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  #31   ^
Old Sun, Oct-10-04, 12:12
Built's Avatar
Built Built is offline
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Posts: 3,661
 
Plan: Metabolic Surge
Stats: 170/139/? Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Canada's Wet Coast
Default

Okay, I hear this from time to time, the "denaturing" thing, but isn't that what cooking DOES to protein - ALL protein? And I'd love to understand why this is a problem. Actually, I don't even really understand what "denaturing" means.

???
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  #32   ^
Old Sun, Oct-10-04, 13:02
tagcaver's Avatar
tagcaver tagcaver is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 787
 
Plan: Lyle Style FD
Stats: 143/124.5/123 Female 5 ft 4 in
BF:24.8%
Progress: 93%
Location: Huntsville, AL
Default Whee, a question I can answer!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Built
Okay, I hear this from time to time, the "denaturing" thing, but isn't that what cooking DOES to protein - ALL protein? And I'd love to understand why this is a problem. Actually, I don't even really understand what "denaturing" means.

???

Protein has 4 tiers of structure; 1) PRIMARY -- amino acid sequence, 2) SECONDARY -- alpha helix or beta sheet (the manner in which the protein chain arranges itself), 3) TERTIARY -- the larger folding and arrangement of the helix or sheet and includes cross-linking via disulfide bonds, hydrogen bonds, salt bridges, or hydrophobic interactions, and 4) QUATERNARY - an aggregation of separate protein chains into a larger globule (hemoglobin is an example - it has 4 protein chains combined to make a larger globular protein)

Denaturation -- the hydrogen bonds that hold together the tertiary structure of a protein are disrupted by heat. Heat also destroys the alpha-helical (secondary) structure. The protein chains are unfolded, and therefore can't fit with other protein chains during chemical reactions. An example of this might include a protein and the digestive enzyme (another protein) that helps to digest it. Each enzyme has an active site that accepts only a specific shape. If a protein is denatured and its shape is changed, it will no longer fit into the enzyme and can't be broken down.

Other things denature proteins besides heat. The chemicals used to perm hair denature the hair protein molecules, allowing them to be "curled" or "straightened".

Now, as to what specifically happens to whey protein when heated, I haven't a clue.

Joan the chemistry teacher.
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  #33   ^
Old Sun, Oct-10-04, 13:42
troppo1's Avatar
troppo1 troppo1 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 45
 
Plan: Aktins / GHF
Stats: 154/151/165 Male 175cm
BF: 20% 20% 10%
Progress: -27%
Location: Holland
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ok , so i'll leave the protein powder for the shakes.
Can you take too much? as I eat a lot of meat and now shakes and other high protein things( tho I'm not sure what yet, still organising the new food program)
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  #34   ^
Old Sun, Oct-10-04, 15:41
mps's Avatar
mps mps is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 392
 
Plan: NHE/UD2/General LC
Stats: 175/175/175 Male 6'
BF:10/6/?
Progress:
Location: Michigan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Built
Okay, I hear this from time to time, the "denaturing" thing, but isn't that what cooking DOES to protein - ALL protein? And I'd love to understand why this is a problem. Actually, I don't even really understand what "denaturing" means.

???


What Tagcaver said. Also, certain proteins (quaternary structure) have been shown to have immune system benifits which are lost if the structure is changed. I do believe the protein will still be fully digested (broken down into individual amino acids) and rebulit into your tissues. So denaturation is not bad... it's just less good.
(Note: apparently some proteins can make it through the GI tract without being denatured. Otherwise the proteins in whey would have no immune system effect)
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  #35   ^
Old Sun, Oct-10-04, 15:43
mps's Avatar
mps mps is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 392
 
Plan: NHE/UD2/General LC
Stats: 175/175/175 Male 6'
BF:10/6/?
Progress:
Location: Michigan
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by troppo1
ok , so i'll leave the protein powder for the shakes.
Can you take too much? as I eat a lot of meat and now shakes and other high protein things( tho I'm not sure what yet, still organising the new food program)


I would shoot for 1 g/lb LBM. I would'nt recommend going over 2g/lb. But if you did it would'nt kill you. I've heard (and it makes sense) that if you eat more protein you should drink more water to help your kidneys out.
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  #36   ^
Old Sun, Oct-10-04, 16:02
Built's Avatar
Built Built is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 3,661
 
Plan: Metabolic Surge
Stats: 170/139/? Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Canada's Wet Coast
Default

Thanks mps. That's kinda what I was figuring. Otherwise, we'd have to eat all our proteins raw.
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  #37   ^
Old Sun, Oct-10-04, 17:48
-thunder- -thunder- is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 220
 
Plan: n/a
Stats: /235/235 Male 6'1"
BF:
Progress:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Built
Okay, I hear this from time to time, the "denaturing" thing, but isn't that what cooking DOES to protein - ALL protein? And I'd love to understand why this is a problem. Actually, I don't even really understand what "denaturing" means.

???


No, it's not.

The body will break the protein down whether it's denatured or not. If you're after some biological effect/activity from the protein (like various fractions in whey concentrate) then you wouldn't want it to end up denatured. However, if all you're after is amino acids, it doesn't matter.

Denature simply means that the tertiary structure of the protein has unfolded.
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  #38   ^
Old Sun, Oct-10-04, 19:58
Built's Avatar
Built Built is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 3,661
 
Plan: Metabolic Surge
Stats: 170/139/? Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Canada's Wet Coast
Default

Okay, so if you're taking in whey specifically for muscle building, no cooking, but if you're using whey because it's protein and no carbs and you need to fake some sort of a pancake, then go for it is what I'm hearing here, yes?
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  #39   ^
Old Mon, Oct-11-04, 02:18
troppo1's Avatar
troppo1 troppo1 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 45
 
Plan: Aktins / GHF
Stats: 154/151/165 Male 175cm
BF: 20% 20% 10%
Progress: -27%
Location: Holland
Default A bit off topic

A bit off topic but,,,, I was checking diets and there is a lot of chicken/ turkey/lean meat type foods in the diets but rarely Ham
Why not?
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  #40   ^
Old Mon, Oct-11-04, 04:59
tagcaver's Avatar
tagcaver tagcaver is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 787
 
Plan: Lyle Style FD
Stats: 143/124.5/123 Female 5 ft 4 in
BF:24.8%
Progress: 93%
Location: Huntsville, AL
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by troppo1
A bit off topic but,,,, I was checking diets and there is a lot of chicken/ turkey/lean meat type foods in the diets but rarely Ham
Why not?

My guess is that ham is cured with salt that causes water retention or sugars that we don't want to eat. Personally, I don't like the taste of ham. I love regular pork, though, and prefer it over beef.
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  #41   ^
Old Mon, Oct-11-04, 17:40
MaxRep's Avatar
MaxRep MaxRep is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 27
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 200/187/154 Male 5 feet, 4 inches
BF:33%/30%
Progress: 28%
Location: London
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strawberry flavoured whey powder mixed in with hot oats is -----delicious
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  #42   ^
Old Mon, Oct-11-04, 21:44
featherz featherz is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 210
 
Plan: Body for Life
Stats: 168/123/135 Female 64
BF:
Progress: 136%
Default

Yep, I eat whey mixed with oats every morning for breakfast. I use chocolate mint most of the time tho.

A tiny little bit of Xanthan gum mixed into your whey shake turns it into pudding. Yummy!
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  #43   ^
Old Tue, Oct-12-04, 04:58
MaxRep's Avatar
MaxRep MaxRep is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 27
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 200/187/154 Male 5 feet, 4 inches
BF:33%/30%
Progress: 28%
Location: London
Default

I hear that whey mixed with jelly (jello for you on thr other side of the atlantic lol ) tastes like blancmange
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  #44   ^
Old Tue, Oct-12-04, 13:02
Trainerdan's Avatar
Trainerdan Trainerdan is offline
Posts: 2,518
 
Plan: Zone
Stats: 255/242/230 Male 75 inches (6'3")
BF:21%/15%/8%
Progress: 52%
Location: Philly
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Strawberry whey and diet orange soda. Not sure about denaturing, but it's tasty.
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  #45   ^
Old Wed, Jan-05-05, 04:47
Iluv2cook's Avatar
Iluv2cook Iluv2cook is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 103
 
Plan: maintenance
Stats: 145/125/125 Female 5' 4"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Default

Troopo1,

Hey! Another low carb lifter in Holland.

You can get a variety of protein post order from:

http://www.vitaminstore.nl/

I like the MDoubleYou French vanilla.

Is there a Lidl grocery store near you? They are a great place for cheap protein; cottage cheese, frozen lamb, beef, pork and tuna steaks.

I find that I need to drink alot of extra water when I have whey powder in order to prevent gas.

-Nancy
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