Did anyone post this link yet? http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=196014

That's the discussion about the sleep/appetite thread.

Man, this week I noticed it in myself. I had two nights where I was short on sleep and 2 nights where I got great sleep and I noticed an enormous difference in my appetite... and in my feeling of well-being.

You might try getting to bed a little extra early a few nights and see if that helps the hungries. I'd say the difference for me was about the amount of calories in an additional meal.

Thanks for that link, it was a fascinating read, and may point towards something useful, though it may take a bit to figure out the best way to apply it.

For whatever it's worth, it does seem like the no sweetener experiment was NOT a success - MGW reports that giving up the sweeteners did not have an impact on her hunger, but was an annoyance because it restricted her food choices that much more.

So as of tomorrow, she will be going back to eating one or two items w/ artifical sweeteners or sugar alcohols a day. I could join her, but probably won't as I don't normally eat them anyways.

It seems that I am adapting to this WOE much better than she is. The increase in vegetables doesn't bother me as much as I thought it would, and I don't miss the pasta that I used to almost live on. (we would literally buy cases whenever it was on sale)
However, I've never been a gourmet, but instead fell into the 'food = fuel' school of thought.

To me it feels like we are eating a tremendous variety of foods (that are much more of a nusiance to fix) and I don't miss the restricted items particularly. MGW seems much more focused on all the foods that we can't have.

We recently had a conversation where she was complaining about how little sense it made that we couldn't eat most of what the local grocery store sold. It didn't seem to matter to her that we are actually now shopping in MORE of the store than we used to because even though we didn't buy most of what the store sold, we could have...

I don't get the logic - maybe its a female thing! (Maybe I'd better duck?)

Gooserider

You are dealing with a typical reaction. When a person wants to lose weight and has come to a place where it is more important than just about anything, then their attutude changes. I don't just want to be smaller, what I really want is to be healthier. I want it so much that I find changing what I eat is actually easy.

Your GF is dwelling on what she cannot eat instead of what she can. I ate a lot of chips. I now make cheese chips which have the crunch and texture and taste great so I don't really miss the potato and corn ones. I have found substitutes for foods that I liked a lot and others I have just decided are not worth risking weight gain.

It is not easy to lose weight because of physical, emotional, and mental issues. The best thing you can do is be supportive and try to understand that she is struggling. The other thing you can do is research recipes and find yummy things for her to eat so she doesn't dwell on that "other" stuff.

:nod Annie's got it right. When I start a diet I go into mourning for the foods I can't eat. Now, in the past, the end of the diet meant I'd get to eat those foods again and this, of course, was always my undoing.

Same thing happened when I started Atkins again, but I turned my sadness over losing foods into trying to find satisfying alternatives or things to take their place. After all the time I've been low carbing (1.5+ years now) I've finished grieving for those lost foods and I'm enjoying the new stuff so much I'd grieve if I had to give it up!

Its a process.

Thanks for the comment Annie and Nancy, it is about what I figured and I do keep trying to find new and different things to do, sometimes a bit experimental.

I did one tonight that came out fairly well... Last night I made some baked chicken leg 1/4's and the pan with the drippings was still out this evening. I decided that fat and aspic won't go bad that quickly, so I took and threw some pork chops in the pan dumped some powdered garlic chutney (found at the local Asian grocery) on them for flavor, (We like spicy food, me more than her) and some riced cauliflower around them, threw it in the oven at 350*F for 20 minutes. Came out great but I should have used more cauliflower.

However MGW says she's been feeling oddly the last few days, thought I'd run her symptoms by you and see if anybody recognizes it as something that goes with the LC WOL, or if there is some sort of wierd medical thing happening...

1. She seems to have developed a taste sensitivity to salt, and finds things oversalted that I can't even tell are salted.

2. She is having what appear to be gas pains to a major extent, 'venting' in large (and resounding) amounts from both ends seems to bring temporary relief; but I'm wondering where she gets it from, as the volume seems greater than any beer drinker I've ever known. It's even worse than the aftermath of a Dead Horse M/C Bean Run....

3. She tells me that both frequency and volume of bowel movements have gone down significantly, but she does NOT feel constipated, and she still chugs water like she was part camel (water consumption is one thing she's never had a problem with)

4. Her body temp regulation seems a bit off, she says she frequently feels cold (rare for her, she is normally one of those people who wears a T-shirt and no jacket in a blizzard) and her hands feel cool to me. She says this is usually one of her warning signs that she's catching something, but other than the above, she is not feeling any of the usual 'sickness' symptoms.

Is this something that folks get on the LC WOL? It sort of seems like something that might have happened during induction (which she had a bout of constipation during, but otherwise we had no problems) but we've been doing Atkins for over 11 weeks now.

Gooserider

Gooserider:

I have been reading your thread for some time, and I remember that part of the reason for trying this WOE is so that she can get pregnant. Those symptoms sound pretty darn similar to some that we women experience when P.G.! Is there any possibility of that? :-) If so, maybe a test is in order? Yay! (I hope...)

I don't think so, she is just getting to the end of her TOM... (started Friday, she usually goes about 4 days) AFAIK it was about on her normal schedule for it. Only thing odd was that she normally says there is no cramping / discomfort; but this time either she was having cramps, or it was the start of her gas pains mentioned earlier.

I could be wrong, but I thought having TOM was the surefire sign that you aren't PG, at least not this month....

Gooserider

How much sugar alcohol is she taking? That will cause that symptom. Some people are very sensitive.



Well, that's probably because she's eating less volume of food. Any diet will do that. Because low carb food tends to be more filling for the volume, she's just probably eating less. Less fiber too does that. This always happens to me when I diet.



Another symptom of dieting or reducing calorie intake. You get cold easily. Also, if she's lost some weight she's carrying around a lot less insulation. It gets worse the skinnier you get. As an example, this summer I felt perfectly comfortable when it was 80 degrees in the house, any less than that and I'd be chilly. Happens whenever my calories drop.

You're probably right, but I would test just to make sure. Many women report having "normal" TOM's during their pregnancies....some every month like clockwork. So it could happen even if it is unlikely. But since Dr. A does not recommend lc for pregnant women, at least at induction levels, it would be a good idea to test ninetheless. We wouldn't want to hurt the little guy if he is there. I'll keep fingers crossed! :-)

I got mine (TOM) for first three months of both pregnancies (1 twin, 1 single) and I have a close friend who was about 330 pounds and had TOM all nine months - never knew she was pg. Had 8 pound twins!

Yes, that's exactly what I mean! :-) I am just hypersensitive to the issue at the moment because (while I am not ttc at the moment), I am experiencing pg symptoms and have been researching them like mad! Of course, all tests show negative, but who knows? I hope a test shows positive for you Gooserider! What a wonderful Christmas present a week or so early!

Interesting analysis Nancy, but it looks to me like it's not on the money this time - Usually you do pretty well looks like, but I think this one is something different...


None, nada, zippo! This started at the END of a two week experiment consisting of getting rid of all sugar alcohols and artificial sweeteners. She said she wasn't cheating at work, and I have no reason to doubt it.

Even before we cut out the SA's we were choosing very carefully and avoiding products with significant amounts of maltitol or the other more problematic SA's. She was mostly doing the Hershey's and Z-carb bars that primarily used sucralose and erithritol.

Per the agreement we had when starting the experiment; on Monday she started the sweet stuff back up because she was still hungry. I haven't gone over all the symptoms, but she said the gas problems have subsided significantly since she started the sweeteners back up - either they are HELPING her, or it is coincidental with whatever she had going away...


Possible, but it seems strange that we would be almost 11 weeks into the WOE before that would hit. We have not had significant 'input level' changes in that time, if anything we might be eating a wee bit more. This problem was something that was only occuring over the previous 3-4 days.


Again, possible, but seems strange in the timing and the sudden onset. MGW also still has plenty of padding left She is loosing well, but still has a ways to go before she gets down even to where she was at when I first met her about 10 yrs ago. She wasn't sure what she weighed then, and I was working on building a sidecar rig that would support her, so I talked her into going with me to a place with a truck scale so I could get some engineering data. A bit of math suprised me considerably, as I had been guessing about 250, and I was 100lbs short...



Thanks Javamel & Flminivan, I hadn't realized that TOM and PG could go together, will talk to her about getting a test. Do you think one of the drugstore jobs would do it for a first go, or should we hit the MD?

(Of course if she kills the wabbit, we get the question of how we mod the WOL - DANDR doesn't talk about just what one does if getting pregnant while on induction / OWL. Presumably she should start eating more, but how much and what.... Probably would need to start a new topic on that one. )

Gooserider

I think the drug store tests are very reliable these days.

Don't underestimate how much reducing your calories can affect your temperature. When I'm really watching my calories hawkishly I'm always freezing cold. For instance, it's 75 degrees and I had to put on a thick sweater today! I've been really low on calories the last two days. You ever have the experience of eating a truly huge meal and being uncomfortably warm? This is the opposite of that. And I put in "calorie restriction temperature" into google and all kinds of stuff popped up that looked relevant. I think I'm right about this one. And then there's the "Calorie Reduction for Longevity" people and their experience is that they are cold because they lower their calories. And then, your body temperature drops when you reduce your calories.

I had an episode of "where's the poop?" during my last period. I was a little constipated but I was going. I tend to get that way when its my TOM. Anyway, it seemed like the volume was less than normal. I think in my case it was just more "compacted" than my typical poop. It reminded me of goat turds versus what is normal for me. Lighter and fluffier... well, hopefully you get the idea without me grossing you out to much.

I can't advise you much on anything else, having no children, but looks like you got lots of experts watching over you!



There's been a ton of talk about this. I think a lot of people opt to go on maintenance level of carbs. Folks that get off entirely tend to gain a lot of weight and there's a risk of gestational diabetes and stuff. There was a report in the media section recently that mouse fetuses did really well when their mom was on a ketogenic diet. But the thing I hope you're supplementing folic acid because, unless you're eaitng lots of spinach and red bell peppers and stuff like thata, you might be short on. And that's really important for fetuses and preventing birth defects. You probably know all that. The good news is that choline, which is found in eggs and meat primarily, is really good for the fetuses developing brain, at least in lab rats.

Good luck!

Yes, the drugstore ones are pretty good, but get a few and test once, and then wait a few days or a week and do it again, as sometimes they don't pick up enough of the hormone if you test too early. The First Response test (pink and white box) lets you test up to 5 days before your expected tom so that might be the best. Look carefully, because even the faintest line is a pretty reliable indicator of PG! If you get one, off to the MD for you! I hope that it is + for you. What a wonderful surprise and, even if it is not, I am sure that this woe will help make your baby dreams come true! Good luck!

Oh, and as for the WOE during PG, I would seriously just do whatever the doctor suggests. Please do not rely on medical input of wellmeaning folks (including me) on these boards who aren't privvy to MGW's actual medical charts, etc. Your doctor will be able to look at MGW's stats and tell you both what the best course of action is. MGW will gain during her pregnancy, but she will have forever to take it off afterward. It's the little bambino who matters most, IMHO, so if I am indeed PG, I will give up atkins temporarily if that is what the doctor says is best for me and my baby.