From the Weston A. Price website:
The study of vitamins has not waned since the early days of research, and the subject of food science has proved to be far more complex than scientists at first imagined. The early discoveries led some researchers to conclude that all vitamins necessary to life could be supplied in their isolated factory-produced form as vitamin pills. We now know that vitamins do not exist as single components but as parts of a complex of compounds, each part contributing to the whole. For example, vitamin C used to treat scurvy and other deficiency conditions is more effective when given as a natural food concentrate, which includes minerals, rutin and other analogs.1
As many as seventeen water-soluble vitamins labeled B have been discovered, present in different proportions in different foods, but all working together synergistically; vitamin D may have as many as twelve components of which several are active;2 vitamin P has at least five components. Most vitamins produce optimum results in the presence of certain naturally occurring "cofactors," such as trace minerals, enzymes and coenzymes, as well as other vitamins.
The bewildering array of factors in foods now known to be essential has led well-informed nutritionists to recognize the futility of providing all factors necessary to life in pill form. While supplementing the diet with certain isolated vitamins has proven temporarily beneficial for many disease conditions, the best source of vitamins for most of us in the long term is properly prepared whole foods. For this reason, the importance of eating nutrient-dense meals, rich in vitamins and their cofactors, cannot be underestimated.


This makes the most sense to me. I’ve read so much stuff saying there’s no point taking this supplement if you don’t take that one………the body can’t utilize one without the other blah blah……I found myself utterly confused as to which ones to take and why. Now I only take fish oil caps for omega-3 because I don’t really like fish very much and don’t eat enough of it. I try to eat a balanced and varied diet based on fresh food and I feel fit as a fiddle……….but I guess only time will tell. Meanwhile the money I save by not buying expensive supplements can be spent on organic and free range food which will hopefully make up for the poorer quality of today’s soils etc.

I'm not a believer in megadoses of any vitamin, especially the fat-soluble ones that can be toxic if overdone. I've added things to my diet like SmartBalance margarine and coconut oil (occasionally) and try to include fish when I can. I take a "commercial" multi (One-a-Day Weightsmart) 2 or 3 times a week if I feel my overall intake through food isn't adequate.

Potatofree, I'm not sure if you do this, but I'll just post it b/c many people aren't aware of this.

As long as you don't cook with the SmartBalance you're ok, but once it's heated you're eating damaged fat, causing free radical damage. Because of the damage that free radicals cause, it's believed to be healthier NOT to eat EFAs than to eat damaged EFAs.

It's a great example of clever advertising. Yes, SmartBalance is trans-fat free, but they fail to address the issue of damaged fats. I'd also like to know how they protect the fragile EFAs from light and air damage in plastic containers?

Sorry if I sound like the EFA police, I'm just trying to share information.

Wanda

I don't cook with it for the most part, but I don't understand something.... wouldn't the EFA's in fish, flax or other food sources be "damaged' when cooked too? As I understand it, if oils aren't OVERheated or heated repeatedly (as in re-using deep-fryer oil too many times) it's fine.

One of the best resources on fats is Udo Erasmus, the author of Fats That Heal, Fats That Kill. He recommends, for optimal health, that any oil containing EFAs should not be used for frying. Any fat that turns to smoke is damaged. The least harmful fat to fry with is saturated fat.

He mentions that if one MUST fry with oil containing EFAs, first put water into the frying pan before adding the oil. This helps keep the temperature down to an acceptable level. Even if something is baked, ideally, the outer crust should be removed.

Yes, exposure to light, heat and oxygen twists the molecules in EFAs. He mentions that oxidation from frying and deep-frying are more harmful than trans-fats.

Fish should never be fried at high temperatures. It's best to cook it using water (ie. poaching, steaming) where the temperatures stay below levels that destroy the molecules.

This is one reason why antioxidants, whether through supplementation or food are important in our diet - to offset any damage that we encounter with EFAs.

Wanda

I have read that with the EFA's it is the RATIO of 3's to 6's that is important - and our modern diets tend to be WAY overbalanced with the Omega-6's. Getting enough of the Omega-3's is really important for the prevention of so many things - it keeps our systems on the "less inflammatory" side, and inflammation is being implicated in many chronic diseases, from heart disease to Alzheimers. I would argue that for someone who gets an adequate balanced diet, some form of Omega 3's is probably the most important supplement.

For the basic vitamins and minerals, plug a few days of eating into Fitday and see how you're measuring up. If you're low, you probably don't need anything expensive.

For other supplements, well, again, it depends partly upon diet, partly upon the individual. Some things we need more of as we age, partly because we manufacture less of them in our bodies.

The main problem with supplements is that the science makes sense on paper, but you don't know what you are getting in the bottle, because it is mostly unregulated. This is especially true of herbals. You may have to try several brands before you hit the one that works. I've tried all sorts of stuff. most of it useless, but there are a few gems to be found.

Having said that I have never noticed anything from any Oil supplement of any kind. CLA, DHA, EHA, GLA, ALA, flax, fish oil, tried 'em all to no discernable difference in my health. Besides any internal "feeling" I was also trying them for their supposed benefits to skin health. Nothing changed re: my sebhorrheic dermatitis. Midas well've been snake oil. Back to topical treatments which do work well.

On the other hand, Vitamin C restored my receeding gums, among other noticeable things. Zinc supplements improved my overall health. The potassium supplements quickly relieve the low-carb cramps. Magnesium helps get a sound sleep. I take a multivitamin plus an E and C every day because even if they aren't doing any good, they are inexpensive compared to alot of drugs, and chances are they are doing some good anyway.

I was able to go off anti-depressants, thanks to my fish oil capsules. They've helped a lot of people with bipolar disorder, as well.

And I haven't had a cold in over a year, ever since I started taking vitamins C and E daily.

I couldn't drag myself off the couch until someone suggested L-Carnitine.

YMMV, obviously, but you'd have to pry my supplements out of my cold, dead hands!

This isn't directed at anybody in particular, but I wonder how many benefits of a lot of supplements are due to the placebo effect? (I'm not anti-herbal, I know a lot of people taking prescription drugs who claim a cure long before it's realistic to expect any improvement)

Some supplements are touted as a cure-all, and I have trouble believing that if something cured everything from hangnails to cancer, the medical establishment would be SO slow to realize it.

Every few months, there seems to be a new "super-supplement" and even on the boards here, it seems to run in cycles of about a monthwhere the new supplement is discussed to death, praised as a miracle, then left by the wayside.

Lots of good information in this thread and, since I have a drawer full of suppelements, I will begin taking them again. I mainly stopped taking them because I hate choking down so many pills; plus, they made me queasy.

If I were to begin taking them again, here's what I'd end up taking:

• Barlean's highest lignan flax oil. 3 capsules 3x day. I hear the oils calm symptoms of Rosacea, as well (of which I have a moderate case from years past of sun worship)
• Solgar multi-vitamin with chelated minerals. 1 capsule 1x day.
• Country Life "Super 10 antioxidant". 2 caps contain 15,000 IU of vitamin A as beta carotene natural mixed carotenoids, 1000 mg citamin C as calcium ascorbate, 400 IU vitamin E as d-alpha tocopheryl acid succinate, 60 mg calcium, 15 mg zinc, 100 mcg selenium, 100 mg green tea extract, 100 mg curcumin (rhizone), 100 mg NAC (N-acetyl cysteine), 50 mg grape skin extract, 50 mg grape seed extract. 2 capsules 2x day.
• TwinLab Calcium Citrate (300 mg calcium, 150 mg magnesium). 2 capsules 2x day.
• Country Life Biochem Lipoic acid (50 mg). 1 capsule 2x day.
• TwinLab Magnesium (400 mg). 1 capsule 1x day.
• Solgar Acidophilus (L. acidophilus, L. bulgaricus, L. paracasei, B. lactis, S. thermophilus). 1 capsule 1x day.
• Solgar Vitamin E (400 IU as D-alpha tocopherol plus D-beta tocopherol, D-delta tocopherol, and D-gamma tocopherol). 1 capsule 1x day.
• Country Life Ester-C (1000 mg). 1 capsule 1x day.

Looking back at the list, looks like the "Super 10" and multi-vitamin covers most my (perceived) needs. By putting aside the rest, I can avoid gagging down extra pills!

I might be interested in trying the L-Carnitine if it helps with energy levels. And I'll supplement extra B6 at TOM.

>>I love salmon, I just can't afford it.

Woo, keep your eyes peeled at the discount stores. One near me sells 1-lb packages of High Liner wild salmon for $3.97. They have 4 vacuum-packed fillets. So each 4-oz fillet is only a tad more expensive than 4 oz of tuna.

Kristine, the local Save-A-Lot store sells three tuna steaks for $3, they are great grilled or broiled.

Does saltwater fish have the oils though? Aren't they primarily in the skin? I know the meat is pretty low fat.

Heck Badger, that amount of pills would be a meal by itself!

I dunno but I think the purpose of supplements generally would not be to make you feel better, but to keep you free from disease caused by lack of a vitamin. For instance, scurvey or ricketts. I think their effect is very subtle; for instance will it help keep you from getting cancer in 20 years? Will it keep you free of heart disease? Not the sort of thing you can really detect. Although people attribute all kinds of things to supplements I think they may be a placebo effect or they're just coincidental effects.



I haven't had a cold in over a year also, probably closer to two years. I don't take vitamins regularly. I think I can confidently state that vitamins don't prevent you from getting colds.

While this is true, I find I have a tendency to only use supplements that cause a noticeable improvement. Especially since after I plunk down $$$'s for them, there is sure to be a screaming headline saying they were wrong, it turns out the claims for the supplement were overblown, etc

But this is where Fitday comes in so handy, as tortoise suggested. If you are looking to cover the basics, which are relatively inexpensive, you can see just what you are missing.

As for the extras, taking them for a specific purpose and then testing them against that purpose, seems to me to be the most cost effective way of seeing if they are right for you. Especially if it is something you might have to go to the doctor for, and get even more expensive prescriptions!

I take CLA for its anti-diabetic properties, such as reversing insulin resistance.

I take Oil of Oregano for my sensitive skin/rosacea issues. My mother had been taking an expensive prescription with a vaseline base...which would be a disaster for me.

With Glucosamine I can FEEL my bad thumb stop hurting. Not only am I avoiding the arthritis medicines, with their bleeding/auto immune issues, I am healing the damage.

This is one way of avoiding that trap of "I feel great, which one of the sixty pills I take daily is doing it?"

I'm with you - I will try just about anything if I think it will help, but it's too expensive if you don't see a difference.

I also look for wild salmon on sale. When I find it, which actually is surprisingly often, I will buy several pounds, cut it up and put it in the freezer. Have any of you guys tried the salmon in the foil bag (it's next to the tuna in the can)? How is it?