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  #16   ^
Old Tue, Jan-29-02, 10:16
silence silence is offline
Pending Member
Posts: 48
 
Plan: atkins (was on sommersize)
Stats: 145/153/120
BF:
Progress: -32%
Location: canada, edmonton
Default cool!

i will do that! i am gonna go post a journal in the bootcamp, please come check it out some time
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  #17   ^
Old Tue, Feb-19-02, 14:28
Bloom Bloom is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,181
 
Plan: Dukan
Stats: 229/185/154 Female 168cm
BF:
Progress: 59%
Location: New Zealand
Default

I LOVE you guys!! You have ALL the answers!!
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  #18   ^
Old Wed, Oct-09-02, 17:05
valmommy's Avatar
valmommy valmommy is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 27
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 300/280/150
BF:Unknown
Progress: 13%
Location: Arkansas
Default Now I get it!!

Thanks so much for the links, they helped immensely!!! I'm showing this to my hubby asap - he's LC'ing because I am, but he doesn't "believe" in it to the degree I do
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  #19   ^
Old Wed, Mar-05-03, 11:31
Ruralgurl's Avatar
Ruralgurl Ruralgurl is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 437
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 225/190.5/150 Female 5' 7"
BF:
Progress: 46%
Location: British Columbia
Default Who Knew!

Wow I followed a path of links in others journals and found this post. Thanks everyone responsible!!! To be honest I had not even noticed the "Best of" forum before.
I had been sitting at 193 since the end of January. I started back on Atkins at the beginning of January. I had an initial loss of about 17 lbs, and then stalled! I did not worry too much about this as I am being patient and felt better, but when I took a look at my calorie intake at Fitday it appeared that I was not eating enough. I am not a calorie counter and I was not hungry at all and I was surprised that my intake was so low. I realized after reading this post that the only way to boost my calories was to get more fat. So that is what I did in the form of butter, olive oil, and heavy cream so far!
Now, I am just recuperating from some abdominal surgey last Friday but I weighed in at the hospital at 196
I am glad to report that this morning I weighed in at 187 . I will change my stats next week just to make sure, but I would like to report that I have more energy and I am feeling great.
Upping the FAT really has helped!
For anyone who thinks it would be the surgery, I am one of those people that usually gain weight at the hospital!!
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  #20   ^
Old Sat, Mar-15-03, 09:48
Rob's Avatar
Rob Rob is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 497
 
Plan: protein power
Stats: 168.8/157.9/130 Male 5 foot 2 inches
BF:33.1/27/20
Progress: 28%
Location: London
Default

ya know one thing that worries me about LCing is the constant battle to prevent constipation ( sorry I had to say it )


I take psyllium husk powder every morning with a protien shake and sometimes I add it to a high protien frostie

I t just strikes me that if I was not LCing I would not be worrying about this and it concerns me that I need to take the occasional senna tablets to go

does anyone relate to this ?

Last edited by Rob : Sat, Mar-15-03 at 09:50.
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  #21   ^
Old Thu, Apr-03-03, 07:46
lkonzelman's Avatar
lkonzelman lkonzelman is offline
The evolution of me
Posts: 9,402
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 273/182/160 Female 5' 4"
BF:
Progress: 81%
Location: Bryn Mawr, PA
Default

Watned this post to come to the front again!!!
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  #22   ^
Old Tue, Apr-15-03, 15:35
Groggy60's Avatar
Groggy60 Groggy60 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 486
 
Plan: IF/Low carb
Stats: 219/201/172 Male 70 inches
BF:
Progress: 38%
Location: Ottawa, ON
Default

My experience will LCing has made me more regular than I have ever been. From the beginning I set out to find some low-carb foods with fibre and I discovered pecans: low carb, high fibre, good fat.

My body's experience with fat follows what Doreen explaing earlier in this thead. It is how regular I have become, that makes me truly believe a calorie is not a calorie. Eat enough fat and some fibre to keep it moving and it seems to go right through you.

Last edited by Groggy60 : Tue, Apr-15-03 at 15:47.
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  #23   ^
Old Wed, Apr-16-03, 11:36
Rob's Avatar
Rob Rob is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 497
 
Plan: protein power
Stats: 168.8/157.9/130 Male 5 foot 2 inches
BF:33.1/27/20
Progress: 28%
Location: London
Default

you are very lucky , most people here have to use extra fibre in the form of psyllium husk .

I for one was constantly constipated . I think it is pretty common for people not to load up vegetables because they are so limited on LC eating and pretty boring too . Dont get me wrong , I love all veggies .

I just want to say that after a year of LCing I have decided to hang up my LC boots because it is just not working for me this time round .

I am dissappointed and frustrated because what ever I do the extra weight that I gained will just not come off . I have gained 10 lbs since Christmas .

I am now eating normally and intelligently where nothing is forbidden and I feel released from this prison .

Sorry to have to say that
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  #24   ^
Old Wed, Apr-16-03, 12:07
lkonzelman's Avatar
lkonzelman lkonzelman is offline
The evolution of me
Posts: 9,402
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 273/182/160 Female 5' 4"
BF:
Progress: 81%
Location: Bryn Mawr, PA
Default

Sorry you feel that way Rob but it sounds like you weren't eating the mandatory 2-3 cups of daily veggies.

I believe the Atkins induction phase has one of the lowest carb counts to be at and there are still so many veggies allowed daily.

Plus after induction you can increase the daily amounts. I believe the balance of fat, protein and healthy carbs is why I feel so healthy!

Now that I don't have to watch fat or calories a giant salad w/ good dressing is now delicious... unlike when I was low fat dieting.

I know because of my chronic lifelong weight issues I will always have to watch what I eat, but I find this diverse and healthy way to eat has opened my "prison" doors and now I eat happily to satisfaction everyday without guilt.

Just my perspective.

Last edited by lkonzelman : Wed, Apr-16-03 at 12:11.
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  #25   ^
Old Wed, Apr-16-03, 17:30
Rob's Avatar
Rob Rob is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 497
 
Plan: protein power
Stats: 168.8/157.9/130 Male 5 foot 2 inches
BF:33.1/27/20
Progress: 28%
Location: London
Default

have you had your serum lipids checked yet ?

I suggest you do . I had a shock after learning that my levels shot up while LCing in the early days . As I have a history of hypercholesterolaemia in my family , I got a real fright .

I was eating too much saturated fats and had to change my eating habits . After I gained that weight ,I found that whatever I did ,nothing would get the extra flab off .

I found for myself , in the early days that the only way I could loose was by doing LC and lower fat . I know this is contra to what you hear ,but I found that if I ate alot of fat , I actually put on weight . So in my experience and YMMV , I dont believe in the doctrine " eat fat to loose fat " .

I am just plain dissappointed and have given it all up for a fully balanced diet , not dependent on potassium and cal/mag tablets for my minerals and being terrified of constipation with its consequences.


Last edited by Rob : Wed, Apr-16-03 at 17:33.
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  #26   ^
Old Mon, May-12-03, 23:06
ysabella's Avatar
ysabella ysabella is offline
Don't Call Me Sugar
Posts: 4,209
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 293/287/230 Female 65 inches
BF: :^( :^| :^)
Progress: 10%
Location: Auburn, WA
Thumbs up I had mine checked

After four months lowcarbing, they are about the same, but my triglycerides and VLDLs are in the basement, baby.

And that's where I want them.
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  #27   ^
Old Wed, May-14-03, 06:58
last15 last15 is offline
New Member
Posts: 23
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 132/126.7/118
BF:
Progress: 38%
Location: Ohio
Default

ON the subject of fat changing its caloric output in the absence of carbs- does that mean a 1500 cal diet with 75-80 grams of fat is really only being seen by my body as 1000? Could that be what is causing some not to be successful- the "starvation" mode effect? What are some low carb snacks that will boost up the counts besides cheese and pork rinds? Also, I am on ediets, an online resource, that allows me to do the Atkins diet and still plans my menu for me- but it is keeping me at 1400-1500 calories on the induction phase- should I increase that to eliminate the chance of starvation mode? Also, the only veggies it allows me are ones that I have never heard of or wouldn't eat- any ideas? Today is day two for me and I actually lost 2 pounds of water weight overnight- this from a good digital scale that I use everyday so I know it is accurate! WooHoo

TTFN
Nannie
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  #28   ^
Old Mon, May-26-03, 17:56
justcindy justcindy is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 391
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 316/273/180 Female 68 inches
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: PA
Default

Wow, excellent thread, thanks so much for the info!!!!!
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  #29   ^
Old Tue, May-27-03, 01:33
stilt0 stilt0 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 11
 
Plan: Atkins maintenance
Stats: 136/146/150
BF:
Progress: 71%
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Default

Hello all,
Fascinating stuff about the way dietary fat CANT become body fat. Doreen and ... sorry, Andy I think.... you are a thrilling read.
I'm really curious about the people who stall on Low Carbing , even the people who keep their dietary carbs way low. So I've been doing a bit of reading myself about the way both protein and fat can be ( to varying degrees ) converted to glucose (ie. carbs) by :

(a) in the case of DIETARY protein: gluconeogenesis

and

(b) in the case of DIETARY fat : the glycerol pathway (I'm sure there's a noun for this, perhaps glycerogenesis ? - help!)

Gluconeogenesis is by far the more efficient of these two mechanisms , apparently , - up around 70 % ie. 1 complete protein gram= .7 of a gram of glucose


' glycero- genesis ' (sic) is apparently not nearly as efficient, something like 10 %. Looking for evolutionary ( or God motivated - if you're so inclined) reasons for this difference , it would seem that because ketones ( ie. the other way dietary fat is used metabolically) can provide all the energy needs of the body, including all but a very small amount of glucose required by the brain, you don't actually need ANY carbohydrates to be perfectly healthy. This is probably why dietary fat to satisfy energy needs and appetite is THE best way to lose weight ( and live a whole lot longer into the bargain, because insulin - the aging and body fat depositing hormone- is not asked to the metabolic party

So I wonder if the glucose provided by protein (gluconeogenesis) has exactly the same insulin ( and thereby body fat deposit) triggering effect as dietary glucose (carbs) For that matter glycero-genesis (sic) would be the same , but because it's so much less efficient , in the absence of dietary carbs, most of the resulting glucose would probably be snapped up by the brain , thus keeping it off your waistline!

The obvious implications of these gluconeogenesis and glycero-genesis factors for weight loss is that to a lesser extent than dietary carbs and to a far lesser extent than dietary protein, dietary fat provides very few metabolic carbs.

The human body is so clever at depositing fat ( with obvious survival advantages ). Except with dietary fat . Good news for people who want to lose weight. People who are fed up with the ' boring ' food choices on Atkins induction and are stalled in their weight loss anyway could try reducing their protein intake and doing more weights . The tissue building and rebuilding requirements of anaerobic (ie. weights) exercise snap up the available amino acids leaving fewer for gluconeogenesis. Aerobic exercise has countless cardiovascular benefits , not to mention the stress reducing effects. But as a way to lose weight it's like shutting the gate after the horse has bolted.
By the way, I for one, am really prone to being constipated . A daily teaspoon of psyllium husks will make anyone comfortably regular . The capsules are useless for the hard cases - like me. There just isn't enough fibre in them. Unless I suppose , you swallowed ten at a time - very expensive , surely!

So Doreen and Andy, make this unintelligble rave about gluconeogenesis and glycero-genesis (sic) accessible to all those stalled low carbers out there. Carbohydrate (glucose) is and always was the essential ingredient in putting on weight. But dietary carbs are not the only villain. Our bodies simply have more insidious ways of coming up with metabolic glucose.
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  #30   ^
Old Wed, May-28-03, 00:55
stilt0 stilt0 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 11
 
Plan: Atkins maintenance
Stats: 136/146/150
BF:
Progress: 71%
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Default

me again,
More reading, and no wonder I couldn't find the noun for glucose production from fat (or the glycerol component of fat anyway). Because this process is also called gluconeogenesis : ie. production of 'new' glucose from some non carbohydrate source. In the case of human metabolism , that means amino acids (protein) or fat.

sorry!

Can someone enlighten me about whether free fatty acids in the blood from dietary fat consumption are transformed directly by muscle cells into ATP for use as energy , or is there some prior conversion through gluconeogenesis to glucose which then is used for energy production. Where are the ketone bodies actually produced . In the liver? In the bloodstream? In the various other cells that need energy to function? Or perhaps all three? Come on , I need to know!

Also what actually triggers gluconeogenesis (from either fats or protein). Surely the rate varies as dietary carbs are restricted. Presumably energy needs (activity levels at the time) play a big role in determining the rate . And maybe while your body is adjusting to being a fat burner (from either body stores or dietary sources) -which I read somewhere can take up to 20 weeks , the rate is a lot higher . In other words what determines how efficiently free fatty acids in the blood will be used as ketone body energy factories . The efficiency with which body fat deposits are mobilized into free fatty acids must also play a really important role.

And even more importantly , can the glucose produced from gluconeogenesis from protein and fat be then stored back as body fat, with a little help from it's old friend insulin?

Does dietary protein, ie. amino acids in the blood, become glucose (via gluconeogenesis) . And do the muscle cells sort of digest themselves (again through gluconeogenesis) to provide energy for their brothers and sisters . Which cells get to go on doing the work and which get eaten by gluconeogenesis.

The mind boggles!

Can anyone enlighten me?

I'm convinced that properly understanding gluconeogenesis holds the key to why some punters stall with their weight loss , for seemingly no apparent dietary carb reason. So if you are stalled maybe the trick is to restrict protein intake a bit and up the fats, because gluconeogenesis is so inefficient with fat and comparatively much more efficient with protein. Indeed the trick with optimal health and effortless weight loss may not just be to cut out dietary carbs but to ensure that gluconeogenesis doesn't surreptitiously set up glucose factory in your body anyway and with it's nasty little friend insulin , scuttle all your best laid plans .

I suppose we could all just go back to calorie restricted 'food pyramid ' eating and spend the rest of our lives hungry and unhappy!

I don't think so.

cheers,
Stuart
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