I think when we are in the losing mode of dieting there is a "HIGH" associated with it. If U havent seen someone for a couple months the praise and awe of their congrats is wonderful. We definitely need to train ourselves to rethink. To feel good about ourselves for what we have accomplished and to each day stay committed to a low-carb way of life because we are all just one big piece of pie away from triggering our addiction again.

This is the third time I have replied to you. The first two times, my post disappeared as I hit the submit button.

Have talked to Wa'il about it and hopefully this time will be the keeper !

Anyway, I wrote:


And you asked:


I am not sure what you mean. I think you mean do I get to the point when I am having a "fat" feeling day that I get the "to hell with it all" mentality and give myself permission to jump off the wagon and stuff myself with as many carbs as I can?

Noooo. I have just been trying harder to pay more attention to how my body feels on a daily basis. There are so many things that affect us like stress, water retention, monthly cycles, something wonderful to celebrate, etc. I just find it interesting that there are those days when I feel really fat even though I am 28 lbs lighter than I was in February. Come to think of it, back in the years when I was 110 - 115 lbs I had the exact same feelings some days. It's not that I really think I am fat, but its how my body feels to me.

Another interesting thing is that sometimes that really "fat" feeling is often followed by a "whooshy" feeling a few days later and then I drop a lb. Go figure.

But as to old ways of thinking fat thoughts, I don't think so in the sense you mean. I have had to rethink how different kinds of food affect me and undo some of the popular "education" I have been taught. To tell the truth, I never did buy into the low fat/low calorie thing. That's why I have never been on any diets. DH has been telling me for years I am going to drop dead from clogged arteries because I like butter on things and always loved the much maligned dark meat on the turkey or chicken and, heaven forbid, the skin (even on the salmon). And last of all I have committed the unpardonable sin of eating the fat on the steak and pork chop more than once!

And though I will admit I have a sweet tooth and was addicted to chocolate in recent years--it was never in an uncontrolled way--not an every day thing or when I did have it had to eat it all at once sort of thing. I don't think I have issues with food (that I know of) except that I like it a lot Seriously, I don't think I have ever used food as a substitute for love or companionship, for comfort or to reward myself or anything like that. But I do love having a good meal accompanied by friends and good conversation and laughs. That is my idea of heaven. Or one of them anyway.

As I am writing this, I am thinking of an experiment that was conducted with children. They were given some work to do along with a cookie. They were told that they could eat the cookie right away or they could wait until the work was finished and then receive another cookie as well. I identify with the kids who could control their impulses in order to get a greater reward.

I think it's a matter of perspective and choices and education. No matter how much I want to be the child that can do what I want to do (i.e. eat what I want to eat) w/o paying any consequences, the reality of life is that there are good and bad consequences to every choice made. I have to be mature enough to know what the choices are, what the choices will bring and then make my choices and face the consequences accordingly (that means w/o whining and laying blame if I make a bad choice).

Since I discovered this forum, I have read a lot of your comments and think that you are a voice of calm and reason and you don't beat around the bush. I have noticed you being quite firm with the odd person who seems to think that there is going to be a quick fix for their weight problems or who want to jump into the program feet first w/o knowing what it's all about or who expect help with things they can figure out all on their own by reading the books/articles or the helpful threads here. That never ceases to amaze me.

Anyway, as I have already said. This is an interesting thread and has given me a lot to think about and mull over in my mind.

Have you any further thoughts?

Take care & ciao!

What I mean by "old way of thinking fat thoughts" are thoughts and feelings of being useless, unsuccessful, depressed, worthless, frustrated, angry, lonely, tired...



I identify with this because I'm a sugar addict. Why have only one cookie, when you can get two? I also used to eat all the chocolate Girl Guide cookies first, because the vanilla ones were the best. I would be practically in a trance, working through the box and knowing the great vanilla reward would come.

You seem comfortable with this WOE and with making choices that are right for you. Why do you think people fall off the low carb wagon into the depths of carb-dom?

I know when I binge on carbs, it takes at least a week to feel good again so I wonder what kind of impulse pushes people to feel that bad for that long and gain their weight back at the same time. I think feeling really physically awful after carbs affects long termers more so than short termers.

Karen

This spoke to me. I had to answer. I think they (we) do so because all our lives we have been bombarded with the idea that what we want/ need should automatically come to us. The silver platter notion of life. My mother used to accuse me of this when I was a child / teenager. We expect to have an easy lot in life, working for things just isnt in the cards for most of us. Dealing with an addiction is hard. It's work every day, every meal. I remember being frustrated and unhappy and thinking "if everyone else can eat what they want then so can I dammit" Of course I can't. I think falling off the wagon is like putting up the white flag without realizing you're doing it. Of course sometimes we know exactly what we are doing, even if we don't know why. The notion that life is work, hard work, every day can be overwhelming at times.

It's not laziness, it's more like falling back on old habits, on letting go of that responsibility that LC entails. The responsibility to take care of yourself and work at making your life better.

My ramblings.
Nat

I see what you mean about the feelings of being worthless, useless, etc. And of course, I got the irony of me saying I could wait for the extra cookie because I can control my impulses and you saying you could wait because you would want the extra sugar/cooke!

But you certainly brought up a good point about how we can get so down on ourselves that we end up not just giving up but practically doing ourselves in before we get back on track.

I have had lots of feelings of failure and have been mad at myself for stupid decisions. I have felt awfully small when I have inadvertently offended someone or given s/o a bed impression of me but I can't say I have ever felt worthless. I know I am special. Not in the sense that I think I am better than anyone else (on the contrary). I just know that I am of worth.

Now, all that said, I have had just this same conversation before with others when we have pondered on why there are some kids in a family who have been abused or raised by alcoholic parents, or whatever who manage to become really successful and overcome the obstacles of their childhood and the other kids get mired down in the same patterns as their parents. What is it at the core of those children that makes the difference? Methinks it is that sense of self worth. Some people already have it and some people need a lot more encouragement or nurturing or whatever to believe in themselves. What do you think? I also think the bottom line is (in agreement with good ol' Dr. Phil as in Opera Winfrey Dr. Phil) that if no one else is going to give us the love we need, we have to give it to ourselves.

I hope I am not coming across all pompous sounding because I don't mean to be. This really is something that I have pondered on before. I have a younger sister that suffers from bi-polar disorder (recent diagnosis) and she has made a lot of what you could call dumb mistakes that everyone else has seen but she hasn't. Bottom line is that her self-esteem is lacking but for the life of me I can't figure out why when we grew up in the same house with the same parents and she had so many more privileges than I did (me being the eldest, responsible one who had to break the ground, so to speak). She comes across as more aggressive, outspoken and she has that sense of entitlement about everything that Nat mentioned in her post. Like she deserves the things that others have or have obtained w/o having to do the work herself.

I have to admit it baffles me because I don't understand that mentality at all.

Dear LC S,

Your post has really “touched the tender spot” on something that has been worrying me for the past few months. Thank goodness these forums exist. If I was to try and discuss such matters with any of my friends (they don’t appreciate LC) I would be laughed out of court.

I achieved my goal weight through LC dieting early last year and without doubt one of the great parts of it was the buzz I gained from my new look and the remarks (mostly complimentary!) that my friends made. In short, I felt 10 feet tall!

Now, 18 months later, I am still the same height and only 3 pounds heavier and pretty much stuck into the LC WOL. However, it has not all been easy. I don’t count carbs, never did. I just followed the LC principal and it worked fine. Weight is still OK and I am much healthier and fitter for it.

However, I often feel the “buzz” has now gone (perhaps nobody now notices any change!). I suspect that now I am “static”, the initial euphoria has evaporated and it seems that life is somehow back to its old ways.

I am sorry to say I don’t have any answers to your concerns; I can only share them. I intend to stay with this WOL and I know deep down it is the right way ahead. There have been some excellent posts in rely to you and I hope you have gained as much encouragement from them as I have.

Yours aye,
Scotsman

Scotsman - what an encouraging post! I feel much better having read it.

Thank you for taking the time to write it.

Sincerely,
Victoria

I know exactly what you're talking about Scotsman. I sometimes wish I could go back to being a LC "virgin" again. I miss that buzz, but I suppose it's like any relationship you get really comfortable with. May be the trick is "learning how to be in love with LC for the rest of your life!" Sounds pretty hokey, but it could be true.

Karen

So, now we're LC maidens? Matrons? LOL! Perhaps the maintenance logo could be a circle with a marishino cherry in it and a line through. Wa'il could probably make one up for us.

(Did I say that? I'm just goofin' around, that's all, just goofin' around!!)

Seriously, yes, Karen the bloom is off the low carb rose, but it's all uphill from here.

I like the "cherry" idea LC S!

It's all "uphill" sounds like a chore (like I have to start exercising or something ) , but having it all "downhill" would be worse!

I think you get feelings of self worth Homegirl, from doing worthy acts. You should do them for yourself, but it's also very important to do them for your community.

Part of the problem - as Nat said - is wanting instant results. Actually working at something and watching it develop and grow is a great thing, but it also takes practice and patience. So does learning how to make decisions for the long run and not just the short term. Too many people live by their feelings instead of by "doing the right things." Many will act out of greed or pride - or any of the Seven Deadly Sins - instead of looking at the pros and cons.

You may have had influences that taught or led you to developing a life enhancing set of values and ethics, and your sister did not. Some people have to hit bottom before they realize that they have to do something and some hit bottom and stay there. No matter where they end up, they will find a group of like-minded people...which serves to reinforce their behaviour.

Karen

Ok this post isnt in Daily or Bootcamp so *I* can't move it; I think it deserves a home in PPP.

Nat

Hi - I'm new to the forum, just having joined a couple of days ago, but this subject is precisely why I joined. I haven't lost ALL the weight I planned to originally, but I have lost enough that I've gotten plenty of the "buzz" everyone is referring to. And after a while everyone at work, friends, etc., have gotten over the stunned looks... plus the dramatic 15 pounds in 2 weeks stage is over and it's more like 2-3 pounds per 2 weeks, on average.

But I guess my comment would be that the best thing for maintenance (for me, at least) is to read that other people have hit the same walls. That might or might not help everyone, but as someone mentioned earlier it's helpful to have others who know about the LC lifestyle.

OK, hopefully I can add more later, but I just wanted to pitch in and say thanks for the earlier comments in this thread.

Hey Nat, let's let it hang here for a while to see if anything else develops. PPP can be its ultimate resting place.

Karen

Gwilson posted a link to this article on the daily low carber.

But it's SO relevant for here. that I put it here as well. The part where the author states about being addicted TO LOSING weight jumped right off the page at me. It's so close to what I said to Karen about re-gaining so you can lose....

If a person can't switch the focus of the addiction to a harmless target (is there such a thing??) or deal with it completely, then food will become the target once again... Once the weight goal is met - it's vital to re-examine oneself to find out why we got fat in the first place. It's not an examination that can be fully made while we are focussed on the losing process.... only at goal.

This is such an interesting topic.

IMO Self-worth isn't something someone can give you. Ya either got it, or ya ain't.

I'm one of the 'survivors' you are talking about.

In fact, I'm having lunch with my father today (his invitation) --haven't spoken to him in 6 years. Have seen him face to face only about 4 times in the last 20 years. I have a family who works hard at making me feel small. So they are not people with whom I choose to associate.

Meanwhile I have turned out extraordinarily successful, gifted and happy. So what do I think about lunch? Well, the look on his face as I pick the bread off my sandwich should be pretty good.