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  #1   ^
Old Mon, Mar-20-06, 09:09
lynnp's Avatar
lynnp lynnp is offline
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Posts: 4,072
 
Plan: My Version of M/E
Stats: 284/000/140 Female 65 inches
BF:54%/49.5%/25%
Progress: 197%
Location: Rhode Island
Default Meat and Egg Life Program

This is a thread to continue the amazing support and family group known elsewhere as the "Meat and Egg Fast". The thread was originated in the TDC and moved to Tips and Stalls, but is being restarted here since so many of us look at this as a long term life program for health and fitness. Below you'll find the Kimmer experiment where this was begun, but many have modified the program to individual needs. This started as a 3-5 day WOE to get into ketosis, but has evolved into a life program and is followed in variety of ways and time periods.

This is a thread for those who wish to participate in making meat and egg their program for a little or long period of time. It is a place for support and guidance and we strive to keep it a very positive, family-type setting. All sizes and shapes are welcome, just please keep it positive and post in the spirit of the group that loyally post here daily.

The basics of the Experiment and Kimmer’s Experience

The purpose of the "experiment" is to show how 'real' ketosis feels ... no appetite, excellent weight loss. That the carbs are very, very low or 0 is key. This is what Dr. A was talking about in Induction! When we severely restrict carbs, our bodies (who DON'T want to use body fat for energy!), will go to the glycogen in our livers. When that's used up (3 days roughly), it's like a flood gate is opened and our bodies give up a lot of extra water ... that's the 3-7 pounds people lose in the first few days. Actually I did Stillman's for 3 days to get into ketosis ASAP (I am deathly afraid of being hungry!) The difference between this "experiment" and Stillman's is picking any protein you like ... Stillman's is "lean" only. Then I moved onto Atkins Induction and stayed for 6 months (<20 carbs, no 'treats') and with zero appetitite, I was fine eating relatively few calories. However, if I were going to do it today, I would have stayed on Stillman's the whole time ... easier, less cooking/shopping, faster. The quantities of veggies I was eating wasn't enough to seriously contribute nutritionally ... IMO, of course. The downside for many would be boredom, but I'm not bored at all losing 4-7 pounds a week!

Kimkins is what someone termed how I lost my weight ... my version of Atkins: · <20 carbs (no fiber subtraction) · 70-90 gm protein, · just enough fat to make your menus work absolutely no LC treats! Some people have never experienced what I term 'real' ketosis with the strong appetite suppression (OK, nausea) and very rapid weight loss. This is a chance to see what it's like.
Warning - not everyone likes the feeling, even if you're losing faster than scientifically possible (per the 3500 calorie deficit = equals 1 pound theory). I lost 160 pounds in 7 months, then took 3 months to do the last 20. Over the past 3 years I've lost a few more to equal 200 lbs total.

The idea of the 3 day experiment is to show what 'real' ketosis feels like. Keep in mind that if someone is carbed-up (especially if they do it on purpose), they may need 5 days to get rid of the excess glycogen in their liver. After you're in ketosis, GRADUALLY slip into the LC program of your choice. Naturally, the fewer carbs the better the loss. Lower calorie choices will provide faster loss than higher calories. BUT ... you want to make it livable for your lifetime. Any of us can fall back on pure protein to make up for a lax weekend. You're harming your body when you assault it with sugar (carbs) ... which, chances are, aren't coming from nutritious, high antioxidant sources ... more like good 'ol comfort food.

For the 3-5 days, skip the extra fats (cheeses). When you begin switching to a LC plan, watch the cheese as the calories really add up. Yeah, dairy sounds innocent but the choices on LC are essentially fats with double the calories of protein or carbs. I love cheese, sour cream, cream cheese, heavy cream and butter as much as the next person, but at 100 calories per miniscule serving ... Keep in mind that calories count, not just carbs. It's possible to eat only 17 carbs if you ate 3 cups of mayonnaise (ewwww!) But check out that 5000 calorie count! And that wouldn't even include the protein you'd eat throughout the day (not that you'd want to eat anything after downing a glass of mayo, LOL!) uick!

Eat as much as you like, drink as much as you like and absolutely use protein as a snack! I like steak chunks, tuna salad or fresh hard boiled eggs (don't like 'em cold ...) They have .6 per large egg. Eggs are actually two thirds fat!

During my weight loss phase I counted every carb ... eggs, coffee, tea, diet soda, cheese ... all the "little" ones because they sure add up fast! For purposes of this experiment, skip the .6 carb count.

What to Expect

People who are on Day 3 and haven't lost, you may be the few that need to go 5 days to deplete your glycogen (think back to what you ate before you started the 3 Day). The weight loss will come, and impressively. Other 'slow' losers, wait one more day, when you see the big WHOOSH (like others have posted), then you know the glycogen is gone. And we should keep in mind digestive issues ... Ahhhh, that's the thing! If you were at 20-30 carbs, then give it 1-2 more days. When you see the 2 lb WHOOSH, you're on your way! Interesting trivia is that on this BB, the largest percentage of people who 'stall' after Induction are at 25-30 carbs. You will lose even more if you're exercising (you'll also achieve ketosis faster because your body is yanking the glycogen out of your liver!) It's a good thing!

Using the Experiment as a benchmark Reminder ... weigh yourself on Day 2. If you've lost more than 3-5 pounds, you were over on carbs before. Keep in mind that if you lost 3+ pounds in the 3 days, you were over on carbs before ... something to keep in mind when picking carb choices!

Note to the 'hungry' folks. This is a sure sign that you were over on carbs before. Everyone keep in mind that your body DOES NOT want to convert to body fat for fuel! Your body always wants to take the easy route, which is sugar (carbs). This is why when people first do Induction (or this 3 day thing), they feel tired, cranky, have cravings ... their brain is sending a HARD message that it wants fuel, NOW.

Those who stick with Induction without caving in are rewarded with ketosis, weight loss and reduced appetite ... their bodies have SUCCESSFULLY converted to burning body fat! Now, those folks who 'relax' on weekends send their bodies back to Square 1 and cravings. These are also the people who 'feel better' after eating carbs and mistakenly think their bodies 'need them'. Wrong. Their bodies wanted sugar and they obliged ... vicious cycle. That you're still hungry on Day 3 would tell me that you were "over" on carbs before you started and your body is still processing them. Your glycogen isn't depleted yet. Wait 2 more days, check your loss and wait for the appetite suppression.

How much to eat

Don't eat until you get hungry (mildly hungry, don't wait until you're starving!) Don't count calories, don't cut back on quantities ... EAT if you're hungry I got 2 PMs from people who are "hungry". EAT!!! Snack on more HB eggs, make an omelette, fry up a steak, throw some chickie pieces on your Foreman grill ... eat! The appetite suppression is coming, honest! Don't cave in with a "taste" of carbs. You'll be back at square 1. Again. Don't worry about the protein/glucose conversion. Want proof? Look at how much you'll lose in 3 days. . if you're hungry, eat! Just avoid ANY and all CARBS! no cheese! Protein only!

Liquids

Drink what your body tells you. I find that I'm more thirsty in ketosis (and I've noticed others posting the same on this BB). Don't force liquids, drink what you need. If you're keeping with ONLY protein & NO carbs, yes, drink diet soda until your eyes fall out of their sockets.

Foods to eat and foods to avoid

Eat eggs until they ban you from the store, LOL! Eggs are an incredible, edible food! Your "pizza" is perfectly fine. Watch for an appetite change when you wake up tomorrow ... remember, no carbs! If you can, skip the mustard and soy sauce for now. If you can't, use the least amount possible. I'd avoid the pork rinds, they're very high calories and you can snack away more than you intended, LOL! Don't worry about the carbs in the eggs ... those are the 'innocent' ones that come naturally with protein. Yes, use the fat you normally use for cooking. I wouldn't suggest "extra" fats as in whipped cream or cream cheese because they tend to end up as high calorie desserts ... appetite or not!

Ketosis and the Sticks

Hey, don't rely on the sticks to tell you if you're in ketosis (stick addicts won't be able to help themselves, LOL!) Check your scales! If you've lost weight (and I'm thinking 4-5 pounds or more ... yes, water weight, but who cares!) ... you're in ketosis!

Bathroom issues

I don't like the side effects of laxatives (cramping, working "too well" if you know what I mean, LOL) and I've found that milk thistle has an excellent laxative effect ... perfect, actually. I take milk thistle as a spectacular liver protector! In European hospitals, the ERs administer milk thistle for those who have eaten poisonous mushrooms (apparently it's a fairly common situation). I would imagine they use huge doses, but the point is that the people don't die. Milk thistle actually helps repair liver tissue! I buy a big 180 capsule bottle at Wal Mart for $14 and I take 4 a day (2 & 2). Do a web search for info (and no toxicity!)

What to do after the Experiment

After the 3 days, you can either stay on protein ... or transition to Atkins Induction (or whatever program you're following). You need to keep your carbs very low after the 3 days or you'll get out of ketosis! From a health standpoint, you would be OK as long as you take supplements to compensate for the veggies/fruits you aren't eating ... ditto on straight Atkins or Stillman's. You want to begin adding veggies when you're within 20 pounds of goal so you can practice making food choices and not be overwhelmed After the 3 days you can decide what you want to do: 1) Continue on protein & naturally occurring fats until close to goal 2) Begin adding SMALL servings of very low carb veggies 3) Go to Atkins Induction (but depending on your definition of "Induction", this can backfire!) Yes, more than 3 days is fine. Be sure to take a Centrum type vitamin each day. Absolutely introduce your carbs slowly when you begin. Try a SMALL salad at lunch, another at dinner type of thing. Slowly work your way up to however fast/slow you want to lose If you keep your carbs VERY VERY low, you'll stay in this state of "no hunger" and rapid weight loss ... if that's what you want (not everyone does!) Going to LC treats will almost guarantee your quick departure from Ketosis Central ... something to consider. Nothing about the "experiment" can backfire. What you're doing is keeping carbs very, very low (or non existent). For people who have a difficult time losing, Dr. Atkins advised reducing carbs to 15 or 10 ... "or for especially difficult cases, 0 carbs". Link to Kimmer's Fitday

Last edited by lynnp : Tue, Mar-21-06 at 04:22.
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  #2   ^
Old Mon, Mar-20-06, 09:23
lynnp's Avatar
lynnp lynnp is offline
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Posts: 4,072
 
Plan: My Version of M/E
Stats: 284/000/140 Female 65 inches
BF:54%/49.5%/25%
Progress: 197%
Location: Rhode Island
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In case anyone wishes to read the original 221 page thread, this is its address: http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthre...66&page=1&pp=15
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  #3   ^
Old Mon, Mar-20-06, 09:41
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shopgirl28 shopgirl28 is offline
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Plan: atkins
Stats: 183/000/130 Female 5'6
BF:
Progress: 345%
Location: Massachusetts
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hey! this is a much more appropriate place. I have a question about the kimmer experience...how was kimmer? I've read it several times over the past few weeks and I was just wondering where it came from?

Today's a workout day; I usually do 5 days in a row and take off 2 days (usually after a weekend of working). So saturday and yesterday were may days off, now I need to kick my butt back at the gym. I'm thinking about starting l-carnitine today since I've read a lot about it, I'm hoping it will give me that little extra push in the gym.
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  #4   ^
Old Mon, Mar-20-06, 09:41
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poisinivy poisinivy is offline
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Posts: 1,509
 
Plan: Jenny Craig
Stats: 240.4/194/165 Female 5'6" - large frame
BF:soft/round/cuddly
Progress: 62%
Location: Washington, DC
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Thanks so much for posting this..............

I've been on the M&E fast since Friday, the 17th. I've lost 2.6 pounds thus far, today is day 4 for me. I'm actually loving it, although I do miss my veggies and have been making sure to leave room for them in my carb totals. I have been counting the eggs in my carbs and have been keeping my carbs at 5 per day. Normally I don't handle severe ketosis very well (severe nauseau), but I've been okay the last 4 days. My energy level is pretty good considering........I was concerned that it would drop much more. I'm really not sure it has dropped at all. Saturday I ran 1.5 miles and walked 4.5 miles, and so far today I've run 2 miles and walked 2. I'll probably walk another 2 miles after lunch. I do take a multivitamin each morning and I'm also taking Relacore wich has additional calcium and other nutrients that I need.

I intend to continue on the M&E fast for 7 days and then slowly work back up to my 20grams of carbs again.

C
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  #5   ^
Old Mon, Mar-20-06, 09:41
sarar's Avatar
sarar sarar is offline
Princess Sara
Posts: 1,826
 
Plan: Dukan
Stats: 210/165.6/150 Female 5 ft 4 inches
BF:---
Progress: 74%
Location: L.A. (Lower Alabama)
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Found us!! Thanks Lynn!
Sara<><
(AKA one of the red-headed stepchildren)
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  #6   ^
Old Mon, Mar-20-06, 09:51
lbahr
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Hi Lynn -

Thanks for posting the m/e experiment (?) again. I really enjoyed reading it and I think I am going to go back to m/e for awhile. It's really no big deal to me since I eat mostly meat and eggs now anyways!

I must confess, I did indulge in a piece of LC cheesecake this weekend at The Cheesecake Factory. It is the first "sweet" I have had this year. It was creamy and good, but I didn't pass out from the thrill of it or anything. According to them, it was 6 g. of carbs. So I felt like I "cheated" but really didn't. I have stayed LC or m/e since 12/30/05 and I feel wonderful. Yes, I do feel sluggish at times, but hey, who doesn't? Can't be bouncin' off the walls all of the time, right?

Let me tell you all something else, I exercise now. I used to HATE exercise and avoided any form of it at all costs. Now I look for ways to get more walking or exercise in. I do give myself one day off per week, which is Sunday's (on exercise only). The other days I workout every morning for 30 minutes to Walk Away The Pounds (walk/kick version) and now I am incorporating an arm toning exercise this week. Today was the first day of tricep dips and I did 3 sets of 12 reps. I will continue them every day this week. I also attend an aerobic class on Tuesday and Thursday nights and it usually goes for 60 minutes. I want to tell everyone to take measurements, it has helped me see where the inches are coming off at, even if the scales aren't moving. I HIGHLY recommend this. Make sure you take: Bust, Waist, Tummy (between naval and pubic area), hips, calf and thigh. You will be amazed at how many inches will come off.

I look forward to posting in here with all of my fine friends I have made. This is the most supportive and informational thread and I enjoy it immensely.

Ya'all are awesome!!!!!

Linda
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  #7   ^
Old Mon, Mar-20-06, 09:52
Jen B
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Ah, this is perfect! Thank you, Lynn! I like our new "home"! And the link to the invaluable wealth of information in the old thread right off the bat is so helpful, not only for the oldtimers, but the newcomers who come on board. I wanted to post some other links right off the bat as well as FYIs to those that might be considering this as a WOL. I think anyone who has favorite links of their own should also post them here on page one.

"Anthropological Research Reveals Human Dietary Requirements for Optimal Health": http://www.biblelife.org/abrams.htm

The human digestive tract is virtually carnivorous: http://paleodiet.com/comparison.html

"Adventures in Diet" By Vilhjalmur Stefansson, Harper's Monthly Magazine, November 1935: http://www.biblelife.org/stefansson1.htm

"Fear of Fat"? Get over it! http://www.westonaprice.org/transition/fatfear.html AND http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=289385 (link to another General LC thread)

Fats: butter or margarine?? http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/...?s=hydrogenated

"The real human diet is a totally carnivorous one" (link to thread from the paleo board): http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=287013

Have a great M/E, high-fat, non-hungry day, everyone!

Last edited by Jen B : Thu, Nov-23-06 at 06:55.
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  #8   ^
Old Mon, Mar-20-06, 09:57
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sarar sarar is offline
Princess Sara
Posts: 1,826
 
Plan: Dukan
Stats: 210/165.6/150 Female 5 ft 4 inches
BF:---
Progress: 74%
Location: L.A. (Lower Alabama)
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Forgot to say: blood sugar is finally holding, so I'm back on strict M&E. It is nice to be able to eat on vacation. I'm feeling hunger so am eating my meat and eggs...and hot, herb tea.
Sara<><
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Old Mon, Mar-20-06, 09:58
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HButterfly HButterfly is offline
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Posts: 475
 
Plan: VLC
Stats: 234/139/152 Female 5'5"
BF:
Progress: 116%
Location: North of Edmonton, Canada
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Hi everyone, I have been doing M&E for 20 days now and I am feeling great. The first 2 weeks were rough but I hung in there and now I feel awesome! I was originally planning on eating all M&E for 46 days but now I want to continue indefinitely and make this a life plan.

Have a great day!

PS: Hi Sara!
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  #10   ^
Old Mon, Mar-20-06, 10:03
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CricketM CricketM is offline
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Posts: 1,643
 
Plan: M&E
Stats: 194.6/156.4/140 Female 5' 5.5"
BF:duh...yes!....
Progress: 70%
Location: Rocky Mountains
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Good Morning M&Eers!!

I'm back from Spring Break. We had a great time (may have come home with an addition to our family, as my 15yo neice may come to live with us and finish HS here starting this fall). Though I will NOT count that as a weight gain! LOL!

Far as the food went, things went relatively well. Even harder for my family (mostly my Mom) to accept than the M&E was the fact that I gave up one meal a day for Lent! My brother lost 50 lbs via LC last spring, so it was totally easy to eat with him. Every day at lunch time he would bring me a plate of eggs and meat (yeah, I have an awesome brother!!!). I did eat some veggies, but only in tiny amounts. I had about two bites of cake the entire week (Mom had baked specially for DH), and those were a few days apart. Drank tons of water, and had no cravings or episodes. Travel always makes me retain water, and to top it off, TOM is due any second. With all that said, I am down 2 pounds since before the trip... wooo hooo!

Back to M&E I go (although I may have to have a bit of veggies tonight at a 'thing'). I made some jerkey last night ... wow, it was awesome! I may as well keep the dehydrator on the counter, as it looks like it's going to be a staple at our house!)

I still have about 30 pages to read and catch up on (on this thread alone), but I see that everyone is hanging in there, and that there are some AWESOME big losers doing their thing! Congrats to you all ... it's good to be back to a place where everyone 'gets' this M&E thing!

Hugs to y'all (<-- my tribute to Texas!), Cricket
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  #11   ^
Old Mon, Mar-20-06, 10:05
Jen B
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Kimmer is a 47 yoa woman who lost 160 lbs in 7 months. This is a link to her Fitday: http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/Public...&Month=7&Day=13. From what I can tell, she didn't do strict M/E, but pretty LC with some veggies and M/E interspersed. I think her thing was to do M/E in 3-day increments. Not sure, though.

Here's a link to a thread where Kimmer participated from back in early 2005. Her comments start on page one. She has a rotating before/after picture. She is gorgeous!! http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/s...09&page=1&pp=30
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Old Mon, Mar-20-06, 10:10
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red2680 red2680 is offline
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Plan: Atkins
Stats: 203.6/203.6/150 Female 5'-4"
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Location: North Salt Lake, Utah
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Wow... busy busy thread!!!
Happy we have a new home... Great intro Lynn.
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  #13   ^
Old Mon, Mar-20-06, 10:16
Jen B
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PoisinIvy: Nausea is common when going into deep ketosis due to a direct effect of ketones on the nausea center in the head. The nausea center and the appetite center in the brain are less than a centimeter distance apart.

I never get nauseaus, but I've heard that any nausea encountered passes after a short period of time.
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Old Mon, Mar-20-06, 10:28
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Wildflowr6 Wildflowr6 is offline
Always Shining
Posts: 1,932
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 363.3/332.6/145 Female 5'7"
BF:'fraid so...
Progress: 14%
Location: Virginiaaahhh
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Lynn, AWESOME job getting us all up and running in our new home! Thanks!!!
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Old Mon, Mar-20-06, 10:48
Jen B
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I saw this link in another thread http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/fat-not-protein.html. I have quoted only part of it below. I suggest clicking the link and reading the whole article, though, to get the whole scoop. Fascinating!!

Quote:
The case for getting energy from fat and ketones
When most people think of eating a low-carb diet, they tend to think of it as being a protein-based one. This is false. All traditional carnivorous diets, whether eaten by animals or humans, are more fat than protein with a ratio of about eighty percent of calories from fat and twenty percent of calories from protein. Similarly, the main fuel produced by a modern low-carb diet should also be fatty acids derived from dietary fat and body fat. We find in practice that free fatty acids are higher in the bloodstream on a low-carb diet compared with a conventional diet.[vii] [viii]

But fats also produce an important secondary fuel: ‘ketone bodies’. Ketones were first discovered in the urine of diabetic patients in the mid-19th century; for almost fifty years thereafter, they were thought to be abnormal and undesirable by-products of incomplete fat oxidation. In the early 20th century, however, they were recognised as normal circulating metabolites produced by liver and readily utilised by body tissues. Ketones are an important substitute for glucose. During prolonged periods of starvation, fatty acids are made from the breakdown of stored triglycerides in body fat.[ix] On a low-carb diet, the fatty acids are derived from dietary fat, or body fat if the diet does not supply enough. Free fatty acids are converted to ketones by the liver. They then provide energy to all cells with mitochondria. Within a cell, ketones are used to generate ATP. And where glucose needs the intervention of bacteria, ketones can be used directly. Reduction of carbohydrate intake stimulates the synthesis of ketones from body fat.[x] This is one reason why reducing carbs is important. Another is that reducing carbohydrate and protein intake also leads to a lower insulin level in the blood. This, in turn, reduces the risks associated with insulin resistance and the Metabolic Syndrome.

Ketone formation and a shift to using more fatty acids also reduces the body’s overall need for glucose. Even during high-energy demand from exercise, a low-carb diet has what are called ‘glucoprotective’ effects. What this all means is that ketosis arising from a low-carb diet is capable of accommodating a wide range of metabolic demands to sustain body functions and health while not using, and thus sparing, protein from lean muscle tissue. Ketones are also the preferred energy source for highly active tissues such as heart and muscle.[xi]

All this means that more glucose is available to the brain and other essential glucose-dependent tissues.
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