I had an epiphany last night. Suddenly something clicked.

Vitamin D is stored in fat.
Obese individuals require 2-3 times the vitamin D supplementation of normal weight individuals because some amount of vitamin D is stored in fat and, therefore, is not bio-available.

Vitamin D controls insulin…insulin causes hunger/cravings and stores fat…fat captures vitamin D and makes it not available for the body to use…

Resulting in less vitamin D which means less insulin control …higher insulin causes more hunger/cravings and stores more fat…fat captures vitamin D and makes it not available for the body to use…

Resulting in even less vitamin D which means even less insulin control …even higher insulin causes even more hunger/cravings and stores even more fat…fat captures vitamin D and makes it not available for the body to use…

And on and on and on.

Another thought.

Initial weight gain leads to more clothes covering the body and less time spent outdoors in the sun, and when you are out less skin is exposed to the sun for vitamin D production which leads to vitamin D deficiency which starts the above cycle.


Now I know some of you are saying here she goes again. She’s obsessed with vitamin D. Well, you are correct!!! I am obsessed, lol!!! It’s such a simple, logical, and, to me, completely understandable connection of how our bodies work that I’m totally awed!!! And angry at the part of the medical industry that just doesn’t get it. Or maybe want to because natural vitamin D is cheap and unpatentable and entire medical industries, i.e., cancer and immune disease, would disappear if everyone were routinely tested and supplemented to optimum D levels.


Now I know some of you are going to say, “but D is toxic in high levels and no one should take more than 800-2,000 IU/Day. To that I say bumpkus!!!! That’s just websites perpetuating the big lie!!

--Natural vitamin D is named D3, manmade vitamin D is named D2.
--Natural vitamin D, D3, has been tested at 20,000 IU/day over a 5 year period and found non toxic at that level.
--No incident of natural vitamin D toxicity has resulted in death.
--Cases of proven natural vitamin D toxicity have been the result of industrial accidents or accidental megadoses in excess of 1 Million IU/day over a prolonged period.
-- Hypercalcemia has been pointed to as an indication of vitamin D toxicity; however, hypercalcemia is also, and more often, a symptom of vitamin D deficiency.

--A 2 year old was given 4 Million IUs of vitamin D over a 5 day period resulting in diarrhea, stomach ache, and hypercalcemia. He was treated for the hypercalcemia over a period of 3 months and fully recovered with no negative results.

--Vitamin D toxicity arises at a blood level of >250 ng/ml.


Other vitamin D information.
Vitamin D is not really a vitamin; rather it is a powerful steroid and a super hormone that tells your body how to work. Its deficiency has been implicated in over 70 illnesses and diseases. Vitamin D has been proven to prevent or remit 28 kinds of cancers.

--Vitamin D levels can be easily tested with a 25-hydroxy-vitamin D or 25(OH)D test (same test, different names).

--Ignore the lab ranges for normal on this test as the norms were established using a D deficient population.
--Any reading below 60 ng/ml is deficient.
--Readings of 75-125 ng/ml are optimal.
--Individuals in the tropics naturally have vitamin D levels ranging from the mid 100s-200 ng/ml.

--Suggested vitamin D use by the body has been put at 4,000 IU/day.
--Proven vitamin D use by the body has been shown at 7,000 IU/day.
--Use of sunscreen/block of even SPF=8 cuts 95% of vitamin D production.
--Vitamin D cannot be produced by sun shining through glass.
-- People with dark skin pigmentation need 20 - 30 times as much exposure to sunlight as fair-skinned people to generate the same amount of vitamin D.
-- The further you live from the equator, the longer exposure you need to the sun in order to generate vitamin D. Canada, the UK and most U.S. states are far from the equator.
--There is no possible vitamin D production from the sun during winter for those living above 51 degrees latitude north or south of the equator.
--Clouds, aerosols and thick ozone events reduce the duration of vitamin D synthesis considerably, and can suppress vitamin D synthesis completely even at the equator.
--Sufficient levels of vitamin D are crucial for calcium absorption. Without sufficient vitamin D, the body cannot absorb calcium, rendering calcium supplements useless.
--If it hurts to press firmly on your sternum, you may be suffering from chronic vitamin D deficiency right now.
--Chronic vitamin D deficiency cannot be reversed overnight: it takes months of high dose vitamin D supplementation and sunlight exposure to rebuild the body's bones and nervous system.
--Having kidney disease or liver damage can greatly impair your body's ability to activate circulating vitamin D.

Thank you so much for all this information!
I am seriously gonna up my D3 intake...but I feel kinda guilty for not just being a nudist here in the south. Sunshine on your shoulder equals homeade vitamin D.

There should be an edit to the above document.

Vitamin D cannot be produced above 41 degrees north during winter, NOT 51 degrees.

Also, daily vitamin D needs cannot be met from the sun during winter above 37 degrees.

I finally purchased the book "The UV Advantage" written by Dr. Michael F Holick. A great book!!!

I should have read it earlier, lol!!!

from the book

Even more reason to make sure you get enough vitamin D!!!

Please don't think I mean this in any bad way. I do appreciate you trying to help me and others overcome our struggles with your suggestions, I know your heart is in the right place. Just as you are trying to help others with your suggestions, my suggestion here is meant only in a positive way to help you.

For a long time now you've been self admittedly "obsessed" with vitamin D. If I am not mistaken you seem to think almost all metabolic problems (as well as many other problems) stem down to vitamin D deficiency.
If it's all vitamin D, and vitamin D is the cure, why are so few of us who supplement heavily with it making any objective improvements in their afflictions? The evidence is not there that D is so hugely important. Those here who supplement heavily with D are not losing lots of weight or feeling a lot better... from what I can tell most of the reports are like "I guess it helps" (easily explained as a placebo effect). When I supplemented fish oil and vitamins I imagined I felt a LOT better right away, but you know as time went on the effects went away. Now one can say it might be because I needed to increase my supplement consumption (or couple it with D )... or one could say the placebo effect wore off as psychologically I stopped feeling like I was doing this new thing that would make me feel a lot better.

Maybe D helps a little. But the evidence is not there that it is significant as you seem to think it is. I know your intentions are only the best but it is not right to make people think their problems stem down to a deficiency in D (and fixing it is as simple as buying a lot of expensive supplements). I also think you are doing yourself a personal disservice by holding D up as the answer; I think it is preventing you from seeing the real complexity of the issue(s) that cause your weight problem (EVERY life is complex, weight problem or no weight problem... it's never as simple as "This One Thing"). Hey I do it too, I want to believe with my heart and soul that it's ALL carbs, and I often say that to myself to make myself feel better... but I know that there's a lot of stuff besides carbs to consider.

Basically what I'm saying is while everyone can appreciate your intentions, I think it's rarely as simple as one thing, and that D isn't the answer. Now certain things are much more important than others (for example for me carbs are really important), but there needs to be some evidence before the claim can be made (for example, there is a LOT of evidence that people's food intake patterns & weight & general health is heavily affected by carbohydrate consumption). The evidence just isn't there to support your theory of D.

Well, I think the evidence IS there to support the importance of vitamin D in overall health and in it's connection to obesity. Certainly, I'm not disputing that obesity may start with other problems such as carbohydrate consumption, high fructose corn syrup, insulin sensitivity, and ED but vitamin D deficiency certainly complicates and compounds the problem and has been proven to be a factor in insulin resistance. IMO, the significance is certainly there if in a large group of obese subjects over 90% of them are vitamin D deficient.

When you speak of people who have heavily supplemented with vitamin D and have no results, who are you speaking of? I personally know a lot of people who are having good results supplementing with vitamin D, many of them are on this board. I know a lot of people who have been treated for conditions with no positive results that have taken vitamin D and supplements I've recommended with awesome results.

Like all natural supplementation, use of vitamin D takes time and the dosage of D required varies on an individual basis. The research shows that and I've stated that practically every time I've recommended it. Even with that caveat, however, people have had remarkable results, wide ranging results, within a month or so.

Additionally, vitamin D is not expensive. It's one of the cheapest supplements around. Further, during the summer vitamin D is free!!!! Free from the sun made by exposed skin!!! Depending where you live and your health conditions and related variables, it's possible to make all the vitamin D needed during the summer for good health without cost!!

I admit I take a lot of supplements and that can get expensive though I do buy from an inexpensive supplier. On the other hand, what is good health worth? The cost is worth it to me!! I'm a 51 year old, obese, Black woman and have absolutely no health problems except for knees injured in an accident, well and gluten sensitivity. No high blood pressure, no high cholesterol, no heart disease, no diabetes, no thyroid problems, no immune problems, no breathing problems. I haven't had more than a three day cold in three years!!! How many other people Black or white do you know of my age and weight that can say the same?

My family has a history of high blood pressure, breathing problems, and heart disease. All my sisters and brothers are on high blood pressure medication. One sister has had a stroke and breast cancer. Another has heart disease. They all weigh a lot less than me. What is the difference? Is it all the supplements I've been taking for years? If that's a placebo effect, I'll take it.

I've done the research on vitamin D, tons of research, referencing the original studies not just blurbs on web pages. The research is listed on the D Experiment pages; obviously, you haven't read them. The connection is there and, IMO, it is just as significant as I think it is. More doctors are being convinced by the evidence every day. Vitamin D's role in good health and in preventing cancer is being publicized more and more and is slowly becoming mainstream.

So I'm ahead of the curve. I always have been!! (sorry, I couldn't resist, lol!!)

It's your choice to take or leave what I say. It's your life. It's your will.

Like I say, I'm about finding the pieces, all the pieces involved in good health and weight loss. IMO, vitamin D is a significant piece. IMO I think my own personal weight loss record shows that, I think other peoples' experiences show that.

Wooo, you're usually very sensible, but I'm not sure you thought this all the way through.

If you're deficient and you take a supplement, then yes, you'll feel better. Once you aren't deficient any more, then any one particular day of supplementing or not won't necessarily be evident, and if you decide to stop, it may be that your diet has resolved the cause of the deficiency, or it may be that you're caught up, and it will take your body a while to use up the current supply, so you won't notice feeling differently, it happens slowly over time.

I'm part of the D experiment group. I haven't had ANY SAD effects this winter, despite nearly a week of grey days, and in contrast to rainy days even during the summer.

My husband has had equally obvious to me huge improvements, and the ONLY change I've made to our eating in the last 3 mos is the vitamin D and it's friends calcium and magnesium, and some low carb cookies made with almond flour. I suppose it could be the cookies, but my money is on the vitamins.

I don't think D is the only answer, but it's really hard to put together a puzzle if you're missing a key piece. Without D you don't get enough calcium and magnesium. Without sufficient magnesium you can't correctly balance your potassium, which effects neuromuscular reactions and sodium balance, and chances are excellent that you'll be constipated. Without proper and timely intestinal function your b vitamins and K aren't created properly...

You see where I'm going with this.

how do you up your D3?

Does the D2 actually help me?

Where can I find more information?

Thanks,
Carina

You raise D3 gradually week by week. You can up it by 400 IU a week, by 1000 IU a week or by 2000 IU a week until you get where you feel "normal" or energized or pain free or not SAD.


D2 is man made vitamin D. It's less stable and less effective than natural vitamin D, D3.


There is a ton of information in the Vitamin D Experiment thread. You can get there by clicking on the link under my signature.

I'll go read your thread.. but I guess I wasn't specific enough with my question...

If it's in pill form isn't it man made?

HOW do you measure - get - consume - whatever it is you do to get D3 in your body if it's not man made?

Sorry. Cholecalciferol is the naturally occurring form of vitamin D. Natural vitamin D, D3, is manufactured from fish liver oils which naturally contain high amounts of vitamin D. It is dried and put into pill form, capsules, or mixed with oil and put into gelcaps.

Manmade vitamin D, D2, is produced by irradiating a chemical called ergesterol, converting it to ergocalciferol (Vitamin D2). Ergesterol is produced by a fungus, so named because it was first isolated from a fungus growing on rye (ergot).

So in this case the distinction is between a produced naturally occurring substance and a chemically created substance.

That's how the supplements are created.

Your body naturally creates vitamin D when in the sun

from the cholecalciferol-council.com

Cholecalciferol is the naturally occurring form of vitamin D. It is sometimes called vitamin D3. It is the substance made in large quantities in your skin when sunlight strikes your bare skin. It can also be taken as a supplement. Cholecalciferol is vitamin D; all other compounds are either metabolic products or chemical modifications.

2. Calcidiol, [25(OH)D] is a prehormone in your blood that is directly made from cholecalciferol. When being tested for vitamin D deficiency, calcidiol is the only blood test that should be drawn. When someone refers to vitamin D blood levels, they are usually referring to calcidiol levels. Your doctor can order calcidiol levels but both your doctor and the lab will know the calcidiol blood test as 25-hydroxy-vitamin D.

3. Calcitriol [1,25(OH)D] is made from calcidiol in the kidneys and in tissues and is the most potent steroid hormone derived from cholecalciferol. In fact, it is the most potent steroid hormone in the human body. It is sometimes referred to as the active form of vitamin D. Calcitriol levels should never be used to determine if you are deficient in vitamin D.

I thought I would give you some of the evidence on which I based my theory of vitamin D's importance in obesity and insulin resistance.

Vit D_Obesity_Insulin

Treatment of Obesity With Vitamin D
This study is not yet open for patient recruitment.
Verified by University of Tromso September 2005
http://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct/show/NCT00243256

Decreased bioavailability of vitamin D in obesity1,2,3
Jacobo Wortsman, Lois Y Matsuoka, Tai C Chen, Zhiren Lu and Michael F Holick
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/72/3/690

Inadequate vitamin D status: Does it contribute to the disorders comprising syndrome ‘X’?
Boucher, B. J.1
http://<br /> http://www.ingentaco...53dc152d8667e07

Concentrations of Serum Vitamin D and the Metabolic Syndrome Among U.S. Adults
Earl S. Ford, MD, MPH1, Umed A. Ajani, MBBS, MPH1, Lisa C. McGuire, PHD1 and Simin Liu, MD, SCD2,3
http://<br /> http://care.diabetes.../full/28/5/1228

Hypovitaminosis D is associated with insulin resistance and ß cell dysfunction1,2,3
Ken C Chiu, Audrey Chu, Vay Liang W Go and Mohammed F Saad
http://<br /> http://www.ajcn.org/...stract/79/5/820

The effect of vitamin D3 on insulin secretion and peripheral insulin sensitivity in type 2 diabetic patients.
Borissova AM, Tankova T, Kirilov G, Dakovska L, Kovacheva R.
http://<br /> http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_DocSum

Vitamin D endocrine system and the genetic susceptibility to diabetes, obesity and vascular disease. A review of evidence.
Reis AF, Hauache OM, Velho G.
http://<br /> http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

Altered Calcium Homeostasis Is Correlated With Abnormalities of Fasting Serum Glucose, Insulin Resistance, and {beta}-Cell Function in the Newfoundland Population.
Sun G, Vasdev S, Martin GR, Gadag V, Zhang H http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...l=pubmed_docsum

Regulation of multiple insulin-like growth factor binding protein genes by 1alpha,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3.
Matilainen M, Malinen M, Saavalainen K, Carlberg C.
http://<br /> http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

Vitamin D and diabetes.
Mathieu C, Gysemans C, Giulietti A, Bouillon R.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...l=pubmed_DocSum

Relationship between fasting serum glucose, age, body mass index and serum 25 hydroxyvitamin D in postmenopausal women.
Need AG, O'Loughlin PD, Horowitz M, Nordin BE.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...l=pubmed_DocSum

Serum 25-Hydroxyvitamin D, Diabetes, and Ethnicity in the Third National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey
Robert Scragg, PHD1, MaryFran Sowers, PHD2 and Colin Bell, PHD3
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cg...full/27/12/2813

Lack of effect of vitamin D administration during pregnancy and early life on diabetes incidence in the non-obese diabetic mouse.
Hawa MI, Valorani MG, Buckley LR, Beales PE, Afeltra A, Cacciapaglia F, Leslie RD, Pozzilli P.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...Pager&DB=pubmed

Expression of 25-hydroxyvitamin D3-1alpha-hydroxylase in pancreatic islets.
Bland R, Markovic D, Hills CE, Hughes SV, Chan SL, Squires PE, Hewison M.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...l=pubmed_DocSum

Oral administration of 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3 completely protects NOD mice from insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus.
Zella JB, McCary LC, DeLuca HF.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...l=pubmed_DocSum

The vitamin D receptor gene variant and physical activity predicts fasting glucose levels in healthy young men.
Ortlepp JR, Metrikat J, Albrecht M, von Korff A, Hanrath P, Hoffmann R.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...l=pubmed_DocSum

Identification of a Vitamin D response element in the human insulin receptor gene promoter.
Maestro B, Davila N, Carranza MC, Calle C.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...l=pubmed_DocSum

Impaired insulin secretory capacity in mice lacking a functional vitamin D receptor.
Zeitz U, Weber K, Soegiarto DW, Wolf E, Balling R, Erben RG.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...l=pubmed_DocSum

Adiposity in relation to vitamin D status and parathyroid hormone levels: a population-based study in older men and women.
Snijder MB, van Dam RM, Visser M, Deeg DJ, Dekker JM, Bouter LM, Seidell JC, Lips P.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...l=pubmed_docsum

The relationship between obesity and serum 1,25-dihydroxy vitamin D concentrations in healthy adults.
Parikh SJ, Edelman M, Uwaifo GI, Freedman RJ, Semega-Janneh M, Reynolds J, Yanovski JA.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...l=pubmed_DocSum

Body fat content and 25-hydroxyvitamin D levels in healthy women.
Arunabh S, Pollack S, Yeh J, Aloia JF.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...l=pubmed_DocSum

Intakes of calcium and vitamin d predict body mass index in the population of Northern Norway.
Kamycheva E, Joakimsen RM, Jorde R.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...l=pubmed_DocSum

Vitamin D receptor gene polymorphisms are associated with obesity in type 2 diabetic subjects with early age of onset.
Ye WZ, Reis AF, Dubois-Laforgue D, Bellanne-Chantelot C, Timsit J, Velho G.
http://eje-online.org/cgi/reprint/145/2/181

Like I said, that's some of the evidence. There's more.

And this sampling is just on D's connection to obesity and insulin regulation, not on the myriad other instances where vitamin D status has significance for health.

Zuleikaa, Thanks for the info, I had no idea about vitamin D. I went and got some today. I read in one of your posts, it may have been at the vitamin d experiment about all the vitamins that you take and that you order them at a discount. Where do you get your vitamins from?

Thanks!

Zuleikaa,

I bought some Vit D and have been taking it on your recommendation for about a week or so....maybe a little longer. I started taking it the day before xmas day. Anyway, I wanted to ask....I have been taking 400 IU per day - (what does IU mean?) Does it sound like that's enough to you? Should I take more than that do you think? The pack says 1 tablet a day, but obviously I'm always a bit dubious about that as that must be based on someone of a normal weight range.

I wanted to let you know that I started taking Vit D and glucosamine (I have severe back pain)

I gained 9lbs over two days eating garbage - christmas eve and christmas day was awful for me for food, I just ate FAR too much fat/cals and carbs, and usually those 9lbs would have stuck like heck. But I have lost all of it within 4 days. This is totally unheard of for me. Seriously, in the past I would have had to vertually stop eating in order to get rid of the weight, and then it would have taken me at least 2 weeks hard work to get rid of it.

Now this could be coincidence, it could have more to do with the glucosamine than the Vit D - because I started them at the same time I guess I won't know, but I'm willing to believe that since starting out on both things I have started to lose weight a lot easier.
Long may it continue - that's what I say!

And on the subject of my SAD, the symptoms of it have been halved since last week. I was at the lowest I had been for ages, I felt almost suicidal at times, and the Vitamin D has lifted my spirits to a completely different level.

Thank you for the hard work and commitment you have regarding Vit D - there will always be people who don't believe in this or that, but the fact is, they can make their own decisions to take it or not to take it. I have read most of the info you put out there for people, and I have to say a lot of it made perfect sense to me.

I am going to continue taking it because I KNOW it is making me feel better.

Thanks hon!

I purchase my vitamins from swansonvitamins.com. I've found they have the most consistent low prices around.