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  #31   ^
Old Fri, Mar-17-06, 09:14
ReginaW's Avatar
ReginaW ReginaW is offline
Contrarian
Posts: 2,759
 
Plan: Atkins/Controlled Carb
Stats: 275/190/190 Female 72
BF:Not a clue!
Progress: 100%
Location: Missouri
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel1
There are at least two logical fallacies in the article. First, correlation does not imply causation. Just because two events happen at the same time or close to each other in time does not mean that one event CAUSED the other event. Second, the author leaps to conclusions based on insufficient evidence (one example). I wouldn't let my first-year students get away with this.

Rachel


N=1

That's not evidence.
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  #32   ^
Old Fri, Mar-17-06, 10:03
Hellistile's Avatar
Hellistile Hellistile is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,540
 
Plan: Animal-based/IF
Stats: 252/215.6/130 Female 5'4
BF:
Progress: 30%
Location: Vancouver Island
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kebaldwin
Using their reasoning and logic ...

IF everyone on Atkins diet that gets sick -- is because of the Atkins diet

THEN everyone that gets sick that is NOT on Atkins diet -- is because they are NOT on the Atkins diet

Since more people get sick because they are NOT on the Atkins diet -- then more people would be healthy if they were on the Atkins diet.


I've posted this beside my desk on the wall. If anyone at the office even dares to say something to me, I just say:

"sorry can't chat but read this as I'm busy injecting bacon grease into my veins"

I am so fuming mad as it made the headlines on the news here this morning.

Last edited by Hellistile : Fri, Mar-17-06 at 10:09.
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  #33   ^
Old Fri, Mar-17-06, 10:34
Lynnrea Lynnrea is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 64
 
Plan: Protein Power
Stats: 210/193/175 Female 69 inches
BF:
Progress: 49%
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Cross-posted.

Do those docs have any idea how many people are low-carbing it? And they're tut-tutting about ONE sick person? Look at it this way: If ONE person out of millions got sick from a drug or procedure, they'd wave it off as a statistical aberration, and say the illness probably was caused by something else anyway. But ONE person out of millions gets sick while on a low carb diet, and they're up in arms. They should be sent back to Statistics 101.
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  #34   ^
Old Fri, Mar-17-06, 10:40
Hellistile's Avatar
Hellistile Hellistile is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,540
 
Plan: Animal-based/IF
Stats: 252/215.6/130 Female 5'4
BF:
Progress: 30%
Location: Vancouver Island
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But the media all over the world picked up on this article and the damage has been done. This was orchestrated on purpose by those who belong to organizations who have it on their agenda to discredit the Atkins diet. Even a full retraction won't counteract it.
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  #35   ^
Old Fri, Mar-17-06, 10:50
kyrasdad's Avatar
kyrasdad kyrasdad is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,060
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 338/253/210 Male 5'11"
BF:
Progress: 66%
Location: Broken Arrow, Oklahoma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellistile
But the media all over the world picked up on this article and the damage has been done. This was orchestrated on purpose by those who belong to organizations who have it on their agenda to discredit the Atkins diet. Even a full retraction won't counteract it.

Yup. That's the classic PCRM tactic. Misinform, but make sure the headline and first paragraph get the message across. We're a bullet point society. People see headlines, they don't read articles. They get sound bites. They take information in tiny little pieces unless they are supremely interested in the topic.

Result? Damage can be done really fast, and it's difficult to repair.
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  #36   ^
Old Fri, Mar-17-06, 10:56
ceberezin ceberezin is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 619
 
Plan: Protein Power
Stats: 155/140/140 Male 68
BF:18%
Progress:
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Oh Good Lord! Ketoacidosis is characterized by simultaneous high blood sugar and high levels of ketone bodies. This state can only occur in type I diabetics who produce no insulin. In a diabetic, since there is no insulin to lower blood sugar by driving glucose into the cells, the cells are starved despite the presence of high levels of glucose in the blood and so meatbolize fat, causing the simultaneous presence of both glucose and ketones. This phenomenon is not possible in a non-diabetic In a non-diabetic, ketosis is stimulated by low glucose levels. The article reported that the woman in question had both glucose and ketones in her urine. This would suggest either undiagnosed diabetes or some other underlying serious metabolic disorder. Blaming her condition on the
Atkins diet is an outright lie. It's hard to believe that the people making this charge were too ignorant to know better.
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  #37   ^
Old Fri, Mar-17-06, 11:14
K Walt K Walt is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 606
 
Plan: PP
Stats: 210/170/170
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: NJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellistile
But the media all over the world picked up on this article and the damage has been done.


Nah. . . no damage to me. I'm going to keep on. I'm not interested in if the media likes it or not.
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  #38   ^
Old Fri, Mar-17-06, 11:18
rissa's Avatar
rissa rissa is offline
Chaos in the flesh!
Posts: 1,725
 
Plan: custom
Stats: 386/218.2/167 Female 69
BF:
Progress: 77%
Location: Colorado
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Oh how I love "journalists". What they didn't tell you is that the woman, who was severely obese probably - most definitely, had OTHER medical issues. The diet didn't cause her ketoacidosis, it may have encouraged it with her OTHER medical issues - which is why Dr. Atkins stressed VERY highly that you see a physician before starting his way of life - he didn't say it just so you could get your starting numbers - it was so that you could make sure that you didn't have something going on in your body that you didn't know about.

My sister had a c-section 3 days ago. Healthy baby girl! 10 lbs, 1oz yadda yadda yadda. Well - she had a complication this morning - she had severe headaches due to a buildup of spinal fluid. Therefore, the c-section caused the spinal fluid buildup.
NO - she had a spinal block to prepare her for the c-section. In the process, there was a minor complication in the procedure of the spinal block NOT the C-section.

Its not even some form of logic that doesn't make sense - its not logic at all. Its blind judgement based on stupidity. Its not ignorance. Ignorance is when you don't know - stupidity is when you don't know and REFUSE to get the facts yet spout off like you know everything.
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  #39   ^
Old Fri, Mar-17-06, 11:53
danabear's Avatar
danabear danabear is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 497
 
Plan: whole foods (mostly)
Stats: 210/194/160 Female 5'8
BF:a little lower
Progress: 32%
Location: Texas
Default News about Atkin's causing coma

I was watching the news on NBC here in Dallas last night and there was a short story about Atkins causing a condition that causes comas. It was very short, said something like "Bad news for people following a high protein diet like Atkins. It can cause a condition that can lead to a coma. Doctors say it's rare." The footage was of hamburgers cooking on an outdoor grill. That's it- no elaboration, no explanation. It's not listed on the channel's website as a story either.
I thought it was strange. Just a negative blurb about Atkins with nothing else. Anyone else notice this?
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  #40   ^
Old Fri, Mar-17-06, 12:18
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bigpeach bigpeach is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 211
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 403/345/300 Male 6'7"
BF:
Progress: 56%
Location: Minneapolis
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OK, I'll let you in on a little secret. I am "gifted" according to my childhood IQ test and was labeled as that through school. The way to deal with stories like this and the people quoted in the story is to just ignore them. Dumb people will always piss you off when you listen to them, or think about what they have said. I know it is hard since we are all intelligent people to not point out the idiocy of their statements, but trust me, life is easier just ignoring them. This chick in ICU is just proof that Darwin was right. The docs will have her back on donuts and sodas in no time so she'll be a profitable long-term patient.
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  #41   ^
Old Fri, Mar-17-06, 12:56
bigpeach's Avatar
bigpeach bigpeach is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 211
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 403/345/300 Male 6'7"
BF:
Progress: 56%
Location: Minneapolis
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And, my plan for the next time someone mentions a case like this to me is to tell them that whatever diet they are following seems to cause extreme ugliness, and that it has affected their kids twice as much.
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  #42   ^
Old Fri, Mar-17-06, 13:46
rissa's Avatar
rissa rissa is offline
Chaos in the flesh!
Posts: 1,725
 
Plan: custom
Stats: 386/218.2/167 Female 69
BF:
Progress: 77%
Location: Colorado
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpeach
And, my plan for the next time someone mentions a case like this to me is to tell them that whatever diet they are following seems to cause extreme ugliness, and that it has affected their kids twice as much.


That's kinda harsh to pick on an innocent kid....can't you just direct the comment at the person that's blasting you? There's no reason to be hurtful to a child- even if the child doesn't hear it.
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  #43   ^
Old Fri, Mar-17-06, 14:18
pinkquinn's Avatar
pinkquinn pinkquinn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 408
 
Plan: Neandergirl
Stats: 145/131/122 Female 5 feet 6 inches
BF:36/34/19
Progress: 61%
Location: California Bay Area
Default diet linked to heath condition

Updated: 5:39 a.m. ET March 17, 2006
LONDON - The popular Atkins diet could be linked to a life-threatening complication which one woman who claimed to be following it developed, according to doctors who published a case report on it Friday in a British medical journal.

The Atkins diet calls for restricting carbohydrates to achieve weight loss, then gradually adding them back in. However, many people who say they’re following the diet actually eat large amounts of protein and fat.

Doctors from New York University wrote in The Lancet journal of a 40-year-old woman who developed a dangerous condition called ketoacidosis, a buildup of acids called ketones in the blood which can lead to patients falling into a coma.

Story continues below ↓
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However, some outside experts said the case is rare and does not reflect a major health threat associated with low-carb diets.

“I think this is an isolated case. The idea that serious ketoacidosis could be triggered by a low-carb diet does not happen very often,” said Dr. Paul Clayton, president of the forum on food and nutrition at the Royal Society of Medicine in London.

Dr. Abby Bloch, vice-president of programs and research at the Dr. Robert C. Atkins Foundation — a medical research charity run by Atkins’ widow, Veronica — said ketoacidosis was not triggered by diet and could only occur if the patient had an “abnormal clinical metabolic condition.”

“It is not brought on by diet unless she had an underlying cause which she and her doctors weren’t aware of,” Bloch said.

“Ketoacidosis is an abnormal state that occurs when there is a clinical abnormality. It doesn’t occur when there’s a normal state like a low-carb diet.”

The patient, who was not identified, was admitted to an intensive care unit for four days after becoming short of breath. Before being hospitalized, she had lost her appetite, felt nauseous and was vomiting four to six times a day, the doctors wrote in the paper.

Tests confirmed ketoacidosis.

Ketones are produced in the liver when insulin levels fall due to starvation or diabetes.

“Our patient had an underlying ketosis caused by the Atkins diet ... This problem may become more recognized because this diet is becoming increasingly popular worldwide,” said Professor Klaus-Dieter Lessnau, who led the team from the New York University School of Medicine.

Clayton said that the main problem of high protein diets is in the strain they put on kidneys and the risk of renal failure.

© 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
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  #44   ^
Old Fri, Mar-17-06, 14:27
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Rheneas Rheneas is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 304
 
Plan: Primal
Stats: 200/129/125 Female 163cm
BF:26
Progress: 95%
Location: Aberdeen
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Another 'professional' who doesn't know the difference between lipolytic ketosis and diabetic ketoacidosis.
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  #45   ^
Old Fri, Mar-17-06, 15:14
LC FP LC FP is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,162
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 228/195/188 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 83%
Location: Erie PA
Default

Talk about being hurtful--

Ketoacidosis can be caused by 2 things:

diabetes
alcohol
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