running in all weather, running with blisters and injuries. My guess is they're generally healthier than those bloated iron-pumpers I see at the gym.


I will not judge how someone wants to use their body or compete. I admire many athletes but the wear and tear on their bodies beyond their playing years can be crippling (e.g. football and boxing) and would not be recommended as being 'healthy'. I think given a dozen 'health markers' that the bloated iron-pumpers would out-perform by a wide margin a marathoner on nearly every test.

Kind regards
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  #22   ^
Old Wed, Mar-21-07, 11:53
arc's Avatar
arc arc is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,186
 
Plan: Meat Only
Stats: 200/169.6/175 Male 5'11''
BF:
Progress: 122%
Location: Eastern WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaypeeoh
If so, we also evolved into runners.


What? We evolved to be marathon runners? Why would that be? I could see having the ability to run short distances quickly but not long distances.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaypeeoh
Running is the best exercise for general health.


If you don't mind busted up joints when you are older.
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  #23   ^
Old Wed, Mar-21-07, 12:01
K Walt K Walt is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 606
 
Plan: PP
Stats: 210/170/170
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: NJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoa182
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/101/17/6659 TEXT
PDF http://www.pnas.org/cgi/reprint/030...717435148ab5ea7

Human CRers Total body fat, % (men) 6.7% +/- 4
Lean mass, % (men) 93.3%



Acknowledged, CR is the one true way, without fault. The cure for all that ails humankind. We get it.
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  #24   ^
Old Wed, Mar-21-07, 13:39
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is offline
Posts: 8,275
 
Plan: Paleoish
Stats: 225/175/175 Male 71.5 inches
BF:18%
Progress: 100%
Location: Longmont, Colorado
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I have never viewed ultra-marathoners as healthy. They are very 'fit' in that they have tremendous endurance, but they are very susceptible to infections as they have poor immune systems.

I used to be a runner and quit because of a knee problem (running related). I feel much healthier now since I have started cycling (lots of intervals) and doing 'strength' related activities.
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  #25   ^
Old Wed, Mar-21-07, 13:49
mrfreddy's Avatar
mrfreddy mrfreddy is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 761
 
Plan: common sense low carb
Stats: 221/190/175 Male 6 feet
BF:27/13/10??
Progress: 67%
Location: New York City
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there was a NY Times article a couple of months back about the ill-effects of marathoning... cant find the article right now, but I did find some quotes from it:
Quote:
"A new study by Dr. Siegel and colleagues at Massachusetts General Hospital and other institutions is at least suggestive. Sixty entrants from the 2004 and 2005 Boston Marathon were tested before and after the race. Each was given an echocardiogram to find abnormalities in heart rhythm and was checked for blood markers of cardiac problems - in particular for troponin, a protein found in cardiac muscle cells. If the heart is traumatized, troponin can show up in the blood. Its presence can determine whether there has been damage from a heart attack.

The runners (41 men, 19 women) had normal cardiac function before the marathon, with no signs of troponin in their blood. Twenty minutes after finishing, 60 percent of the group had elevated troponin levels, and 40 percent had levels high enough to indicate the destruction of heart muscle cells. Most also had noticeable changes in heart rhythms. Those who had run less than 35 miles a week leading up to the race had the highest troponin levels and the most pronounced changes in heart rhythm.

The findings, published in the Nov. 28 issue of Circulation, a journal of the American Heart Association, were a surprise, and not least to the runners."
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  #26   ^
Old Wed, Mar-21-07, 14:56
GeoUSA's Avatar
GeoUSA GeoUSA is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 298
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 185/154/155 Male 71
BF:18%+/14%/12%
Progress: 103%
Location: Virginia, USA
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I think heredity can win even against good diet and exercise. My family experienced a big shock this month. My partner and I have followed low carb and performed strength and cardio training at a gym for over 3 years (since Jan 2004). We both lost about 30 - 35 pounds and have kept it off. My partner had a small heart attack at the gym this month. He had two blockages cutting off much of the heart's primary supply of blood. He's fixed now with two cobalt/chromium stints and will return to work soon. He's 40 years old! Note: his father died of a heart attack at age 42.

His docs seem to approve of his diet/exercise (though we do have to call it something like South Beach because they "freak out" at the mention of Atkins. For the record we love veggies and some fruits. We had continued to describe our diet as Atkins because we like to give Dr. Atkins credit for opening so many people's eyes and really starting this whole way of eating.

Also, his lipids are normal to borderline. Naturally, the docs are aiming to send his cholesterol levels far below normal - much to our concern. Right now he is off Zocor because his liver function went far too high. On the other hand, his family history does seem to be a proven problem now so perhaps a lower dose of statin is the RIGHT thing to do.

Sigh! We are surprised, disappointed, and concerned. We continue to eat a good diet (low carb) but have switched to egg beaters, less butter, and lower fat meat choices and continue to eat lots of veggies. He will be returning to work in a couple of weeks and also the gym.
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  #27   ^
Old Wed, Mar-21-07, 15:38
Wyvrn's Avatar
Wyvrn Wyvrn is offline
Dog is my copilot
Posts: 1,448
 
Plan: paleo/lowcarb
Stats: 210/162/145 Female 62in
BF:
Progress: 74%
Location: Olympia, WA
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Geo - sorry to hear about your partner's heart trouble. If you haven't yet, I'd highly recommend reading Protein Power Life Plan by Dr. Micheal Eades. It has a lot of information on factors that can strongly influence cardio-vascular health, such as magnesium and omega-3 fatty acid deficiency.
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  #28   ^
Old Wed, Mar-21-07, 16:32
kaypeeoh kaypeeoh is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,216
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 185/180/165
BF:
Progress: 25%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arc
What? We evolved to be marathon runners? Why would that be? I could see having the ability to run short distances quickly but not long distances.
If you don't mind busted up joints when you are older.


We evolved as hunter/gatherers. I don't think the wooly mammoth stood around waiting to be attacked by hairless animals with pointy sticks. American Indians would chase a deer til it collapsed from exhaustion and could be killed. The deer would race away from the Indians til he felt safe, but when the Indians got close he'd race away again. Eventually he ran out of glycogen and couldn't run anymore. Our physiology works best with fat-burning for long, slow distance with brief spurts of all-out effort. That's why we have mainly fat stores but very little glycogen stores.

BTW, I'm 50 and my joints are fine, thanks.
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  #29   ^
Old Wed, Mar-21-07, 21:50
2bthinner!'s Avatar
2bthinner! 2bthinner! is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,345
 
Plan: Paleo Gluten free
Stats: 242/216/130 Female 5'7.5"
BF:too/dang/much
Progress: 23%
Location: Florida
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Quote:
American Indians would chase a deer til it collapsed from exhaustion and could be killed
They also used horses...
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  #30   ^
Old Thu, Mar-22-07, 04:33
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bthinner!
They also used horses...


And arrows.
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