Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Exercise Forums: Active Low-Carbers > Beginner/Low Intensity
User Name
Password
FAQ Members Calendar Mark Forums Read Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16   ^
Old Thu, Sep-16-04, 11:27
Galadriell's Avatar
Galadriell Galadriell is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,529
 
Plan: Yudkin
Stats: 000/000/000 Female 000
BF:
Progress: 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by loCarbJ
Muscular Endurance building exercises do not have to have a cardiorespiratory element to them, although sometimes they do. In other words, when I run my heart rate approaches 200 beats per minute; and I tend to run longer and longer distances each week. This is an example of Muscular Endurance training done with Cardiorespiratory Endurance training.
J.
With my all respect for your knowledge, expercience, for a 40 year old man to run longer and longer distance with 200 beats per minutes is NOT an example of Muscular Endurance training done with Cardiorespiratory Endurance training, but an example of a very questionable training programme.

All the running literature I have ever read, repeat the SAME advice: keep 90% of your running milage/time in the under 85% max heart rate zone, and run in the 90+ % zone ONLY during short intervalls as part of the - usually once or twice a week - speed work. Doing MORE in the 90+% zone will NOT improve either endurance or speed, only the chance to injure yourself. Running in the 80-85% already improve your cardio health - but without damaging your legs.

The sign of good cardiovascular health is NOT the ability of enduring longer distance in the 90%+ zone, but the ability to keep your heart rate DOWN for extended period, while running faster and faster.

(I have never met any veteran runners bragging about how HIGH his heart rate is. They always proud to show how LOW it is. While "jogging" with 5-6 min/mile pace .)

Please feel free to post any new research on runners showing your point. I am ready to learn new ideas.

If you feel comfortable with this - it is ok, go for it - but before anybody else try your method, I would recommend to check some other resources.

Btw Jeff, I am very happy to see that despite of your injury you are back on the road. Good luck for your running carreer.

Cheers:

Eva

Last edited by Galadriell : Thu, Sep-16-04 at 14:21.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #17   ^
Old Thu, Sep-16-04, 11:38
liftnlady's Avatar
liftnlady liftnlady is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 821
 
Plan: hi prot/carb/cal cycling
Stats: 138.5/133.5/120 Female 64 inches
BF:20%
Progress: 27%
Location: San francisco
Default

good point Eva...I have read the exact same thing when researching training for my boyfriends triathlons.
Reply With Quote
  #18   ^
Old Thu, Sep-16-04, 14:27
loCarbJ's Avatar
loCarbJ loCarbJ is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 408
 
Plan: General Low Carb
Stats: 232/162/162 Male 69 inches
BF:30%/13%/11%
Progress: 100%
Location: San Jose, CA
Default

Hi Eva,

I do run in your above stated percentages. I never said "enduring longer distance in the 90%+ zone". I carefully monitor my heart-rate and have pushed the aerobic threshold higher and higher, gradually. You jumped to an incorrect conclusion when you assumed that my running heart-rate was 90%+ of my max heart-rate.

By no means, am I trying to brag, in anyway of having a high heart-rate! If I was running with another runner with a lower heart-rate who was maintaining the same speed as me, that other runner would probably be in better shape than me. But the longer I train with that runner, the more likely that my heart-rate will decline gradually to get closer to that of the other runner. The fact that my heart-rate can go from the 50's at rest, to near 200 (the 190's) during HIIT training, and then back down to the 50's, could, however, be considered one indication of good cardiorespiratory health.

J.

Last edited by loCarbJ : Thu, Sep-16-04 at 14:42.
Reply With Quote
  #19   ^
Old Fri, Sep-17-04, 09:28
Galadriell's Avatar
Galadriell Galadriell is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,529
 
Plan: Yudkin
Stats: 000/000/000 Female 000
BF:
Progress: 100%
Default

Jeff,

thanks for clarifying, that this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by loCarbJ

In other words, WHEN I RUN my heart rate approaches 200 beats per minute; and I tend to run longer and longer distances each week.
J.
was orginally meant two unconnected statements:

"DURING my HITT my heart rate can go up to 200."

"I run longer and longer distances each week."

My conclusion, that 200 somehow might be in your 90+% max heart rate zone based on basic math, and the widely accepted (though not always correct) max heart rate calculation method : 220 - age. While there are many people whose max heart rate is higher, but it is extremely rare (and usually connected to some heart condition) to have over 220 max heart rate. (There are many other calculation methods, none of them assume over 220 max heart rate.)

Thanks again for the clarification.

Have a nice weekend, enjoy your long run:

Eva

Last edited by Galadriell : Fri, Sep-17-04 at 11:49.
Reply With Quote
  #20   ^
Old Fri, Sep-17-04, 14:38
loCarbJ's Avatar
loCarbJ loCarbJ is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 408
 
Plan: General Low Carb
Stats: 232/162/162 Male 69 inches
BF:30%/13%/11%
Progress: 100%
Location: San Jose, CA
Default

To further clarify, most of my running is distances of 12km or less (you might even call them sprints). And yes, when I train aerobically, I use the HIIT method (frequent intervals of high intensity training using up all my glycogen during the race).

When I go for really long distances, like 100km bike rides; I keep my heart-rate really low (around 120-130) and use the slow-burn method (keeping my body in fat-burning mode for as long as I can). I would venture a guess that this is somewhat similar to the training method you might use when you train for your really long distance events (like marathons).

Both methods address a different kind of training.

J.

Last edited by loCarbJ : Fri, Sep-17-04 at 16:07.
Reply With Quote
  #21   ^
Old Fri, Sep-17-04, 14:44
Built's Avatar
Built Built is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 3,661
 
Plan: Metabolic Surge
Stats: 170/139/? Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Canada's Wet Coast
Default

Okay, I'm not sure what you mean here. You're mixing "train" and "race" in the same paragraph, and I'm really unclear about what you're talking about.

Also, for your 12 km "spirits" (?), you do HIIT? I can only manage HIIT for about 5-8 minutes before throwing up, and I'm in REALLY good shape. How on earth do you manage to do HIIT for 12 km?

Or do you mean Interval Training?
Reply With Quote
  #22   ^
Old Fri, Sep-17-04, 15:07
loCarbJ's Avatar
loCarbJ loCarbJ is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 408
 
Plan: General Low Carb
Stats: 232/162/162 Male 69 inches
BF:30%/13%/11%
Progress: 100%
Location: San Jose, CA
Default

Okay,

Me, personally, I participate in 4 major running events a year. Each is around 3 months apart. I use approximately 10 different, smaller races as training for the big events.

During my initial HIIT training (High Intensity Interval Training), I would only be able to last about 10 minutes. Then I worked it up to around 15 minutes, then 20, 25; and currently I can maintain HIIT training for around 28 minutes, before I need a break (Oh, and by the way, that will only get me around 6km). For longer distances, I need to slow down.

I have intentionally worked this aspect of my fitness with lots and lots of related (but different) crosstraining. This year, my main focus of training has been multi-sport adventure racing. Speed and endurance are the key factors.

For all I know, you could probably out-lift me (especially since my injury). But I'm getting pretty fast in the races; and that's where I get my adrenalin.

J.

Last edited by loCarbJ : Fri, Sep-17-04 at 15:17.
Reply With Quote
  #23   ^
Old Fri, Sep-17-04, 15:16
Built's Avatar
Built Built is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 3,661
 
Plan: Metabolic Surge
Stats: 170/139/? Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Canada's Wet Coast
Default

Okay, now this is a REAL puzzle. How do you maintain HIIT for this long?

Are you doing faster/slower running, or flat out sprints/slower running? And how long are your intervals?
Reply With Quote
  #24   ^
Old Fri, Sep-17-04, 15:38
loCarbJ's Avatar
loCarbJ loCarbJ is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 408
 
Plan: General Low Carb
Stats: 232/162/162 Male 69 inches
BF:30%/13%/11%
Progress: 100%
Location: San Jose, CA
Default

Okay, here's what works for me. This probably would NOT work for a person beginning my program, BUT it works for me and where my training is at:

I know that I can run 12km at an average heart-rate of 165 without any problem. When I am finished, there will be plenty glycogen left in my body. I want to run my next big event faster. I use my road and mountain cycling to build more leg muscle endurance (and weight-training for muscle strength), but my cardiorespiratory fitness has to improve also.

I run with an I-pod mini and the different songs provide me with "intervals". The first song is the warm-up. Song two is High Intensity. Song three is stride work. Song four is back to High Intensity. Etc, etc.

I tend to run fast and sprint during the HI Intervals. I tend to do the long-endurance-cycling at a slower heart-rate to make sure the glycogen will last.

During my bigger events (which last 3-5 hours and I am giving it all I've got), I try to figure out just how much output I can achieve without burning out. I never run for more than an hour (max 12km) during an event. I am participating in a 24hour mountain biking event this year, but my total time of exertion should not exceed 5 or 6 hours (I'll get a few hours of rest while my teammates ride, several times during the event). I am planning to compete in a couple multi-day events for next year.

This is what works for me.

J.
Reply With Quote
  #25   ^
Old Fri, Sep-17-04, 15:42
liftnlady's Avatar
liftnlady liftnlady is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 821
 
Plan: hi prot/carb/cal cycling
Stats: 138.5/133.5/120 Female 64 inches
BF:20%
Progress: 27%
Location: San francisco
Default

so do you do this HIIT for the whole song 2...if so then what you are doing is running at a higher intensity than your normal run and elevating your heart rate...not actual HIIT...which is sprinting and I do not think even olympiads can sustain for 2-4 minutes straight...is that correct, or do you sprint, recover, sprint, recover for the whole song.
Reply With Quote
  #26   ^
Old Fri, Sep-17-04, 15:44
Built's Avatar
Built Built is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 3,661
 
Plan: Metabolic Surge
Stats: 170/139/? Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Canada's Wet Coast
Default

See, this is what I'm thinking. I sprint FLAT OUT during HIIT. This is what true HIIT is. It sounds like LCJ IS doing INTERVAL training, but not High Intensity Interval Training.
Reply With Quote
  #27   ^
Old Fri, Sep-17-04, 15:50
loCarbJ's Avatar
loCarbJ loCarbJ is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 408
 
Plan: General Low Carb
Stats: 232/162/162 Male 69 inches
BF:30%/13%/11%
Progress: 100%
Location: San Jose, CA
Default

Okay,

My understanding of HIIT: Training at your aerobic threshold with frequent intervals of High Intensity training above your aerobic threshold, thereby pushing the aerobic threshold higher.

Wouldn't a FLAT OUT sprint just be called a FLAT OUT sprint?

J.
Reply With Quote
  #28   ^
Old Fri, Sep-17-04, 15:56
liftnlady's Avatar
liftnlady liftnlady is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 821
 
Plan: hi prot/carb/cal cycling
Stats: 138.5/133.5/120 Female 64 inches
BF:20%
Progress: 27%
Location: San francisco
Default

well I think you can do them both ways...I think where the confusion is you are doing fartleks which are HIIT by definition...bodybuilders do HIIT intervals where they do sprint recovery work...i.e.20 sprint 40 recovery...the total duration includingwarm up and cool down is 20-30 minutes...it is done this way because it is muscle sparing unlike longer duration cardio and the afterburn affects last longer.

This seems different than what you are doing for endurance training...i believe thatis where the confusion came in...same terminolgy, different sports, different methods.
Reply With Quote
  #29   ^
Old Fri, Sep-17-04, 16:02
Built's Avatar
Built Built is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 3,661
 
Plan: Metabolic Surge
Stats: 170/139/? Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Canada's Wet Coast
Default

Okay, this is sounding more like it.

The whole reason why I do HIIT is to burn as much fat as possible while being muscle sparing. Plus, it's fast - whole thing's over in 5-8 minutes. I try to do things things that work and that take as little time as possible so I DON'T have to run distances.
Reply With Quote
  #30   ^
Old Fri, Sep-17-04, 16:14
loCarbJ's Avatar
loCarbJ loCarbJ is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 408
 
Plan: General Low Carb
Stats: 232/162/162 Male 69 inches
BF:30%/13%/11%
Progress: 100%
Location: San Jose, CA
Default

Built,

You and I are on the opposite ends of the spectrum. You try to spend as little time as you can in a physical activity and still look really good. I try to spend as much time as I can in a physical activity and still be able to feel good.



J.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"Personal Trainer To The Stars Reveals His Fitness Secrets" gotbeer LC Research/Media 11 Fri, Jun-13-08 11:10
Exercise: Does It Lead To Greater Weight Loss? AntiM LC Research/Media 23 Fri, Jul-02-04 10:06
How to Fit Fitness Into Your Busy Schedule fern2340 Beginner/Low Intensity 0 Tue, Jul-31-01 07:03
Resistance Training 101 fern2340 Beginner/Low Intensity 0 Fri, Jun-22-01 12:58


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:08.


Copyright © 2000-2024 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.