Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Low-Carb Studies & Research / Media Watch > Low-Carb War Zone
User Name
Password
FAQ Members Calendar Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #3736   ^
Old Sun, May-07-06, 08:37
kwikdriver's Avatar
kwikdriver kwikdriver is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,581
 
Plan: No grains, no sugar.
Stats: 001/045/525 Male 72
BF:
Progress: 8%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LondonIan
For those who took my assertion as 'chest beating' (and I must say that doing that while patting myself on the back was, I think, an heroic feat in itself), that was not the purpose.


Even us non-superheroes have two arms and hands.




Quote:
Yup, I don't have much time for sheep, nor for wolves come to that, they are both dangerous.



The few, the proud, the neither-wolf-nor-sheep.


Quote:
The figures aren't generalisations, they are rough approximations.


I don't even know what this means, sorry, don't have your super-intellect.

Quote:
My comments weren't about dieters, they were about a micro-society - not sure what your point was in mentioning that.


Of course they weren't:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperIan
In the face of some of the most clear-cut megalomania ever encountered on this board, they immediately adopted the role of disciple/follower.


If these people weren't dieters, who in the world were they? You can name names. We're all friends here. How did they "adopt the role of disciple/follower" if they didn't adopt Bear's diet? I'm looking forward to a super display of rhetoric in this answer.


Quote:
I'm not clear in what way referring to someone as dictatorial is an 'inanity'. If some one does not accept 'dissent', attempts to stifle opposing views and dismisses (rather than addresses) evidence which contradicts their views that sounds pretty dictatorial to me.


It's a message board. There's no way to dictate anything. Bear, in his own flawed way, put forth his opinions, and people are free to refute them, believe them, reject them, or ignore them, which happened.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #3737   ^
Old Sun, May-07-06, 08:51
CLASYS's Avatar
CLASYS CLASYS is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 164
 
Plan: Atkins original diet
Stats: 245/210/175 Male 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 50%
Location: New York
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa N
I don't believe that scientists have found any fossilized chocolate cake remains or cake residue....
I can assure you that it's easily found in various vending machines I have had to deal with over the years. There have been mentions of this over the years with regard to computer programmers working in odd environments/odd hours with only vending machines containing what is described as "pre-stalled food" meaning junk food that tastes the same whether it is 3 days or 3 years old. The stuff doesn't go bad [or at least doesn't get any worse!] and is just as [in]edible at any point in time.

cjl (Real programmers don't program in Pascal)
Reply With Quote
  #3738   ^
Old Sun, May-07-06, 08:52
ubizmo's Avatar
ubizmo ubizmo is offline
New Member
Posts: 384
 
Plan: mumble
Stats: 273/230/200 Male 73 inches
BF:yup
Progress: 59%
Location: Philadelphia, USA
Default

theBear was insulting, arrogant, cultic, and intransigently wrong about a lot of things. In a forum dedicated to the exchange of ideas for mutual benefit, he deserved what he got and more.

ANYONE who comes onto a nutrition forum proclaiming that theirs is the only correct diet for the human species, dismissing all criticisms as the result of "addiction" and "acculturation", refusing to provide scientific support for allegedly scientific claims, telling people whether they should or shouldn't post--shouldn't pretend incomprehension at getting nailed to the wall. No one should have to put up with that crap and no one should regret having called him on it.
Reply With Quote
  #3739   ^
Old Sun, May-07-06, 09:07
potatofree's Avatar
potatofree potatofree is offline
Fully Caffeinated
Posts: 17,245
 
Plan: Back to Atkins
Stats: 298/228/160 Female 5ft9in
BF:?/35/?
Progress: 51%
Default

I'm just trying to figure out why it would have taken any more valuable time to abandon this thread to the "parasites" and take up the support thread where debating isn't allowed?
Reply With Quote
  #3740   ^
Old Sun, May-07-06, 09:12
paulm's Avatar
paulm paulm is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 113
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 215/185/190 Male 6'1"
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: Arizona
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwikdriver
This is the same error that other people have used here. Most of the people who were interested in what Bear had to say saw through his flaws, and took away what they thought was valuable. They aren't looking for a "guide," per se, just a sounding board. There were, at most, 5 people who could be considered "disciples" of Bear, and three of them gave up on the "carnivore" diet within a short period of time, as they were just fad dieters, anyway.

As I have said throughout this thread, most people who were interested in this plan just don't like vegetables, and were happy to find someone who had gone for a long period of time without eating them and was still alive to tell the tale. Somehow, Ian and others have hysterically taken those 5 or so people and turned them into a third of the population. As bad as Bearism is, the knuckleheads wringing their hands about these non-existent sheep, and breaking their arms patting themselves on the backs for not being one of them, are worse. Essentially, what you people are doing is using the existence of a phantom group of people to attack Bear, because you don't like him, and because it's entertaining. If Bear baiting is how you want to entertain yourselves that's perfectly cool in my book; I just wish you could do it without the plain hypocrisy, and without insulting people who chose to eat all meat after actually thinking things through, or people who made the decision despite Bear, not because of him, which is the vast majority of them. If you want to deflate Bear and protect all these dumb sheep, just point out the errors in what he says, which is certainly easy enough to do. The attacks do no one any good, especially when you consider the number of people (2/3 of the population???) being attacked in posts like Superhero Ian's.



Good God Kwik, you are the man!!! What you typed here is what was in my head, but I couldn't put it to words.

At least Bear finally figured out that it's too much trouble to try and continue in this thread with all the conflict. Do you think we'll all be so lucky as to see all of the self appointed diet and nutrition police go away or will they just find new threads/posters to bash in the effort of protecting all of us dumb*sses?!?!
Reply With Quote
  #3741   ^
Old Sun, May-07-06, 09:16
kwikdriver's Avatar
kwikdriver kwikdriver is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,581
 
Plan: No grains, no sugar.
Stats: 001/045/525 Male 72
BF:
Progress: 8%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ubizmo
theBear was insulting, arrogant, cultic, and intransigently wrong about a lot of things. In a forum dedicated to the exchange of ideas for mutual benefit, he deserved what he got and more.

ANYONE who comes onto a nutrition forum proclaiming that theirs is the only correct diet for the human species, dismissing all criticisms as the result of "addiction" and "acculturation", refusing to provide scientific support for allegedly scientific claims, telling people whether they should or shouldn't post--shouldn't pretend incomprehension at getting nailed to the wall. No one should have to put up with that crap and no one should regret having called him on it.


Every word of this is true. But there was a lot more than just Bear involved, and people weren't attacking Bear just to "give him what he deserved;" there was clearly quite a bit of mental masturbation going on, particularly in some of the latter posts.

Here's the way I look at it. Bear is what he is. The man's 70-odd years old, has lived an aggressively "F--- you, I'm doing it my way" life from the day he was born, and isn't going to change. This was obvious by about his third post. The question then becomes, how best to handle it? Challenging his assertions, which you and others did ably, brings about discussions that everyone who cares about proper diet can benefit from. Attacking the guy with irrevelancies brings about this mess, and attracts people who are interested in the attacks for their own sake, and whatever ego gratification and "attaboys" they can get (look around at some of the journals, if you want to see thinly disguised ugly behavior re: this subject). It does no one any good, except the few, the proud, the neither-wolf-nor-sheep. At least one of Bear's most vociferous challengers doesn't even diet, but this individual sure seems to care a great deal about what other people do with their diets. And that's the kind of person you bring out of the woodwork when it becomes a mudslinging contest.
Reply With Quote
  #3742   ^
Old Sun, May-07-06, 09:23
paulm's Avatar
paulm paulm is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 113
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 215/185/190 Male 6'1"
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: Arizona
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwikdriver
Every word of this is true. But there was a lot more than just Bear involved, and people weren't attacking Bear just to "give him what he deserved;" there was clearly quite a bit of mental masturbation going on, particularly in some of the latter posts.

Here's the way I look at it. Bear is what he is. The man's 70-odd years old, has lived an aggressively "F--- you, I'm doing it my way" life from the day he was born, and isn't going to change. This was obvious by about his third post. The question then becomes, how best to handle it? Challenging his assertions, which you and others did ably, brings about discussions that everyone who cares about proper diet can benefit from. Attacking the guy with irrevelancies brings about this mess, and attracts people who are interested in the attacks for their own sake, and whatever ego gratification and "attaboys" they can get (look around at some of the journals, if you want to see thinly disguised ugly behavior re: this subject). It does no one any good, except the few, the proud, the neither-wolf-nor-sheep. At least one of Bear's most vociferous challengers doesn't even diet, but this individual sure seems to care a great deal about what other people do with their diets. And that's the kind of person you bring out of the woodwork when it becomes a mudslinging contest.


Again, Kwik you are the man! Well said!!
Reply With Quote
  #3743   ^
Old Sun, May-07-06, 09:30
Rob21370's Avatar
Rob21370 Rob21370 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 225
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 336/297/140 Male 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 20%
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulm
Good God Kwik, you are the man!!! What you typed here is what was in my head, but I couldn't put it to words.

At least Bear finally figured out that it's too much trouble to try and continue in this thread with all the conflict. Do you think we'll all be so lucky as to see all of the self appointed diet and nutrition police go away or will they just find new threads/posters to bash in the effort of protecting all of us dumb*sses?!?!


Cheers and a tip of the hat to Kwik & Paul who get it. A wag of the finger goes out to the diet and nutrition police. I doubt the all-meat police will go away but....there's always the support thread

I would love to answer Potato's question but I'm afraid it it can't be answered on the public boards. What happened to this thread was intended to exactly happen this way, the only undecided factor was how long it would last.
Reply With Quote
  #3744   ^
Old Sun, May-07-06, 09:31
fluffybear fluffybear is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 3,221
 
Plan: low carb/low fat
Stats: 255/236/155 Female 5 ft. 9 in.
BF:32%/?/20%
Progress: 19%
Location: USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ubizmo
theBear was insulting, arrogant, cultic, and intransigently wrong about a lot of things. In a forum dedicated to the exchange of ideas for mutual benefit, he deserved what he got and more.

ANYONE who comes onto a nutrition forum proclaiming that theirs is the only correct diet for the human species, dismissing all criticisms as the result of "addiction" and "acculturation", refusing to provide scientific support for allegedly scientific claims, telling people whether they should or shouldn't post--shouldn't pretend incomprehension at getting nailed to the wall. No one should have to put up with that crap and no one should regret having called him on it.



Here here! I'll drink (a cup of blenderized meat gruel) to that!
Reply With Quote
  #3745   ^
Old Sun, May-07-06, 09:35
fluffybear fluffybear is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 3,221
 
Plan: low carb/low fat
Stats: 255/236/155 Female 5 ft. 9 in.
BF:32%/?/20%
Progress: 19%
Location: USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by potatofree
I'm just trying to figure out why it would have taken any more valuable time to abandon this thread to the "parasites" and take up the support thread where debating isn't allowed?


Yeah, and I'm still trying to figure out why defending himself on a thread debating eating meat vs. meat + vegetation stopped Bear from doing the really "important" things he wanted to do. I didn't think participation on this message board was mandatory. LOL
Reply With Quote
  #3746   ^
Old Sun, May-07-06, 09:37
OldDoc2B OldDoc2B is offline
New Member
Posts: 11
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 240/210/200 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress:
Default

Can some of you so offended by the prospect of an all meat diet (short or long term) please provide some information about the paleo fruits and vegetables that you eat? Since everything in stores today is a product of fairly recent artificial selection and specifically crafted to appeal to our collective "sweet tooth" or not provoke our "bitter" response (spitting it out), could you please tell us about your f & v?
In my native NW, we still have wapato and camus about (two plants Indians ate at times), but I have never seen any available in any store. Is there something else going on in other parts of the country? What is the nutritional content of these foods? How much of them do you eat? How do you get them?

Any information on the subject would be most welcome.
Reply With Quote
  #3747   ^
Old Sun, May-07-06, 09:40
fluffybear fluffybear is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 3,221
 
Plan: low carb/low fat
Stats: 255/236/155 Female 5 ft. 9 in.
BF:32%/?/20%
Progress: 19%
Location: USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob21370
Cheers and a tip of the hat to Kwik & Paul who get it. A wag of the finger goes out to the diet and nutrition police. I doubt the all-meat police will go away but....there's always the support thread

I would love to answer Potato's question but I'm afraid it it can't be answered on the public boards. What happened to this thread was intended to exactly happen this way, the only undecided factor was how long it would last.


Nope, YOU are the one who doesn't get it. It wasn't all about being "diet and nutrition police." Several of us had nothing against the "path." We just didn't like HIM coming onto this board and trying to persuade us that HE was "the way, the truth and the light."

Last edited by fluffybear : Sun, May-07-06 at 09:47.
Reply With Quote
  #3748   ^
Old Sun, May-07-06, 09:42
nraden nraden is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 144
 
Plan: Lights Out
Stats: 255/225/190 Male 72"
BF:all
Progress: 46%
Location: California
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ubizmo
theBear was insulting, arrogant, cultic, and intransigently wrong about a lot of things. In a forum dedicated to the exchange of ideas for mutual benefit, he deserved what he got and more.

ANYONE who comes onto a nutrition forum proclaiming that theirs is the only correct diet for the human species, dismissing all criticisms as the result of "addiction" and "acculturation", refusing to provide scientific support for allegedly scientific claims, telling people whether they should or shouldn't post--shouldn't pretend incomprehension at getting nailed to the wall. No one should have to put up with that crap and no one should regret having called him on it.


Thank you, Ubizmo, I couldn't have said it better myself.
Reply With Quote
  #3749   ^
Old Sun, May-07-06, 09:44
fluffybear fluffybear is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 3,221
 
Plan: low carb/low fat
Stats: 255/236/155 Female 5 ft. 9 in.
BF:32%/?/20%
Progress: 19%
Location: USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldDoc2B
Can some of you so offended by the prospect of an all meat diet (short or long term) please provide some information about the paleo fruits and vegetables that you eat? Since everything in stores today is a product of fairly recent artificial selection and specifically crafted to appeal to our collective "sweet tooth" or not provoke our "bitter" response (spitting it out), could you please tell us about your f & v?
In my native NW, we still have wapato and camus about (two plants Indians ate at times), but I have never seen any available in any store. Is there something else going on in other parts of the country? What is the nutritional content of these foods? How much of them do you eat? How do you get them?

Any information on the subject would be most welcome.


This post should probably be over on the Paleo forum, but of course that is up to the moderators. However the ongoing debate on this subject has already been discussed at great length. The posts are all still here for you to read if you like. Just start on post 1. If you are new to the forum--WELCOME!

Last edited by fluffybear : Sun, May-07-06 at 10:17.
Reply With Quote
  #3750   ^
Old Sun, May-07-06, 09:50
paulm's Avatar
paulm paulm is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 113
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 215/185/190 Male 6'1"
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: Arizona
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fluffybear
Nope, YOU are the one who doesn't get it. It wasn't all about being "diet and nutrition police." Several of us who didn't like Bear had nothing against the "path." We just didn't like HIM coming onto this board and trying to persuade us that HE was "the way, the truth and the light."



And we all owe you and others like you a HUGE thank you for standing up to the Bear. Without you and others like you can you imagine how this thread would have gone?!?!? We may have had an exchange of information (although sometimes questionable) instead of meaningless insults thrown back and forth!
Reply With Quote
Closed Thread


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 23:26.


Copyright © 2000-2024 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.