From our nutrient data tool (carb counter), which is based on the latest USDA release 17 ... here are counts for other beef organ meats ..

- vit C in mg, per 100g cooked food (braised in liquid)..

- spleen: 50.3mg
- pancreas: 20.3mg
- lung: 32.7mg
- thymus: 30.2mg
- brain (raw): 16.6mg
- kidney(raw): 9.4mg

From the Canadian Nutrient File ... moose, caribou, beaver, muskrat, polar bear, whale, walrus and seal typically had 3-7mg vit C per 100g muscle meat. Vit C content tends to be proportionally higher in the organs and glands; unfortunately I couldn't find any data about those .. except for moose liver, which comes in at 22.6mg vit C per 100g cooked. Perhaps the further north one goes, the animals produce greater amounts of vit C? Just a guess though.

cheers,

Doreen

Interesting Doreen! I gotta get more muskrat spleen in my diet!

I wouldn't think that the folks that are really far north would have rose hips. Probably any sort of greenery they'd get would have to be from roots.

Just for reference, 100 grams converts to 3.5 ounces.
It's also interesting to note that when Vitamin C is in short supply, the kidneys reabsorb it from the urine.

[QUOTE=Gee1]Eggs are no doubtedly good for you, but are they better then veggies, lets see:....


I'm a bit curious why you think that because some vegetables have more of certain vitamins and minerals than animal products, then they are a 'healthier' part of the human diet. I thought we were trying to establish wether animal products supplied ADEQUATE levels of all the known vitamins and minerals. The point is surely that many fruits and vegetables also contain glycemic carbs which the members of this forum are well on the way to discovering are the source of not only weight gain but most disease. This is not a competition about which foods win your 'gold medal' for particular vitamins and minerals, but which foods in combination contain adequate amounts of all of them and a minimal amount of the glycemic carbs which cause all the problems. The contributors to this thread have argued persuasively that an all animal products diet does this. It has also been pointed out that modern pollutants make the additional consumption of low glycemic vegetables and fruit a prudent improvement on an all animal product diet. I don't think any of the people here who accept that an all animal product diet can be really healthy are not choosing to eat large quantities of low glycemic fruit and vegetables because they add variety, taste and many antioxidants which help our bodies cope with the appalling toll of environmental pollution. I'm also hoping the real cause of the bleeding problems of the Inuit is clear to you now?

While I am the first to concede that an all animal diet would be pretty boring, perhaps the contributions to this thread are making you more comfortable with it being not only perfectly healthy in its own right, but more importantly much more healthy than any diet which includes glycemic carbs.

[QUOTE=dina1957]Fatburner:
You mixed kidney and liver. A cup of cooked kidney has only 1.33g of carbs, it's the liver that contains 10g.

Oops!

Becuase they rarely contain bacteria that can kill you,and unlike with meats, you don;t HAVE to cook them to be safe.You HAVE heard of a mad cow desease. Secondly, because meats contain saturated fat and veggies/fruits rarely do.Thirdly they do contain all the vit/min that meats do, are testier and more variable option,so in addition to the first two,I'd say,a BETTER and SAFER option.



In a way. And we have seen that they don;t. But essentially this thread is about weather on Atkins, vegetables are a MUST or an OPTION.



Which is why fruit is not allowed or allowed in limited quantities on Atkins. As for deseases, I dont think carbs can claim responsibility for MOST deseases. Some yes. Not most.



Not MY goldmedal. IT's gold medal. I don;t put vit and min into plants. And although this is not a competition true, this is nevertheless an important discussion which should enlighten and teach many about the quality of vegetables,cos many refuse to eat them and don;t realise their full importance. And since some people are suggesting that eating meat alone is perfectly healthy, now is also important for all to realise that this is in no way correct as we have seen it already, becuase it will only give an amunition to them not toeat veggies, and will suffer the consequences later in life. Just like Eskimos.So I am trying to help. What are you doing?



See, this is exactly where the people get confused. You think that just because meat is low-carb, is automatically perfectly OK to eat , and only meat!

So are the vegetables low carb. Why do you in this case then not consider vegeterian rather then Eskimo diet? Becuase on veggies alone you will be safer both carb-wise, bacteria-wise and vit/min wise.



Maybe you feel that way. I and many others are not persuaded. Cos you can;t argue the vit/min and you can;t argue the lack of bacteria in veggies.



I should hope the same. It was clear to me when I wrote it.



Pefectly healthy? Mad cow desease? Strokes? Nosebleeds that can;t stop?Yeah...Right.

When you are talking about your "healthy" meat only diet, you keep forgetting to tell people that not only they ought to eat their meat raw to get half decent amount of its benefits, but also that the same raw meat will contain a huge amount of bacteria which can kill them. Now tell me, how come nobody here on your side mentioned bacteria in your ever so "healthy" diet? And how come nobody here mentioned the vitamin deficiencies on a meat only diet? YOU think you eat veggies as a CHOICE You eat them cos you NEED them.I got 2 words for you: Vitamin C.

Gee1,

Only contaminated meats have bacteria that can kill you, just like contaminated vegetables have bacteria that can kill you. I have read numerous health articles that say that vegetables must be throughly washed before eating to remove bacteria and pesticide residue.

Mad cow disease is extremly rare. More people die from eating poisonous mushrooms each year than from mad cow.

Yes, meats have more saturated fats than most vegetables, but what does that have to do with what was being discussed?

Vegetables contain no vitamin B12. That vitamin only comes from meat sources.

Whether vegetables are tastier than meats is a personal preference. In my experience, most childern do not like to eat vegetables, but readily eat meat. I like my vegetables better if they have an animal based flavoring,; butter or cheese are my favorites.

I agree that over cooking meat can reduce its nutrient content, just like over cooking vegetables can reduce their nutrient content. Cooking meats, just like cooking vegetables can make some nutrients more absorbable.

There is no problem with bacteria in meat, unless it has been contaminated. Just like there is no problem with bacteria in vegetables, unless they have been contaminated. The contamination comes from the food handling/processing system and is due to human mistakes, not due to an intrinsic property of the meat or vegetable. Not all meat is contaminated, just like not all vegetables are contaminated.

I think that previous posts have put the rest the vitamin C controversy, but as a counter two words to you: vitamin B12.

I was under the impression that cooking doesn't protect you from Mad Cow? E coli, yes... trichinosis, yes... but I've been told the organism responsible for BSE can't be destroyed by cooking.

Yes, you are correct.

While I think veggies are healthy and wonderful, I do grow them in cow shit, so I don't know exactly how bacteria free they are.

We can contract E-coli from anything that comes into contact with animal feces, because it's where the E-coli resides. While it doesn't bother animals, it can be deadly to humans. The problem with the meat processing that if can contaminate the meat surafce if the animal bowel gets panctured. But it's enough to cook large peaces of beef for internal temperature of 145 for 3 minutes, it will destroy E-Coli. The only probelm is with undercooked hamburger meat, when the surface gets mixed with internal part. There is another concern of eating undercooked or raw meat besides E-Coli, it's parasites.
http://www.kt.iger.bbsrc.ac.uk/FACT...0files/kt37.pdfIn order to destroy them , the meat should be cooked all the way through until well done. I try to avoid eating meat roasted at a high temperature, fried and BBQd , so I like to brase or stew beef or lamb on a low temperature. This works best with cuts like short ribs, shanks, rather than a steak. But then we are getting parts close to bone marrow and spinal cord. This is where we should be concern about getting BSE aka mad cow desease since it mostly affects brain and spinal cord of the animal. The causing protein like agent is not destroyed by heating, even at a higher temperature. So, while beef is a great source of B12, there is enough of B12 in dairy (milk and yougurt) and eggs. WE can also get vegetables and fruits contaminated with E-coli if they are not washed (especially strawberry and lettuce ) properly. In modern agriculture when organic produce is rather a gimmick, it's all about feeedom of choice: pesticides or E-Coli, PCB and mercury or growth hormones and BSE . Not much left to eat, if you think about it. While we can avoid contaminated veggies and fruits by simply washing them thorough, it's hard to avoid mad cow desease. Until ADA will start to sample every slautered cow and sheep, no one is safe. But it does not mean that I don't eat beef and lamb, I just buy grass fed from a local farm and cook it thorough. I also think that vegetables and fruits are far more safer choice than meat.

I vote for veggies, too! In fact, DD and I just discovered Boston Leaf Lettuce Wraps...amazingly good! You don't miss the bread at all!!!
Cath

Not true, Gee. Salad bars are a common source of food poisoning (often the lettuce or mushrooms are the culprit). E Coli can be present on vegetables as well as on meat and vegetables are often treated with pesticides and can harbor parasites as well. Unwashed raw veggies are not as benign as you think, so if you're going to eat your veggies raw, best to wash them first.
Improperly canned vegetables can contain Clostridium Botulinum (botulism), which can be deadly.



Technically, not so. Sweet fruits are limited, but the non-sweet fruits such as olives, avocados, peppers, cucumbers and tomatoes are allowed even during induction.



And the problem with saturated fats (on a low carb plan) would be...?

You are correct, potatofree. As a matter of fact, even chemicals cannot destroy it. I read a study where brain electrodes from the brain of an infected chimp were sterilized with both formaldehyde and fire, then were locked away for an extended period of time. The electrodes were then inserted into the brain of another chimp, which then contracted the disease.

It's not actually even considered an organism that causes mad cow, it is a mutant protein (I think it is called a prion).

I didn't know what it was called either.... "organism" sounded better than "Cootie" or "yucky thing" though.