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  #16   ^
Old Mon, Feb-26-07, 21:50
hometeam's Avatar
hometeam hometeam is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 93
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 277/234/187 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 48%
Location: Middle Georgia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lpioch
I really wish the Eades had left the chapter in about fiber.


I have a feeling it would have said that fiber for fiber's sake is worthless.

Below is a link to Michael Eades' blog. Here's a quote where he responded in the feedback section:

Dr. Michael Eades:
Quote:
When we wrote Protein Power we wrote an entire chapter on how worthless fiber really is. Our editor figured that since the book was already to long, we needed to cut it. Why, she wondered, should we spend an entire chapter talking about something unnecessary for the program.



http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=274#comments
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  #17   ^
Old Mon, Feb-26-07, 23:15
waywardsis's Avatar
waywardsis waywardsis is offline
Dazilous
Posts: 2,657
 
Plan: NeanderkIF
Stats: 140/114/110 Female 5 feet 2 inches
BF:
Progress: 87%
Location: Toronto, ON
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Quote:
Can it be beneficial for them to up their fiber intake (naturally)? I personally think YES because i think our ancestors ate much fiber in their diets (easier to get things off of bushes and trees than to take down another animal from the hunt). My own speculation. But I don't think it is right to cast fiber off just because we can maintain regularity.


Easier to take things from bushes and trees...but can be expensive as far as energy output goes, and you're not getting a huge return on your time investment. Besides, it would depend on your geographic location and what's available on bushes and trees. Some places, like the Canadian north, have nothing available and traditional Inuit diets were practically devoid of vegetation. Most of North America and Northern Europe wouldn't have had much in the way of fibre available year-round.

Gathering isn't just vegetation, which for some reason we tend to assume: it also includes small protein sources like insects, shellfish etc. Far bigger nutritional bang for your buck there.

I don't think fibre will hurt anyone (at least, not in small amounts, and for ppl with IBS etc it can certainly be harmful) but I don't think it really helps anyone much. I used to eat cereal with 14g fibre per serving - seriously - and it didn't help me at all!
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  #18   ^
Old Tue, Jun-05-07, 05:59
NothingNew's Avatar
NothingNew NothingNew is offline
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Posts: 30
 
Plan: Protein Power
Stats: 230/220/180 Male 68 inches
BF:
Progress:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waywardsis
Easier to take things from bushes and trees...but can be expensive as far as energy output goes, and you're not getting a huge return on your time investment. Besides, it would depend on your geographic location and what's available on bushes and trees. Some places, like the Canadian north, have nothing available and traditional Inuit diets were practically devoid of vegetation. Most of North America and Northern Europe wouldn't have had much in the way of fibre available year-round.

Gathering isn't just vegetation, which for some reason we tend to assume: it also includes small protein sources like insects, shellfish etc. Far bigger nutritional bang for your buck there.

I don't think fibre will hurt anyone (at least, not in small amounts, and for ppl with IBS etc it can certainly be harmful) but I don't think it really helps anyone much. I used to eat cereal with 14g fibre per serving - seriously - and it didn't help me at all!


Wow, seeing the word Inuit sure makes me think of that ol' TV show Due South.

I've taken a lot of fiber over the past 5 years and I don't think it's done me any good.
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  #19   ^
Old Tue, Jun-05-07, 09:11
sleeknslim's Avatar
sleeknslim sleeknslim is offline
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Posts: 97
 
Plan: Neanderthinish
Stats: 171/156/125 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 33%
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http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/ibs.html

Check out this link to Barry Groves on IBS and fiber. I never had a problem with constipation in my life but I did have the opposite problem until I gave up whole wheat bread. I'm sure I read a really big long article somewhere on the internet about the problems with fiber but I don't remember where now. I thought it was Barry Groves but this is all I can find quickly.
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  #20   ^
Old Thu, Jun-07-07, 09:39
CalicoCat's Avatar
CalicoCat CalicoCat is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,363
 
Plan: Protein Power
Stats: 168/163/128 Female 5'1.5''
BF:44%/44%/22-28%
Progress: 13%
Location: Canada, Montrťal
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Thanks for the link Sleeknslim, I am just starting to understand why I used to get so sick eating fruits and whole grain food! I thought I was the only one who got sick with too much fibre. When I watch the commercials for All-brand that "promotes regularity" I sometimes feel that I am the only person on earth with "too much regularity". Well not anymore, now that I follow Protein Power, I don't have the cramps and excessive regularity anymore, and now, I even know why! I am still a little concern that I am not eating enough fibber since there are some colon cancer in the family... but how can getting me sick everyday could be good for my health?
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  #21   ^
Old Thu, Jun-07-07, 17:13
BawdyWench's Avatar
BawdyWench BawdyWench is offline
Posts: 7,356
 
Plan: IF & Keto
Stats: 205/193/170 Female 5'6
BF:Too much!
Progress: 34%
Location: Rural Maine
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I'm currently reading all of Dr. Mike's blogs, and he mentions numerous times in passing that he does not believe fiber is necessary, and could be harmful. I agree. For most of my years (since 1999) eating low-carb, I've eaten a lot of veggies, and hence a lot of fiber. Constipation became a HUGE problem for me. So I started taking supplemental fiber. STILL a HUGE problem.

Over the past year, I've dropped my veggie (and hence fiber) intake down to near zero, and ... voila ... no problems AT ALL with constipation.

I believe it was the famous Framingham Nurses Study that showed no advantage in any way from eating fiber. No weight loss, no reduction in colon cancer.

We each have to do as we see fit. For me, fiber is the enemy.

And all those "lovely" veggies and fruits -- according to Dr. Mike, most (all?) of the vitamins in them are fat-soluble, meaning if you don't eat fat with them, you're not absorbing any of the nutrients.
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  #22   ^
Old Thu, Jun-07-07, 18:49
BawdyWench's Avatar
BawdyWench BawdyWench is offline
Posts: 7,356
 
Plan: IF & Keto
Stats: 205/193/170 Female 5'6
BF:Too much!
Progress: 34%
Location: Rural Maine
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Here's one of Dr. Mike's comments, this one in response to someone asking about our "need" for fiber:
Quote:
I canít recall without going back through all the posts myself whether or not I posted on the need for fiber. I can tell you in just a few words, however, that you donít Ďneedí any fiber. As far as Iím aware no studies have conclusively shown that humans require any fiber for optimal function. Itís another one of those vampire myths that just wonít die.


I know there are other references. As I find them, I'll post them.
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  #23   ^
Old Thu, Jun-07-07, 20:35
lisaz8605's Avatar
lisaz8605 lisaz8605 is offline
Taking MY Turn
Posts: 10,849
 
Plan: Intuitive Eating
Stats: 240/220.8/190 Female 65
BF:
Progress: 38%
Location: NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BawdyWench
I'm currently reading all of Dr. Mike's blogs, and he mentions numerous times in passing that he does not believe fiber is necessary, and could be harmful. I agree. For most of my years (since 1999) eating low-carb, I've eaten a lot of veggies, and hence a lot of fiber. Constipation became a HUGE problem for me. So I started taking supplemental fiber. STILL a HUGE problem.

Over the past year, I've dropped my veggie (and hence fiber) intake down to near zero, and ... voila ... no problems AT ALL with constipation.

I believe it was the famous Framingham Nurses Study that showed no advantage in any way from eating fiber. No weight loss, no reduction in colon cancer.

We each have to do as we see fit. For me, fiber is the enemy.

And all those "lovely" veggies and fruits -- according to Dr. Mike, most (all?) of the vitamins in them are fat-soluble, meaning if you don't eat fat with them, you're not absorbing any of the nutrients.


Thanks for allowing us to benefit from your reading, Bawdy.

I have to say that lowcarbing had definitely been a huge help in keeping me regular and I can tell a difference when I up the carbs too much. I recently discovered this all the more because, being pregnant, I was challenged with constipation, which came as a surprise since I'd been so regular. (It's one of those dirty little symptoms they don't tell you about - everyone's yapping about morning sickness, well let me tell you what to watch for! LOL)

I struggled with it a bit in the beginning, which was when I was trying to increase my carbs (long story, but I freaked in the beginning and tried to have more out of sheer principle because the whole LC/pregnancy thing can be so confusing). Recently I went back down to about 50 net per day and I enjoy what I call "just enough" of my fave veggies as sides (romaine lettuce, spinach, broccoli) and some berries. I don't go overboard and I always have the veggies with fat (LOVE that whole tip about absorbing nutrients that way). I also adore the berries with a bit of heavy cream...delightful. My point in all this is to say I'm back to being quite regular and not even feeling bloated. My symptoms are really great (granted I'm early in the process yet but everything's been mild for me so far) and I feel I have this WOE to thank for it. I didn't mean to hijack this thread per se, but I just wanted to share my experience. I figure if LCing with this approach to fruits and veggies can help me - challenged with hormonal-based constipation - then it's a sure thing for everyone!
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  #24   ^
Old Fri, Jun-08-07, 19:21
BawdyWench's Avatar
BawdyWench BawdyWench is offline
Posts: 7,356
 
Plan: IF & Keto
Stats: 205/193/170 Female 5'6
BF:Too much!
Progress: 34%
Location: Rural Maine
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With all the conflicting info, it's hard to know what to trust. Virtually everything the Eades write makes sense to me on so many levels.

It's so funny about people and low carb. The no-fat dogma has been drilled into our heads for so long, even those of us who know the low-carb way is the best way STILL sometimes fall into the trap of thinking we should cut the fat and up the carbs. I whole-heartedly believe that I don't need to eat more than a modicum of carbs (veggies/fruits), and yet sometimes I'm hesitant to say this out loud.

Strange.
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  #25   ^
Old Sat, Jun-09-07, 06:50
NothingNew's Avatar
NothingNew NothingNew is offline
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Posts: 30
 
Plan: Protein Power
Stats: 230/220/180 Male 68 inches
BF:
Progress:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BawdyWench
With all the conflicting info, it's hard to know what to trust. Virtually everything the Eades write makes sense to me on so many levels.

It's so funny about people and low carb. The no-fat dogma has been drilled into our heads for so long, even those of us who know the low-carb way is the best way STILL sometimes fall into the trap of thinking we should cut the fat and up the carbs. I whole-heartedly believe that I don't need to eat more than a modicum of carbs (veggies/fruits), and yet sometimes I'm hesitant to say this out loud.

Strange.



Do you remember that lady, what was her name? Is it Susan Powter? She was pretty popular 10-15 years ago I think. She would keep going on "eating fat makes you fat". She would tell people they could eat 50 potatoes or 1 slice of cheese. I wonder how she really kept thin; she certainly wasn't eating lots of potatoes!

Anyway, I think that having heard this low-fat mantra garbage from many sources over many years has it's desired effect on us all to one degree or another.
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  #26   ^
Old Sat, Jun-09-07, 08:15
BawdyWench's Avatar
BawdyWench BawdyWench is offline
Posts: 7,356
 
Plan: IF & Keto
Stats: 205/193/170 Female 5'6
BF:Too much!
Progress: 34%
Location: Rural Maine
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You are referring, of course, to Susan STOP-THE-INSANITY Powter. Yes, she lost a lot of weight. Yes, she looked pretty terrific. She may even have lost the weight on a low-fat/high-carb diet. Some people can and do. Some people can keep it off that way. Others can't. This doesn't mean it's a good plan, because we all know the harm that kind of diet can do to your long-term health.

Some people have a greater tolerance for carbs. I don't. Perhaps she did.

Dr. Mike did a blog on the phenomenon of repeating lies so often they start to be believed. Something about pounding a nail into a hard surface. If you just keep pounding, after a while it's going to get through and become part of you. Here's the link: http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=204
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  #27   ^
Old Sat, Jun-09-07, 08:16
lisaz8605's Avatar
lisaz8605 lisaz8605 is offline
Taking MY Turn
Posts: 10,849
 
Plan: Intuitive Eating
Stats: 240/220.8/190 Female 65
BF:
Progress: 38%
Location: NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NothingNew
Do you remember that lady, what was her name? Is it Susan Powter? She was pretty popular 10-15 years ago I think. She would keep going on "eating fat makes you fat". She would tell people they could eat 50 potatoes or 1 slice of cheese. I wonder how she really kept thin; she certainly wasn't eating lots of potatoes!

Anyway, I think that having heard this low-fat mantra garbage from many sources over many years has it's desired effect on us all to one degree or another.

Oh yeah, do I ever remember her! She was like anti-fat boot camp woman. The slogan, that I think applies to the utterly WRONG approach of "eating fat makes you fat" was actually from her...

STOP THE INSANITY!!

Remember? Yeah, I'd be curious to know what really worked for her. My theory is starvation, but I agree, I'm sure it wasn't all potatoes either.
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  #28   ^
Old Sat, Jun-09-07, 08:47
NothingNew's Avatar
NothingNew NothingNew is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 30
 
Plan: Protein Power
Stats: 230/220/180 Male 68 inches
BF:
Progress:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BawdyWench
You are referring, of course, to Susan STOP-THE-INSANITY Powter. Yes, she lost a lot of weight. Yes, she looked pretty terrific. She may even have lost the weight on a low-fat/high-carb diet. Some people can and do. Some people can keep it off that way. Others can't. This doesn't mean it's a good plan, because we all know the harm that kind of diet can do to your long-term health.

Some people have a greater tolerance for carbs. I don't. Perhaps she did.

Dr. Mike did a blog on the phenomenon of repeating lies so often they start to be believed. Something about pounding a nail into a hard surface. If you just keep pounding, after a while it's going to get through and become part of you. Here's the link: http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=204


Thanks for the link!

Did he ever explain what this big news was?

Michael R. Eades, M.D. says:
February 7th, 2006 at 10:22 am
Stay tuned. Big news breaking on this front that is embargoed until late this afternoon.
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  #29   ^
Old Sat, Jun-09-07, 09:07
NothingNew's Avatar
NothingNew NothingNew is offline
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Posts: 30
 
Plan: Protein Power
Stats: 230/220/180 Male 68 inches
BF:
Progress:
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Bawdy or Lisa,

Have you ever tried these green tea extracts?

http://www.proteinpower.com/product.php?id=17
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  #30   ^
Old Sat, Jun-09-07, 12:24
lisaz8605's Avatar
lisaz8605 lisaz8605 is offline
Taking MY Turn
Posts: 10,849
 
Plan: Intuitive Eating
Stats: 240/220.8/190 Female 65
BF:
Progress: 38%
Location: NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NothingNew
Bawdy or Lisa,

Have you ever tried these green tea extracts?

http://www.proteinpower.com/product.php?id=17

Nope, it's new to me! Very interesting. Of course right now I wouldn't go there, but it's something I'll consider in the future. Have you tried them yet?

P.S. I'm off to shoot a wedding in an hour, and then one tomorrow, so I might not answer again until Monday.
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