Hi Vgal,

It seems to me that in the last few months you posted about this exact same problem. You and I talked about your tremendously low self esteem and estimation of self worth. You don't seem to be improving yourself in that regard. Your outlook about body image is extremely unhealthy. You don't think therapy works and you aren't accepting the loads of compliments and support you are getting and now you want to sleep all the time and not eat......what do you want to hear?

I'd say if you refuse to do anything else, go get the damn boob job. I can't believe I am saying that. Save up or whatever and get it! I truly believe that after you have them you'll be happy for about 2 secs. and you'll be back wanting to change something else. You have problems coming from the inside, not the outside. Until you fix your mental perception, no boob job, lipo, etc. is ever going to change the way you value yourself. I am sorry this may be sounding mean, but all the compliments and sweet talk aren't getting through. Go get your boobs and hopefully it will miraculously transform you into the goddess you think boobs make. Personally I think you need a really good therapist, and if the therapy hasn't worked in the past you are seeing the wrong one.

I think you write like a very intelligent woman and I really can't believe the garbage you feed yourself (intellectually speaking). I'll offer another compliment in that I think you are a fantastic woman, worth dating and definately getting to know, but that isn't going to change your mind is it?

Go do what you need to do sweetie and I truly wish you the best.

Take Care
Leanna

Actually, it sounds more like depression. I'll echo the "see your doctor" sentiment because I've been there. It's hard to see things as they REALLY are when your brain chemistry is wacko.

Loss of appetite, sleeping more (or less) than usual, thoughts of "why should I f-ing BOTHER?" are all symptoms that shouldn't be ignored.

I don't mean this in any mean way whatsoever, but I really think you're getting some sort of payoff from the negativity as well. If you feel like you've already LOST, then you don't have to try anymore, do you?

Finding excuse after excuse why the "right" man would never want you, and chasing after a "bad boy" who will NEVER return your feelings, as he's already made clear, is also a really handy way of never making yourself truly vulerable to someone else. Ditto ruling out a potential partner because they don't measure up to some inflated standard of good looks.

Perfect people only exist on the movie screen and the airbrused pages of a magazine. Jumping into the real world of accepting other people and YOURSELF flaws and all is scary stuff, but hiding from it under a pile of excuses and negativity is a sure way to spend life miserable.

I'll be leaving this subject alone now, but I really do hope you find a way to look past the surface to the really important stuff.

As a little girl in the children's burn ward said on a picture that my ex saw when he was visiting a friend in San Antonio.. "You don't see love with your eyes, you see it with your heart."

I'm sorry if I bothered anyone.

Vgal,
We don't know what you want us to tell you! You have been remarkably cheerful and upbeat as most of us have told you how wrong you are in your perceptions of what people want from each other, and how we think of each other. I am impressed that you didn't react with anger. Yet, clearly you don't hear us either. You even go to other boards and bring up the same discussions, getting the same kind of responses.

Clearly we are all just expressing opinions, and you don't have to believe anything that anyone here tells you. But I have to tell you I am not going to buy into your views of the world either.

I wish I had something to say to you that would make you a happier person. But at this point I don't even know what it is you want to hear. Do you? Maybe it is chemical. Maybe you are suffering from depression, so that no amount of talking or psycho therapy will help.

Here is a site that may help you decide. I don't mean to be insulting by suggesting this. I personally don't believe that there is anything wrong in seeking help. And I fully realize that I may be flat out wrong. On the other hand if you need help I hope you will seek it.

http://www.firelily.com/support/dep....selfcheck.html

If you are so shallow that all you want in a mate are good looks, then that is hopefully the kind of person you will attract. I have not found my true love yet, but I date a varity of men, none of then because of what they look like, all of them because the are fun to be with.

You havn't bothered anyone. I am just concerned that none of this is helping. Please don't pout...everyone here is concerned and don't know how to help you. We are here for venting...come on....we've all been there. Depression and meds and therapy for me. I get it....we just want you to get it. Sorry if you are offended. Good Luck and I hope you get the help you need.

Take Care

Leanna

P.S. 7 pages of responses sound like a whole lot of people in your corner to me

Hey VGAL!

I'm a guy that's spent the majority of my life being superchunk. I always felt that the women that I wanted weren't interested because of that, but looking back, I can see a lot of opportunities that arose with those wonderful ladies... even some that were MUCH too pretty to be interested in me... but, because I was so down on myself, I torpedoed those chances and, in many cases, even hurt the friendship that I did have with them.

When, for a few years, I lost a bunch of weight, I was feeling so much better about myself and I was so focused on doing things that made me happy, I was involved enough in the present to be aware of and enjoy the attention of some wonderful ladies. Rather than being trapped in a future of what might happen, I was focused on enjoying each moment, because I wasn't stuck despising myself.

Go fig. I'm trying to get back to that feeling again. I'm SO depressed. It's depressing.

As for women that I'm into, I've dated women that were everywhere from average/athletic weight to overweight. I don't think that I've ever met a lady and thought to myself, "She sure is great to be around and I love talking to her, but she'd do well to skip that bagel." All of those women (at least to start out with, a couple of them turned out to be NUTTERS) were a joy to be around, and they ranged in appearance, but in my mind, I see all of them as beautiful and cannot make a subjective distinction except in personality. (I'm not sure that made sense, but it's something of a complicated emotion that I'm trying to express.)

Fact is, I was more fun to be around because I was enjoying my life as it was and that made me more attractive. And I was and am much more attracted to people that are fun to be around.

Granted, walking down the street it's hard not to notice a woman whose boobs are hanging out, but I'd much rather see a smiling face than a tight sweater.

I have been feeling depressed lately...not a usual for me, and as I explore what I am feeling and I have been sort of wondering if some of it has to do with self accpetance, I work so very hard at losing weight, I do fine for awhile and then it stops and I get frustrated and this time NOTHING has worked and now I am gaining weight, I don't feel well physically or emotionally, and thru it all I keep asking why I can't just accept myself as I am? and for some reason I do not feel acceptable, and honestly I don't really know what would make me feel acceptable, the flip side of it is that I cannot afford to gain weight and for health reasons I really do need to lose at least 20 lbs more, I guess I would just love it if something, just one thing, one time could be easy :-P

Vgal,
I'm not bothered by your post either. If I was I would be posting.

I don't understand depression to well. But I do understand insecurities. We all go through it sometime or another. And no one's perfect. My husband, is also really smart but he never felt like he was really good looking. To me he's very good looking but some may not think so. I'm sure there's men out there that do think your beautiful, like Fake Name said. But you aren't noticing it. Because your remembering the bad that some people had told you. I hope you can get pass that. But there will still be people here for you. You can always send me a message in my journal if you want to write me your welcomed to.

Tazzione,
I'm sure it does. I was feeling depressed before I found out I was pregnant, I had major sweet tooth & I was gaining weight it seemed the more I tried, the hard it became. Plus business wasn't going well. And I knew my mortgage was fixing to go up another $300.00.

Just don't give up maybe you ought to try another low carb plan.

I hate to suggest this to you, but maybe it would be better if you distanced yourself from these people. I'm not sure if they are deliberately unkind, or if they think they are being funny. I've had to cut my relatives out of my life, for some of the exact same issues. Just know that you are not at fault and you need to surround yourself with kind loving supportive people because you are worth it. Judy

First of all, I’m not mad at anyone for simply trying to help me and expressing their opinions. This is America! In this country we have a certain inalienable right to say what we think and feel. Even when it comes to me. I was away from my computer yesterday to attend my cousin Connie’s college graduation. Quite the busy year for us! She’s funny, at my post grad party, I had games and prizes for people as thank you’s for coming to my ceremony and then she did the same sort of thing too for her party. Then, I’m such the trendsetter here, she had tossed some graduation confetti – little silver stars and coloured graduation caps and I licked and stuck a few of the stars and a red cap on my cheek and she decided to copy me. I told her, “You’re always trying to be me.”

What a joke! She’s one of my closest cousins, she’s two years older and actually my third cousin but we were raised together and spent whole summers with each other. There were a few years when she was married when I didn’t really like her that much, but now I like her much more. She’s divorced and attained her own identity. I’m Lucy to her Ethel. The eternal troublemaker and my loyal sidekick. Her daughter is named after me, although she claims she just liked the name.

I appreciate everyone’s concerns and support. 7 pages DOES sound like alot of people in my corner which a very nice feeling. Thank you. I don’t like to tell people about me. In my real life, I rarely if ever confide in people what’s going with me. I’m of the “never let ‘em see you sweat” mentality. That’s how my mom is. Most of my friends don’t know my history and even most of my relatives would never guess what I’m going through. To them, I’m cheerful and helpful and endlessly optimistic and supportive. It's nice to have a forum where I can go and speak my concerns and share my experiences with people who have similiar issues or have a common ground - FAT. I don’t ever want to be the BITTER friend who never has anything positive to say or only has negative comments to contribute. My mother is also like that, although now she’s in her menopausal years, the hormones seemed to have evened her out. Ironic, she’s a MUCH nicer person now than she ever was before. She’s much softer now. I don’t like to bother people with my troubles, particularly when I have so many people in my life that seem to have more pressing issues. Babies and marriages and life and death crisis, etc. Truth be told, I feel alternately miserable and downright stupid and downright miserable for feeling stupid complaining how unattractive I am or how unloved I feel when there is true misery and suffering in the world. Carver could potentially be facing a masectomy and here I sit crying about being flat chested. Boo hoo hoo! Big fucken deal. It’s ridiculousness. I’m getting to the point where I’m sick of myself, I don’t how I can expect other people to tolerate me.

I don’t want or expect anyone to tell me empty words just what I want to hear. I don’t know what I want to hear. The only thing I want is a guarantee that my implants will come out perfectly. Can any of you promise me that? I didn’t think so. Everything else is just nothing. I don’t think anyone on this board has ever tried to sell me a bill of goods and I appreciate that. I also appreciate different perspectives and try to add them to the mental rolodex of my brain. I try to remain optimistic even during this rough patch, but I’m just not shaking it and its starting to wear me down.

For the record, I’ve tried Paxil, Prozac, Wellbutrin, Effexor and Lexapro. None of them were effective.

I don’t consider myself “shallow” as I am selective and know the “type” that I like. I’m honest enough to admit that. I don’t see that as a problem. I ONLY apply this way of thinking to dates, not to anyone else in my life. Like I’d never discriminate someone for being “unattractive” from being a friend. Looks have NOTHING to do with how I choose to spend time with someone. Looks, however do affect how I see a potential “partner”. I would never ask of someone something that I couldn’t deliver myself. Hence, that could be my problem – how can I expect to attract ANY sort of man when I’m not at the point I consider myself good enough? Also explains why I’m still single. And why I'm better off alone.

FakeName, thank you for sharing your experience. It’s nice to hear a man’s OP on this topic. I do believe men have a slightly easier time though because I see plenty of men with gorgeous women who are not SuperStuds. I think only SUPER attractive men get to be "rightfully" selective, they have the freedom to move around the scale and choose. I don’t know anymore. I don’t even care at this point anyway. Too much energy is needed to bother. Depression is cyclical, once you get in the whirlpool of it, you can get stuck. I don’t ignore opportunities (and there aren't any) so much as I avoid them. I know there are situations I won’t be meeting anyone to my liking so I won’t go or won’t bother trying to look good. I’m now at the lowest maintenance stage of my life ever. Hair and makeup, who cares? Why bother? Why not just wear checkerboard Vans and be done with it?

I love term SuperChunk. I am SuperChunk too! And if I don’t stop eating chocolate I will be SuperDuperChunk soon!

Taz, I agree with Josie maybe you should try a different approach to dieting. Sometimes that is just the kick your metabolism needs! Other than that, exercise more. The endorphin rush will help you over the hump in all aspects! Good luck. I hear you on the self defeat. Don’t give in. It's a long hard road.

Vgal,

I've faced very similar feelings in the past. I also didn't trust therapist at first and the drugs didn't work either. However, a simple question about my past triggered some hidden memory and I realized that there are things inside my psychic which prohibits me from having a positive body image and self-esteem.

I went to a new therapist and with her help I finally dig deep enough to find out what was really wrong with me. It's been almost a year now and almost everything and I have gained a new outlook on life, a new appreciation for my body, and currently I'm loosing a pound a day.

If you're not diagnosed with clinical depression, and you still have these negative feelings about yourself, you may have a hidden trauma or issues which you may not even realize yet. A good therapist specializing in trauma may help you find out what's really going on inside your mind. I would strongly recommend that you give therapy a try again, and double-check with your doctor that you don't suffer from clinical depression. Best of luck to you.

Aegis Mode,

I had a really nice/great therapist last time around. I totally felt comfortable with him and for the first time in my life I was completely honest with someone about how I felt and what I was going through. To look at me is to believe I'm someone who has their life altogether, the reality is I have to stop myself from taking 25 Vicodins every evening and welcoming the great, deep sleep.

I began to rely on my therapist far too much and I didn't like feeling dependent on someone, particularly someone I couldn't have a relationship with and I didn't have access to every minute of the day. I needed to be able to stand on my own two feets. He became a crutch for me.

The other thing was while he was very supportive and helpful in assisting me through a few difficult events in my life at that time, I soon realised the bigger pressing issues weren't going to go away simply from talking about it. Words were not a cure to what ails me. I'm a good talker, I can talk the talk and walk the walk and you'd never guess otherwise. But what good does it really do me?

Maybe I'm ignorant here. I don't claim to know everything about psychoanalysis/therapy, etc. But I have a physical problem, how is TALKING about it going to change it? Perhaps someone who's experienced this could elaborate?

I don't have a traumatic history, although I wouldn't say my childhood was idyllic in any way. I saw some things I wouldn't want my "kids" to see (and unfortunately a few of them are), but all in all I had a good life. But I wasn't abused, I wasn't molested, I didn't have a horrible life-altering accident. Rather normal, average, everyday dysfunctional; even at its worst. Nothing out of the ordinary.

I do believe in the power of therapy (within reason) but it has its limitations and I refuse to try relying on drugs again. Besides you can't drink when you're on anti-depressants and I ENJOY drinking far too much. And don't go assuming I'm an alcoholic, I prefer "lush", thank you very much. Besides the harm done to your liver from taking drugs..... might as well drink the extra glass of wine, etc. At least you get to enjoy the damage done.

Oh, and how does one get tested for "clinical" depression as opposed to just regular depression? I was informed that is no blood test or other physiological means to test for a chemical imbalance. That was the biggest frustration of all - Hey, we SUSPECT you have a chemical imbalance and while we're trying to figure it out by trial and error because we have absolutely NO CLUE how to determine exactly what's going on in your brain, we're going to give you any number of anti-depressant drug cocktails to narrow it down to ONE possible medication combination and by the way, it will take 4-6 WEEKS to have an effective noticeable change in your serotonin levels, of course if it doesn't work, then we have to start all over again with a new drug and plan of action..... My god, by the time they figure out you need 10mg or 50mg or 110mg of Prozac, Paxil, Wellbutrin, etc. you've probably killed yourself simply from overwhelming frustration levels and are in debt from having spent hundreds of dollars in the process to still feel exactly the same you did when you started......

Forbes did a VERY interesting article on the business of pharmaceuticals and the misdiagnosis (and misappropriation) of anti-depressants. Changed my whole opinion of them, besides having my own personal experience to begin with.

Vgal,

Therapy for me is a way to know myself and to have a dialog with myself. It helps in the way that it allows me to confront my own weakness and problems and forgive myself. It changes the way I see the world, thus the way I do things; to others, and to myself. That's not just simple talking.

It does sound like that you can indeed talk a good talk, but to walk the walk you have to believe in it. Your replies sounded like you didn't believe in the talk, so I won't say you'd walk the walk. It takes personal conviction to do things for yourself, and sounds like you were just listening and do things based on what other tells you, and that didn't work for you.

Not knowing much about what you've been through, all I can say that even though you seemed to have attempted a lot of treatment, you've always found a way or reason to distance yourself from them in your own mind. When I was doing this I realized that I was scared of becoming better, in fact addicted to being self-critical and self-depreciating. It was comfortable blaming myself for everything and ask others to see how bad I was, when I really wasn't that bad. I had to dig really deep to find the real reason why I was doing this, and it took me over 10 years to come to this point in my life.

Trauma or hidden issue does not need to come from extreme hardship like abuse or accidents; it could be very simple things, but for that particular person it was especially scaring. It could be careless action of a parent which may seemed normal to anyone else, but to a particular child it may have left a deep scar. It happens all the time; sometimes people get over them, sometimes they leave the scar and hide it. Most of the time, those who hides tend to forget about them, but the emotional block continues well into adulthood, and translate into illogical actions or emotional response. Maybe people deeply hate themselves for reasons unknown, and purposefully create the enviroment or the body they know they would react negatively to. From what you're telling me, Vgal, you seemed to fit that mode very well. I just hope you have the courage to dig deep into the most vulnerable part of yourself and see what's there, and maybe you'll be surprised at how simple it is to overcome it and start feeling great about you and your life.

I can sense that you're really a great person inside, but you put this huge defensive wall to protect youself, even from potential help. I don't know what a stranger like myself could say to help you see through this, but I wish with all my heart that one day you may discover a trigger which will help you dismantle all your instinctual defenses, discover the internal source of your pain, and rid of it once and for all. Once the block is gone, you'll see how easy it is to love yourself and improve all aspect of your life. Best of luck to you.