The first post in the thread, "The real human diet is a totally carnivorous one" states:

"[H]umans were totally hunting peoples until the end of the paleolithic age. No paleolithic archeological dig has ever produced any food residues from vegetables. Chemical analysis of bones from the digs indicates they are the same composition as the African lion- thus, virtually no intake of vegetation. There were no 'hunter-gatherer' societies until the neolithic, even though some modern HG tribes still made and used typical paleolithic napped-stone tools. ... [P]aleolithic people were total carnivores and ate no veggies whatsoever."

Has anyone found any scientific research that SUPPORTS these claims? Has anyone run into any scientific research which supports the idea that human beings are carnivores (rather than omnivores)? Not personal annecdotes, not diatribes against veggies, but actual RESEARCH?

I don't know what the author means by the word "real", but prehistoric humans were omnivores. Here are several references that support this conclusion.

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Definition: vegetable: "A member of the vegetable kingdom; a plant." American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition; other dictionaries hold similar definitions.

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"The broad spectrum revisited: evidence from plant remains."

"[A] collection of >90,000 plant remains, recently recovered from the Stone Age site Ohalo II (23,000 B.P.), Israel, offers insights into the plant foods of the late Upper Paleolithic. The staple foods of this assemblage were wild grasses, pushing back the dietary shift to grains some 10,000 years earlier than previously recognized. Besides the cereals (wild wheat and barley), small-grained grasses made up a large component of the assemblage, indicating that the BSR in the Levant was even broader than originally conceived, encompassing what would have been low-ranked plant foods."

http://tinyurl.com/rvmpd

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The nutritional patterns of Paleolithic humans influenced genetic evolution during the time segment within which defining characteristics of contemporary humans were selected. Our genome can have changed little since the beginnings of agriculture, so, genetically, humans remain Stone Agers--adapted for a Paleolithic dietary regimen. Such diets were based chiefly on wild game, fish and uncultivated plant foods. They provided abundant protein; a fat profile much different from that of affluent Western nations; high fibre; carbohydrate from fruits and vegetables (and some honey) ..." (emphasis added)

"Paleolithic vs. modern diets--selected pathophysiological implications."
http://tinyurl.com/njq6c

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"Human subsistence patterns during the Late Pleistocene have been inferred principally from faunal remains preserved in archeological sites; from the uses of stone tools based on form, microwear traces, and organic residue analysis; and occasionally from preserved vegetal remains. Although it is recognized generally that Late Pleistocene human diets must have included a variety of plants and animals, the majority of the studies conducted to date have focused on large mammal remains and taphonomic arguments about the changing nature of human exploitation of those animals." (emphasis added)

http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/98/11/6528

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"Paleodietary analysis on the prehistoric population of El Hierro (Canary Islands)."

In order to deepen our knowledge of the dietary habits of the prehispanic inhabitants of El Hierro, we have determined bone strontium (Sr), manganese (Mn), magnesium (Mg), copper (Cu), zinc (Zn), and calcium (Ca) in 52 human tibiae (23 belonging to male and 20 to female individuals) buried in a single burial cave; in 21 modern individuals who served as controls; and in 11 bones of herbivores found at archeological sites of the Canary Islands. Results suggest that females consumed a more vegetarian diet, although site-corrected Sr/Ca ratio of both males and females speaks for a mixed-diet consumption."

http://tinyurl.com/qgwmm

That's all the research I have time for today.

Thank you for your information.

the diets of our pre-agriculture ancestors would have varied greatly by region. those in the temperate and polar climes would have relied more heavily on animals as a resource, whereas those in tropical regions would have been more likely to take advantage of available fruits and vegetables.

humans are carnivores with the ability to digest vegs fruits in survival situations
but we are not exactly omnivores, there is no need for plant food if we have meat enough

Just a few selected references for those that want them:

Aiello LC, Wheeler PE. The expensive-tissue hypothesis. Current Anthropol 36:199-221, 1995.

Blumenschine, Robert J. 1992. 'Hominid carnivory and foraging strategies, and the socio-economic function of early archaeological sites.' In: Whiten A. and Widdowson E.M. (editors), 'Foraging Strategies and Natural Diet of Monkeys, Apes, and Humans' Proceedings of a Royal Society Discussion Meeting held on 30 and 31 May, 1991. Oxford, England: Clarendon Press: pages 51-61.

Eaton, S. Boyd, Stanley B. Eaton III, and Loren Cordain. 2002. Evolution, Diet, and Health, In Peter S. Ungar and Mark F. Teaford. 2002. Human Diet: its origin and evolution. Bergin & Garvey, pp. 7-18.


Eaton SB. Fibre intake in prehistoric times. In: Leeds AR, ed. Dietary fibre perspectives 2 reviews and bibliography. London: John Libbey. 1990: pp. 27-40.

Eaton SB. Humans, lipids and evolution. Lipids 27:814-20,1992.

Eaton SB, Eaton SB, Konner MJ. Paleolithic nutrition revisited: a twelve year retrospective on it s nature and implications. Eur J Clin Nutr 51: 207-16, 1997.

Eaton SB, Eaton SB, Sinclair AJ, Cordain L, Mann NJ. Dietary intake of long chain polyunsaturated fatty acids during the Paleolithic. World Rev Nutr Dietet 83:12-23, 1998.

Ember CR (1978) "Myths about hunter-gatherers." Ethnology, vol. 17, pp. 439-448.

Hamilton III WJ, Busse CD (1978) "Primate carnivory and its significance to human diets." Bioscience, vol. 28, pp. 761-766.

Hiiemae K (1984) "Functional aspects of jaw morphology." In: Food Acquisition and Processing in Primates, eds.Chivers DJ,Wood BA, Bilsborough A; Plenum Press, New York, pp. 257-282.

Kuhnlein, Harriet V. and Turner Nancy J. 1991. 'Traditional Plant Foods of Canadian Indigenous Peoples: Nutrition, Botany and Use'. in 'Food and Nutrition in History and Anthropology' Volume 8. Gordon and Breach Science Publishers. 1991.


Lambert, J. E. 1998. 'Primate digestion: Interactions among anatomy. physiology, and feeding ecology.' Evolutionary Anthropology 7(1): 8-20.

Leonard WR, Robertson ML. Evolutionary perspectives on human nutrition: the influence of brain and body size on diet and metabolism. Am J Hum Biol 6:77-88, 1994.

Milton, K. Diet and primate evolution. Sci Amer 269(Aug): 86-93,1993.

Milton, K. 1999. 'A hypothesis to explain the role of meat-eating in human evolution.' Evolutionary Anthropology 8(1): 11-21.

Peters, C R. 1987. 'Nut-like oil seeds: food for monkeys, chimpanzees, humans, and probably ape-men.' American Journal of Physical Anthropology. Vol 73. pages 333-363.

Teaford, M.F. & Ungar, P.S. 2000 Diet and the evolution of the earliest human ancestors. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences USA 97 (25). 13506 - 11.


Ungar, P.S.; Teaford, M.F. The dietary split between apes and the earliest human ancestors.In HUMANITY FROM AFRICAN NAISSANCE TO THE COMING MILLENIA.Tobias, P.V.; Rath, M.; Moggi-Ceechi, J.; Doyle, G.A., eds. Florence, Firenze University Press, pp. 337-352, 2001.


Teaford, M.F.; Ungar, P.S.; Grine, F.E. Fossil evidence for the evolution of human diet. In HUMAN DIET: ITS ORIGINS AND EVOLUTION. Ungar, P.S. and Teaford, M.F.,eds. Westport, CT. and London, Bergen & Garvey, pp. 143-166, 2002.

Ungar, P.S.; Teaford, M.F. Perspectives on the evolution of human diet. In HUMAN DIET: ITS ORIGINS AND EVOLUTION. Ungar, P.S. and Teaford, M.F., eds. Westport, CT. and London, Bergen & Garvey, pp. 1-6, 2002.


Wehmeyer, A.S., Lee, R.B., and Whiting, N. 1969. 'The nutrient composition and dietary importance of some vegetable foods eaten by the !Kung bushmen.' South African Journal of Nutrition 5(4): pages 1529-1530

Wrangham Richard W. , James Holland Jones, Greg Laden, David Pilbeam, and NancyLou Conklin-Brittain 1999 'The Raw and the Stolen Cooking and the Ecology of Human Origins' Current Anthropology Vol 40, Number 5, December 1999

a good point.

being carnivorous doesn't, by definition, designate a species that strictly eats meat. carnivores primarily consume meat, but take advantage of available resources when meat is scarce. examples abound, but obvious ones include canines and felines; which are considered carnviores.

the interesting notion from that carnivore thread, to me anyway, is the suggestion that you can eat as much fat and protein as you want, and, as long as you keep carbs very very low (<5%, i.e., eat no fruit or vegetables) - your body fat will drop down to 15% (for guys).


I reallly like that idea, if it's true!

I've been trying to lose that last 20 pounds for 3 years now. (Well, not trying that hard, actually.). If skipping the vegetables does the trick, I'll be very happy. I just started, early indications are good, I've dropped a few pounds quite easily.

yeah that will help you lose the weight and even improve your health, but it could take several weeks before your body is fully adapted, so you could have less energy the first weeks

Wow, Paleoanth, thanks for all the references. Were these sources you used for a paper, or...? I'll have to take this post with me next time I go to the library.

Again, can you refer me to any research that supports this conclusion?

no i dont

i make my conclusions because ppl have more energy/better moods/better health on an all meat diet, check bears topic for ppl that tried the diet

Wesley,

People have said that about any form of eating that has been tried. Vegan groups will say that their members have more energy/better moods/better heath on a meatless diet.

The fact that some domesticated canines (whose evolution have been profoundly affected by human involvement in genetic selection) will eat whatever a human hands them, or root through garbage cans, does not prove that a HUMAN is a carnivore.

I have seen no evidence that nondomesticated canines or felines living outside of human settlements are able to procure and eat raw vegetation of any kind, with the exception of an occasional nibble of grass. However, if you have come across any research to the contrary, I would be interested in reading it.

are you asking for research that supports the conclusion that homo sapiens can sustain themselves on meat alone? if so, dr. vilhjalmur stefansson wrote about the inuit diet that consisted of nothing but animal products, and later took part in a well-known experiment in which he and another man ate nothing but meat for a year.

you can read some stefansson's work here and read the study conducted at bellevue here .

Lots of info from westonaprice.org:

http://www.westonaprice.org/traditi...an_cuisine.html
http://www.westonaprice.org/traditi..._americans.html
http://www.westonaprice.org/traditi..._of_africa.html
http://www.westonaprice.org/traditi...aborigines.html

And another about Dr. Price and his studies:
http://www.westonaprice.org/traditi...ary_wisdom.html