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  #1   ^
Old Mon, Feb-19-07, 15:13
hometeam's Avatar
hometeam hometeam is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 93
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 277/234/187 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 48%
Location: Middle Georgia
Default Dr. Michael Eades' views on fiber

I read his blog occasionally. About six months ago he blogged about how overrated fiber is. I keep hoping he will do a follow-up. He mentioned that the editors had them cut a full chapter on the subject from their original book.

I have tremendous respect for the Eades. But this is one subject in which it seems they are part of a VERY small minority.

I used to supplement with fiber tablets and flaxmeal....but I seem to do OK without them. I'm really perplexed on the issue.

Any thoughts?
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  #2   ^
Old Mon, Feb-19-07, 16:18
ElleH ElleH is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 10,352
 
Plan: PP/Atkins Maintenance
Stats: 178/137/137 Female 5'6"
BF:28%
Progress: 100%
Location: Northern Virginia
Default

I think fiber is overrated, too! I followed PP off and on for about 9 years and I always had to took fiber pills so I could "go."

Now that I do Atkins (and a very high fat version at that with 80% of my daily calories coming from fat) I "go" just fine, but not necessarily every day.

I believe, now, looking back, that I was under 2 misconceptions back then...one was that you have to "go" every day, or something is wrong, the second is that you have to place some limitations on your fat intake in order to lose weight. I've since learned that, at least for me, neither of those are true!

I have tremendous respect for the Eades, too. Especially since Dr A is gone, I look to them to carry on with the "fight" so to speak, even if I don't follow PP any more.
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  #3   ^
Old Mon, Feb-19-07, 16:45
CindySue48's Avatar
CindySue48 CindySue48 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,816
 
Plan: Atkins/Protein Power
Stats: 256/179/160 Female 68 inches
BF:38.9/27.2/24.3
Progress: 80%
Location: Triangle NC
Default

The only reason for looking at fiber content is to subtract it from the total carb count!!!

Personally it's fat that makes the difference. On low fat diets I have trouble, high fiber or not. On high (actually normal) fat diets I have no problems at all.
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  #4   ^
Old Mon, Feb-19-07, 18:10
ElleH ElleH is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 10,352
 
Plan: PP/Atkins Maintenance
Stats: 178/137/137 Female 5'6"
BF:28%
Progress: 100%
Location: Northern Virginia
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CindySue48
The only reason for looking at fiber content is to subtract it from the total carb count!!!



YEP!
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  #5   ^
Old Tue, Feb-20-07, 11:10
lisaz8605's Avatar
lisaz8605 lisaz8605 is offline
Taking MY Turn
Posts: 10,849
 
Plan: Intuitive Eating
Stats: 240/220.8/190 Female 65
BF:
Progress: 38%
Location: NY
Default

Agreed! I actually have plenty of fat while following PPLP and my regularity is great. I enjoy fiber filled foods just for what they are and not because they have fiber, though getting to subtract those carbs and how filling they are is a bonus!

My fat intake relates more to satiety for me, but if it also allows helps me stay regular, even better! If I did have issues "going" in the future, I'd be much more inclined to try some of the other suggestions out there in addition to upping the fat intake (I think magnesium and milk thistle were among the ideas). But I wouldn't reach for the fiber and flax anymore...at least not for that reason.
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  #6   ^
Old Tue, Feb-20-07, 11:42
jkmfrog's Avatar
jkmfrog jkmfrog is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 393
 
Plan: Protein Power
Stats: 215/164/158 Female 68 inches (5' 8")
BF:much/less/now :-)
Progress: 89%
Location: North Carolina, USA
Default

so I thought I'd use this opportunity to vent a bit. I work with someone who is diabetic, overweight, and is very interested in my weight loss. Her doctor put her on a lower carb diet, although the one the doctor reccommended is lower than the one she seems to be following, and of course the doctor's diet allows her to eat beans, corn, and red potatos (with some limits). She constantly remarks on my loss and we've talked about how her weight keeps goign up and its really a problem for her blood sugar, blood pressure, etc. I know that she wants to lose some of the weight. I've shared with her what I'm doing, what I'm following - although in a "here's what i'm doing" way not a "what you are doing is not working" sort of way. She stops me near the microwave or in the hall every couple of days to run her menus past me and ask if I think they are "healthy". sigh.

The most recent encounter was about fiber - she made a dish with tons of beans, ground beef, corn, and taco seasoning. I nodded a lot and told her I really did not eat any of those things, except the beef: that I make my own taco seasoning so it has no sugar, and beans have way too many carbs while I'm still trying to lose weight. Oh, she remarks, "I eat beans for the fiber and I have to have some sugar in my diet or my blood sugar falls too low...."

Of course I mentioned that with the fat and veggies in my diet I'd never needed addtional fiber. And that I don't eat sugar - unless its in the allowable carbs (yesterday I was eating gream beans with salmon) She looked at me like I'd lost my mind.

I want to offer my help, but these conversations always leave me feeling like I'm Alice having walked through the looking glass.

No need to reply - fiber has been on my mind and I've read Dr Eades comments on fiber with great interest - when I was a low fat/high carb vegetarian I was convinced that the rest of the world was headed to an early grave because they were not getting enough fiber. LOL.
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  #7   ^
Old Tue, Feb-20-07, 11:48
Kristine's Avatar
Kristine Kristine is offline
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18,014
 
Plan: Primal
Stats: 165/149/145 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 80%
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
Default

I'm a fiber skeptic, too. IMO, it's the phytonutrients in the higher-fiber foods that deserve credit for positive health outcomes, not the fiber itself. It seems like "they" credited fiber almost arbitrarily.

And for a rant of my own... I hate the colon-cleanse scam artists who are proclaiming that 80% of people "suffer" from constipation, and/or 80% of health problems can be solved by using our magical laxatives... or something ridiculous like that.

Last edited by Kristine : Tue, Feb-20-07 at 11:53.
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  #8   ^
Old Tue, Feb-20-07, 13:17
hometeam's Avatar
hometeam hometeam is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 93
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 277/234/187 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 48%
Location: Middle Georgia
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kristine
I'm a fiber skeptic, too. IMO, it's the phytonutrients in the higher-fiber foods that deserve credit for positive health outcomes, not the fiber itself..


Kristine, low carbers get their phytonutrients from veggies and peanuts, right? Anything else?


EDIT

Whoops, just found this from Dr. Sears:

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/4/T044200.asp

TOP TWELVE PHYTO FOODS
While nearly all plant foods contain health-promoting phytochemicals, the following are the most phyto-dense food sources:

Soy
Tomato
Broccoli
Garlic
Flax seeds
Citrus fruits
Melons: cantaloupe, watermelon
Pink grapefruit
Blueberries
Sweet potatoes
Chili peppers
Legumes: beans, and lentils
Honorable mention: green tea, red grapes, papaya, carrots, kale, nuts and seeds, eggplant, artichoke, cabbage, brussel sprouts, onions, apples, cauliflower, dried apricots, pumpkin, squash, spinach, mangos, and shiitake mushrooms.
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  #9   ^
Old Tue, Feb-20-07, 13:29
Laura W's Avatar
Laura W Laura W is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 598
 
Plan: Protein Power
Stats: 326/235/180 Female 6 ft.
BF:
Progress: 62%
Location: Coulterville, IL, USA
Default

This probably isn't the place to ask this, don't know where to post, but I have been wondering: If you add fiber like Benefiber to foods, say you make a shake, can you deduct that fiber? Any thoughts?
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  #10   ^
Old Tue, Feb-20-07, 14:04
jkmfrog's Avatar
jkmfrog jkmfrog is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 393
 
Plan: Protein Power
Stats: 215/164/158 Female 68 inches (5' 8")
BF:much/less/now :-)
Progress: 89%
Location: North Carolina, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laura W
This probably isn't the place to ask this, don't know where to post, but I have been wondering: If you add fiber like Benefiber to foods, say you make a shake, can you deduct that fiber? Any thoughts?


my understanding is no. The fiber itself is net zero carbs, you don't get to cross off the carbs in the calculation by adding fiber from another source.

At least that's what i've read. Any other viewpoints on this one??
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  #11   ^
Old Tue, Feb-20-07, 14:10
hometeam's Avatar
hometeam hometeam is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 93
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 277/234/187 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 48%
Location: Middle Georgia
Default

In many cases you'll be adding carbs. For instance 2 tsp. of Benefiber powder is 4g of carbs and 3g of fiber, net 1g carb.
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  #12   ^
Old Sat, Feb-24-07, 22:07
black57 black57 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 11,822
 
Plan: atkins/intermit. fasting
Stats: 166/136/135 Female 5'3''
BF:
Progress: 97%
Location: Orange, California
Default

I eat without any regards about getting enough fiber. I eat healthy food and I have healthy poops. The only reason I check for fiber is to adjust the carb count. Just like CindySue48
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  #13   ^
Old Mon, Feb-26-07, 12:32
lpioch's Avatar
lpioch lpioch is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 939
 
Plan: ProteinPowerLifePlan w/IF
Stats: 166/143/135 Female 62.5
BF:
Progress: 74%
Location: New England
Default Regarding the importance of Fiber...

Regarding the importance of fiber, I'm certainly not one to go with the general "medical" advice of nutrition (mostly because they seem to have it upsidedown).

But I don't think the ONLY value in fiber is "regularity", if you will. (which is the assumption being made by all the above posts)

I have a good respect for Dr. Scott Connelly's work as well (and I can't wait until getting to the gym regularly is PLAUSIBLE for me...I've tried twice and failed). It was from his "opinions" or "in-house evidence" (as opposed to research evidence?) about fiber that I still struggle to get a decent amount of fiber into my diet.

I'll quote from his book, "Body Rx", about his perspective of fiber. I don't think it can be completely discounted as being pure fluff. And since I don't think there IS much research behind it, maybe the "amounts" can be adjusted up/down from what is recommended. But I'll quote regarding the value of fiber:

"You may say, 'So what. I just read about a study that showed that eating fiber doesn't prevent colon cancer. Why should I eat fiber?' The answer is simple: Fiber burns fat. And protein and fiber together is the most powerful fat-burning food combination there is."

"Good carbohydrates such as fruits and vegetables are a great source of fiber, but most of us don't eat enough of them. (Many of us don't eat any.) I don't want to sound like your mom. So I'll put it this way: Eat your fruits and vegetables if you want to look better naked."
[...]
"In order to produce the energy that runs our body, our metabolic machinery burns glucose. So, you think, the more sugar, the better: I'm giving my body the fuel it craves. But our bodies did not evolve in a high-sugar environment. A little bit of glucose goes a long way. Too much glucose clogs up the metabolic machinery.
If we don't overwhelm the body with glucose-producing foods, the body turns to other fuel sources. One is fatty acids released by our fat cells. In addition, the body burns short-chain fatty acids made from fiber fermented in your intestinal tract. Notably, the burning of fatty acids from fiber stimulates the release of even more fat from fat cells, causing your rate of fat burning to snowball dramatically. This is the power of fiber, and that's why I want you to eat so much of it."
[...]
"While eating more protein will get you in fat-burning mode, eating more fiber will help keep you there." [...] "Why do we need so much fiber? When fiber is digested, it is fermented in the gut and converted into short-chain fatty acids, which can be burned for fuel. The burning of fatty acids from fiber sends a signal to your fat cells telling them to release fat, which your body uses for fuel."

Now, can I put a scientific study in front of you to prove this? No. Maybe they're out there, but I don't care to look.

What does this mean for me? I try very diligently to get a good amount of fiber in my diet. On Protein Power, it is a challenge, and I don't beat myself up if I don't get as much as Connelly recommends because I'm not (currently) following his plan. But what it does mean for me is that I try very much to eat my 7 to 10 grams of carbs in the form of fruits and vegetables (and a high-fiber tortilla a few times a week) so that I'm maxing out my possibilities. I think that's how it generally worked thousands of years ago.

I don't do it for regularity-sake (coffee in the morning works just fine, no matter how/what I'm eating!).
I do it because
1) If it DOES increase fat-burning, then YEA.
2) If it doesn't increase fat-burning, then I'm still eating more veggies and fruits than I ever did when I was not on PP.
Either way, I win.

My own personal guess is...the lower you keep your carb-intake, the less fiber is needed to achieve the above claims. (a nice scientific experiment waiting to happen!) But I find it hard to believe that our ancesters thousands of years ago did without fiber!

Last edited by lpioch : Mon, Feb-26-07 at 12:36. Reason: fix html
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  #14   ^
Old Mon, Feb-26-07, 18:28
CindySue48's Avatar
CindySue48 CindySue48 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,816
 
Plan: Atkins/Protein Power
Stats: 256/179/160 Female 68 inches
BF:38.9/27.2/24.3
Progress: 80%
Location: Triangle NC
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lpioch....not sure if I agree with this guy. I don't think any of us have a problem with getting fiber from fruits (low starch) and veggies, but adding fiber with supplements, is to me, a waste of money.

I personally do NOT think grains are required for good health. But good, fresh low starch fruits and veggies are definintly good....as long as they're not eaten to excess.
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  #15   ^
Old Mon, Feb-26-07, 19:12
lpioch's Avatar
lpioch lpioch is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 939
 
Plan: ProteinPowerLifePlan w/IF
Stats: 166/143/135 Female 62.5
BF:
Progress: 74%
Location: New England
Default

Connelly does not recommend fiber suppliments, but getting fiber from foods.
He is also definitely not as "low carb" as most low carb plans (although I haven't really compared with South Beach...that's the one book I have yet to read).

However, following PP and tracking my fiber, I noticed it was quite low (easily under 10 g) compared to "recommendations" from WHOMEVER. When I focus on fiber, I can follow PP and get my fiber up to 15 to 20 g a day. I would suspect most low carbers (not just PP) don't come close.

Are they going to DIE from it? I doubt it.
Can they not lose weight from it? I doubt it.
Can it be beneficial for them to up their fiber intake (naturally)? I personally think YES because i think our ancestors ate much fiber in their diets (easier to get things off of bushes and trees than to take down another animal from the hunt). My own speculation. But I don't think it is right to cast fiber off just because we can maintain regularity.

I really wish the Eades had left the chapter in about fiber.
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