I read somewhere on this message board that you can show ketones by burning the fat you consume rather then just body fat. Is this true? I understood ketosis to be the byproduct of using stored body fat for energy, and not a result of animal or any dietary fat being utilized. Does anyone have a definitive answer on this?

I've heard the same thing. I try to get around this by testing first thing in the morning, before I've eaten anything. This way, it was 10 hours past my last meal.

To the best of my knowledge, ketosis is the result of the liver being depleted of glucogon and switching to a fat cleaving process. Most of the cells switch from burning glucose to burning ketone bodies, resulting in ketosis. Neither your liver nor your cells know whence the fat came, whether it be dietary or stored.

Body doesn't care. This is largely why a person can be in ketosis, and not losing. LC will adjust the calories in - exercise = weight equation in favor of more calories, but there is an upper limit.

I don't know whether testing in the morning makes very much difference--how long does a ketone take to get from cellular metabolism to a bladder, anyway? But then, I haven't chosen to use the strips at all.

And the sticks only register one kind of ketones out of the 3 types (I think) that our bodies make when burning fat. I never showed any colour on those pesky sticks even when I was losing several pounds a week!

I think that the whole ketostix thing is little more than a distraction used by some authors to give people something very visible and short-term to focus on. I suspect the strategy is to let them feel they are accomplishing something on a day-by-day basis long enough for the habit of eating LC to take hold. Like all such games, it works with some and backfires for others.

When the liver begins to break down fat, it does not matter where it came from.

Dr. Atkins was always very firm when asked, that you MUST get dietary fat in your diet, and that a low-fat version of Atkins will not work.

If you get a positive reading on the Ketone test, what you are getting is not just a confirmation that some fat has been broken down. It is much more important than that. You are getting confirmation that your insulin levels have dropped sufficiently, your body has consumed most stored carbohydrate, and your body is making the switch over from carbohydrate metabolism (Dr. Atkins called it "glucosis") to a fat based metabolism (ketosis).

Worrying about where the fat came from misses the point. When you have a reading on the test strip, you are not STORING fat, you are BURNING it. Some of what gets burned will be dietary intake. Most doctors agree that the most body fat you can "safely" burn is about 1-2 lbs per week. So you will absolutely have to have dietary fat intake.

Eat enough protein that you have energy, but not so much that you stop losing weight.

Eat enough fat that you do not feel hungry.

That is the secret

Well I disagree. The ketone test is a very important and necessary tool, not just a "game".

The test will confirm that your body is able to switch over to a fat burning metabolism, or it will reveal that there is a problem.

In my case, it helped me to discover that blood pressure medicine I was taking prevented me from burning fat.

As far as the psychological aspects, it truly is a great motivator to see a purple ketone stick, because it is a tangible evidence of what is happening in your bodies metabolism.

I know there are some on this message board who do not like ketosix. Probably because they do not have the discipline to stay at a low enough carb intake. They can still lose weight without ketosis, but 40-50% of the weight will be lean body mass ... a very unhealthy situation if you ask me.

If it is so necessary, then why do many plans leave it out entirely. And some plans are specifically designed to avoid putting you in ketosis.

The "psychological aspects" you are referring to IS the game I was referring to.

One other aspect, both positive and negative, with ketostix is that they are very sensitive to your water intake. People love seeing a deep purple, but that almost always means not that they are burning lots and lots of ketones, but that they aren't drinking enough water to keep them properly diluted. So then you have the flip side, people that are drinking adequate water and more and then get frustrated because they can't get the stick to turn more than a pale purple. Any purple is good enough.

Well if you want to do other diets besides Atkins, feel free to do so. But people who are following the Atkins plan are following the most successful plan ever devised. No other diet has had the success that Atkins has.

And wether you like it or not, establishing Ketosis is the primary goal of the induction phase of Atkins. You do not say in your posts what diet you are following ... but I assume it isn't Atkins.

And what you say about water intake has not been true in my case. I personally always have a lot of fluid intake. But I still get dark purple after doing even mild exercise. It just isn't true. There is a lot of misinformation out there, but those who are REALLY following Atkins will be in Ketosis, and WILL get a reading on the Ketostix if they check it.

But are they dark purple first thing in the morning? That's when most people take their measurement. Not after exercising.

Why should I say in my posts what plan I am doing when it says up in the upper right corner of every post what plan I am on? I have no doubt that if I were to pee on a stick it would turn purple. So what?

Why would you assume I'm not doing Atkins? I never said one way or the other whether I believed you had to or should be in ketosis. That is a completely separate issue from whether you need to be peeing on a stick.

In response to the claim that the use of ketostix is necessary, I pointed out there are (low-carb) plans that take different stances not only one the use of ketostix, but on ketosis altogether. That is merely a statement of fact. If the ketosis and the use of ketostix were necessary, then all of those other plans could not work - not "wouldn't work as well as Atkins", but could not work at all. That is what it means for something to be "necessary". Since those plans do exist and they do work, it is demonstrable that neither ketostix nor even ketosis is necessary. They might be preferred. They might be optimal. But they are not necessary.

Like most people, when I first started LC I used the ketostix crutch. I never said that it was worthless, only that the primary effect for the vast majority of people is mental, not physical, and that it can backfire for some. Go through the journals and you will find a number of folks that were so obsessed with the sticks not turning a deep enough purple that even though they were losing weight they remained frustrated and then went bye-bye. You'll find others that finally realized that they didn't need to have their lives controlled by a sliver of wood and threw them away and continued progressing right on to their goal.

Most people get over the ketostix fad after their first box or two. A small handful keep faithfully peeing on them everyday. A tiny handful actually discover something useful that they wouldn't have otherwise.

I spend enough money on products relating to the toilet that I really don't see the need to spend more. My finances are such that I have to make choices, and I'd rather be buying supplements, or saving for retirement.

The plan's working for me. I eat an amount of carbs that works for me. Peeing on sticks is fine if it works, but I just am not interested in playing with body fluids, thank you, and it's not about discipline.

have at it if it works for you.

A bottle of 50 costs under $8 at Walmart. Elsewhere on the board here someone suggested you can cut them in half with scissors and get 100 tests.

$8.00 / 100 = .08 cents per day

.08 cents * 365 = $29.20 per year

If you cannot afford that, you are in pretty bad shape. Send me your address and I'll send you some Ketostix.

The cost argument doesn't fly with me

The reason I would assume you might not be doing Atkins is because you have a wishy-washy attitude about it:

" Well not all low-carb plans do not use below 20 carbs, so below 20 carbs is not really neccessary."

" Not all low-carb plans use ketosis, but they still work, thus ketosis must not be needed".

These types of statements would not come from someone dedicated to Atkins, they would come from someone who thinks they are smarter than Dr. Atkins was.

Dr. Atkins said below 20g was necessary to establish that your body was capable of getting into Ketosis, and to change your blood chemistry and metabolism.

People like you here on this board are encouraging others to abandon the principles Dr. Atkins fought so hard to establish. By telling people that below 20g is not really needed, Ketostix are not really needed, you lose the right to say that you are doing Atkins ... you are following your own opinions which have obviously come from numerous sources which contradict what Dr. Atkins taught.

I would like to encourage you to get back on the wagon mentally and get your attitude back in line with the REAL Atkins diet, before you fall off the wagon and slip into one of those "other low-carb" plans and ultimately fail.

At the very least, please do not discourage others here from faithfully following Atkins. There are people who come here who need support ... not excuses why they really do not have to follow the book. These people need to be told what to do, not given reasons to slack off.

If you are saying that I do not worship at the alter of His Holiness, Dr. Atkins, you are right. Atkins is not a religion (at least not for most of us).

You might have noticed that this board is not dedicated to supporting Atkins - it is for support and discussion of ALL (non-proprietary) low-carb plans.

That there are low-carb plans that do not follow every tit and tat of Atkins is reality. That many of those plans work effectively is reality. That many people find success on them that didn't find success on Atkins is a reality - just as is the fact that many people find success on Atkins that didn't find success on other plans. That someone is capable of recognizing reality and is willing to state it is not a sign of being wishy-washy, it is a sign of being objective and dispassionate.