I haven't been on this board a long time. I admit I mostly stayed for the politics and have been mourning the demise of the Current Affairs Forum. No do I have 100 pounds to lose. However, I have read many posts, and while I wouldn't want to label anyone disfunctional, I have seen some pretty strange obsessive attitudes. You all can comment or not on whether these signal ED.

1. People who weight 110 and want to lose 10 more pounds.

2. People who go on drinking significant quantities of alcohol yet claim they are doing induction.

3. People who use induction as a way of life.

4. People who think calories don't count.

5. People who think the PETA people are THE ENEMY.

6. People describe what they are eating and ignore the fact that they are consuming great quantities of fat.

7. People who regard in attack on Atkins as a form of terrorism.

9. People who seem to have no life beyond their food restriction/consumption.

10. People who think all fats are created equal or all carbs are created equal.

I don't know about ED, but, hey, denial sure does exist here.

The Atkins book says there is nothing wrong with this and it's not dangerous in the least. Why do you think it is a problem? I'm curious.



This probably isn't a problem though. Remember, on Atkins, fat is not the enemy. In fact, a suggested ration is 70/20/5 of fat/protein/carbs. When you cut out carbs, your body has to use something for energy, and breaking down strands of protein takes a lot of work, so fat becomes the fuel of choice. We've been told for the past 25 years that fat is bad for us, but if they're eating the food that's on the "safe list" than there shouldn't be a problem.

These points could certainly indicate dysfunctional behaivor, but I'm not sure why you think they do. Can you expound on your thoughts?

After trying repeatedly and failing to lose weight (actually gained and my cholesterol went way up) on the Paleo diet I realized that all my problems with food are psychological. I don't know whether I truly have an ED or am on the verge of one but I discovered that my emotional eating has caused all of my problems.

For me it's not a physical addiction to carbs. It's all emotional.

-J

From the website:

How long can I stay on Induction?

The longer you consume no more than 20 grams of carbs daily, the more body fat you will burn. Depending on how much weight you need to lose, you can safely continue with Induction as long as the following three conditions are met:

• Your blood chemistries, lipid values, blood pressure or blood sugar levels continue to improve or remain stable and within normal limits.
• You feel well and are experiencing a high energy level, normal sleep patterns and stable moods.
• You are not bored. Boredom could lead to cheating and undermine your efforts.

However, it is important to understand the entire Atkins Nutritional ApproachTM. The ultimate goal of the program is to advance from the Induction phase through Ongoing Weight Loss and Pre-Maintenance, culminating in Lifetime Maintenance, which should become your permanent way eating. By following these steps, you can find your Critical Carbohydrate Level for Losing (CCLL), also known as your carbohydrate threshold for losing, and ultimately your Atkins Carbohydrate Equilibrium (ACE), also known as your carbohydrate threshold for maintaining. Segueing from one phase to another will help you maintain a healthful weight, feel good and decrease your risk factors for chronic diseases such as heart disease, hypertension and diabetes.

That being said, if you have a great deal of weight to lose, you can certainly stay on Induction for six months or even more. When you switch to Ongoing Weight Loss, your rate of loss will naturally diminish. On the other hand, if you have a modest weight loss goal, say 20 pounds, and lose the first pounds rapidly, it is important to move through the more liberal phases so you can establish the good eating habits that will become part of your ongoing lifestyle and end yo-yo dieting.

um, what is ED? the only ED I know of is from the TV commercials featuring loving couples in bathtubs or Bob Dole or.. you know what I mean, heh heh...

and by the way, PETA IS the enemy!

Hee!

Here ED means Eating Disorder.

-J

1. People who weight 110 and want to lose 10 more pounds.

assuming they are not 4 foot then yes ED

2. People who go on drinking significant quantities of alcohol yet claim they are doing induction.

maybe more of a alchohol problem rather than ED

3. People who use induction as a way of life.

erm difficult after getting near goal it may be ED

4. People who think calories don't count.

not ED

5. People who think the PETA people are THE ENEMY.

The way I see it PETA are making themselves the enemy of not only the low carb groups but others too. I happen to believe in some of their aims I signed the petition to ban fox hunting but also believe the numbers have to be kept in check, I just dont think hunting them down with a pack of dogs is the way to do it. I detest cruelty to animals and hate the fur coat wearing brigade but I think that sheepskin and leather are fine as we eat most of the rest of these creatures. I hate battery farming but have kept and killed chicken for food. so not ED

6. People describe what they are eating and ignore the fact that they are consuming great quantities of fat.

I truely believe that fat is not a problem while low carbing. not ED

7. People who regard in attack on Atkins as a form of terrorism.

not ED most of these people are so pleased to have found a way of eating that works and believe it will help many people also and so get a little miffed when other knock it down without any form of proof.

9. People who seem to have no life beyond their food restriction/consumption.

Maybe ED if they have no other aims.

10. People who think all fats are created equal or all carbs are created equal.

I think misinformed is more likely than ED

While not dissing Atkins, at the same time you can't argue Atkins by simply quoting Atkins. In order to present a logical arugument for Atkins or anything else, you must quote an outside unbiased source.

Umm...Fluffy can I point out that most outside supposedly unbiased sources tell us that anything less than 45% of our caloric intake from carb sources is unhealthy?
The topic in question is whether or not a person can stay at induction levels of carb for a prolonged period of time or indefinitely. Since Atkins is one of the few plans that requires an induction phase (South Beach being the other that I know of), it seems only fair and reasonable to refer back to the guidelines of that plan for an answer.
While I don't think staying at induction levels of carb for prolonged periods is a good strategy and would definitely become boring after a prolonged period of time, I don't believe that it's physically harmful to do so and it seems that Dr. Atkins agreed.
Can doing that be a sign of an ED? Sure. But it's not an automatic sign of one.

I'm not sure if those 10 would all classify as an ED but they def are all a DE--disordered eating. Really, cutting out any group of food is disordered eating. Actually, even "dieting" with caloric restriction might be disordered eating in that its not the WOL. But, for me, it's between Low carb disordered eating until i reach "phase 3" or what not versus an actual binge eating ED.... just a thought

Trustycat, I think it would be wise to first define why a person cuts out an entire food group before labeling it disordered eating. For example, many people are allergic to dairy or have severe allergies to grains or nuts. Is cutting them out of their diet disordered eating or a smart strategy for long-term survival? Now how about a person who exhibits strong negative physical reactions to highly processed high carb foods or high GI foods?
Also, when a low carb program is followed correctly, no food group is permanently excluded, unless one considers sugar a food group.
The basic food groups are grains and legumes, protein, fruits, vegetables, dairy and fats. The only one of those groups excluded, even during the induction phase of Atkins, is grains which are wholly overrated as to their nutritional value and nuts due to their carb content. Grains and nuts are added back later in the program and are not excluded permanently. Same thing with sweet fruits (non-sweet fruits such as avocados, cucumbers, peppers, olives and tomatoes are allowed even during induction).
Excessive drinking of alcohol is not DE or ED, it's substance abuse.
A few things on that list above don't really have anything to do with eating (1, 5 and 7).
Really, when it comes down to it, ED or DE has a lot less to do with what you are or are not eating than it does with a person's relationship and thought process towards food and body image.

Hi CT--been missin ya!


I read your post this morning and have been thinking about it all day.

I wasn't sure what you meant by ED as it could mean Emotional Disorder, Eating Disorder or Erectile Dysfunction!

I don't think the things you listed would be truly classified as an eating disorder, but I do believe they could possibly be classified as an emotional disorder, with the exception of what a person thinks of PETA. (well maybe THAT too).

As some people have noticed by my profile, I have tried almost every low carb eating plan out there and nothing seems to work for me. So........could it be the problem is with me. Of course! I can't stay on a diet to save my life (literally and figuratively speaking) and it worries me. At 58, I have some pretty ingrained eating habits that are hard to break. The worst is my coffee habit which began in college. I have tried to break it but find it is just as hard as some people tell me stopping smoking is. I don't drink coffee because I like the taste that much, but because it relaxes me. Yes, I know that sounds weird , but its true. It gives me a chance to sit down for a few minutes and relax. Of course coffee is acidic if not downright bitter (depending on the coffee and how its made) so I always have something sweet with it to counteract the acidity. THAT is my biggest problem --well that and not enough physical exercise. If I can't kick the coffee, then I have a hard time kicking carbs because no one I know would eat meat with coffee at a coffee break--at least I wouldn't. I have about 2-4 coffee breaks a day. If I could kick this habit, I think I could stay on any diet. So between my fondness (or weakness) for coffee and the fact that most diets are difficult to maintain, I am not winning the fat war. I consider being addicted to anything--coffee, alcohol smoking, etc. an emotional disorder or at least something that needs to be addressed from the perspective of the emotions rather than blaming the food itself. No one puts any type of food in another person's mouth. It is our responsibility to control our own eating.The only way I can lose weight is to eat less and exercise more. I know there is no magic bullet. The older I get the harder it is for me to lose weight and keep it off.

As far as staying on induction. I have been on this board long enough to see other people do as I do and change their WOE several times as well as "re-induct" umpteen jillion times or stay on induction forever. If Atkins works the way Dr. Atkins says it should, they wouldn't have to do that over and over and over again. In my opinion, Atkins can work but is difficult to sustain for a number of reasons just like most diets. And Atkins was the one who labeled it a diet--not me. So if people want to use it or abuse it, more power to them, but I just want to cut back and try to live a normal lifestyle without smashed cauliflower masqaruerding as potatoes and having to eat sponge bob low carb bread which tastes like a soggy dish cloth.

So success or failure IMO always rests squarely upon the shoulders of the individual and if they have an ED (eating disorder, emotional disorder and ESPECIALLY erectile dyfuntion) they should see a doctor to try to resolve those problems before trying any diet.

Good points, Fluffybear.

I decided several weeks back to just stop "dieting" and figure out how to deal with my emotional issues with food. It's really hard but I have made some progress. I expect it will take months to really sort out but I feel much better.

I got a really good book called Fed Up! by Dr. Wendy Oliver-Pyatt and she basically talks about fixing your relationship with food and not dieting anymore or depriving oneself of any type of food. It's about realizing you can trust yourself again. I like it. It's been helping me a lot.

-J

1. People who weight 110 and want to lose 10 more pounds.

Maybe, unless they're short and otherwise teeny.

2. People who go on drinking significant quantities of alcohol yet claim they are doing induction.

Misguided, in denial maybe, but not in and of itself a sign of ED.

3. People who use induction as a way of life.

Possibly, but only if they really are truly afraid of going over 20, or when they stop losing, turn to repeated rounds of fat fasting or worse.

4. People who think calories don't count.

...are in for a rude awakening eventually, but not ED.

5. People who think the PETA people are THE ENEMY.

May or may not have a point.

6. People describe what they are eating and ignore the fact that they are consuming great quantities of fat.

Maybe people who describe what they're eating, in glowing detail, lovingly and with great feeling... or conversely, extreme loathing or shame.

7. People who regard in attack on Atkins as a form of terrorism.

There are zealots of every persuasion... not necessarily a sign of ED.

9. People who seem to have no life beyond their food restriction/consumption.

Could be a sign, IMO. OR it could be that it's what they DISCUSS when they go to a low-carbing board?

10. People who think all fats are created equal or all carbs are created equal.

If they think any food is the devil incarnate, or have a greatly exaggerated fear of carbs of ALL kinds... maybe.


I don't know about ED, but, hey, denial sure does exist here.

As it does anywhere, really. I do know what you mean, and I agree with some of what you're saying.

Hi pepperlg. You asked for my clarification on two points that I made:





You zeroed in on my weak points for sure. Nevertheless I will give my POV by quoting Atkins himself:



Atkins is saying that calories count. If calories count then to eat enormous quantities of fat is to consume more calories. And we cannot ignore that fat is a calorie dense food.

I believe people who stay on Induction for a very long time do so because they are often not losing the desired amount of weight. One of the reasons they may not be losing the desired amount of weight is that they are simply consuming too many calories.

There are other dangers to heavy fat consumption (besides the gastrointestinal ones). I believe many people who are consuming heavy amounts of fat are consuming bad fats. Transfats are truly evil. Yet how many people consuming great quantities of fat can honestly say they are restricting their consumption of transfats. If they saute, fry, or deep fry they are probably consuming transfats.

Take me for instance. I have been craving fried chicken for a very long time. Crusted crispy deep fried chicken, bursting with tasty pockets of fat. I suppose a breading could be devised from pork rinds, but what would I use to fry it in? I could use Mac Nut Oil at about $12 a bottle, I would probably need at least three for deep frying. Anyone really want to pay $36 for some fried chicken?

Below are some links on transfats and smoke points. Everyone consuming fat should try to consume healthy fats. For most of us, that would mean also limiting fats unless we have an unlimited budget.

Transfats:

Explanation of

http://www.treelight.com/health/Par...enatedOils.html

Smoke points

http://missvickie.com/howto/spices/oils.html

Fats, heart disease and diabetes

http://www.jeffdevlin.com/articles/harvard.php

Cooking with fats:

http://www.crossfit.com/discus/messages/23/3589.html

Now I don't believe everything in these links are gospel, so pick them apart if you choose, because I do believe debate is very, very healthy.