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  #91   ^
Old Tue, Jan-11-05, 06:47
batgirl's Avatar
batgirl batgirl is offline
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Posts: 145
 
Plan: Neanderthin/Protein Power
Stats: 160/155/138 Female 65 inches
BF:
Progress: 23%
Location: North Florida
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Evidently, there is a study that just came out on the subject. I think they just compiled a bunch of data and noted the correlation. Perhaps in the future they will model a study around it.

How to lose weight the easy way: go to sleep for longer

The Christmas break killed my sleep patterns. I have been having trouble getting to sleep before 11pm. bleh. I don't feel so well as a result. (Easier to blame the Christmas Bloat on not sleeping than on overeating )
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  #92   ^
Old Sun, Jan-30-05, 15:21
Soliton Soliton is offline
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Posts: 2
 
Plan: Inuit
Stats: 157/150/135 Male 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Ithaca NY
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I'm going to weigh in with Duparc on the amount of sleep. For the last ten years I seem to have done best with only 6 hours a night, and in college I got only 5. I simply woke up and could not go back to sleep. On the few occasions I did, I would drag around for a while before I felt like I was really waking up. In the last 2 or 3 years, my sleep has changed again. I don't sleep any more or less, but I now go to bed at 9, sleep 1-1/2 or 2 hours, wake up for 2, then go back to sleep for 4-1/2 or 5 hours.
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  #93   ^
Old Tue, Feb-01-05, 19:30
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Gooserider Gooserider is offline
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Posts: 108
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 226/187/160 Male 5'9"
BF:More/ than I /like
Progress: 59%
Location: N. Billerica, MA, USA
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I just finished the book, and found it an interesting read, though a bit on the alarmist side. (possibly deservedly so) While it went into great detail about the various medical problems allegedly caused by the lights I felt like it fell down in the solution department.

I would have liked to see a more concentrated 'this is how you solve it' chapter with detailed material, all in one place on how best to implement her findings. Instead while it is in there, the reccomendations seem to be buried in the text and scattered all over the book.

I also didn't find much on the effectiveness of partial solutions - Is sleeping in a lighted area helpful at all? What about a partially darkened, but not 'darkroom grade' area? I have trouble believing that only a totally 'photon free' environment will do. After all our ancestors did not all live in caves all the time, and they survived. Ditto for many of the surviving hunter/gatherer societies.

Even more relevant, what about us low-carb types who may still be doing the 'endless summer light exposure, and possibly a high-ish calorie diet, but are not eating all the processed carbs, etc. that Wiley finds problems with... What effect does that path have? She seems to say that one should sleep a lot and live on a no-carb, low calorie diet in the winter and spring, but then do high natural carbs in the summer and fall. What happens if you don't get the carbs in the summer season?

At any rate, I've started to try implementing some of her ideas. I've put up some heavy curtains on the bedroom windows this afternoon. Daylight is now about like dark used to be, I haven't checked out the nightime effect yet. I'm trying to get more sleep at night (not very successfully, but some...) Will see how it does.

Gooserider
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  #94   ^
Old Tue, Apr-05-05, 18:04
Idioglossi Idioglossi is offline
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Posts: 13
 
Plan: Atkins '72, Stillmans
Stats: 172/123/120 Female 5'2"
BF:
Progress: 94%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monique723
I agree with Duparc. If I go beyond 8 to 8 1/2 hours I get a headache. I don't really see how every single human can be programmed for 9 hours or more.

I like the book though.


This is me.. and I did a sleep test last fall looking for sleep apnea..
which I did not have.. and woke up some 80 x... no wonder I am tired all the time.. and can not take a sleeping pill because my heart rate went to 30.

Living in the tropics the older folkes always went to bed an hour or so after the sun went down and were up at 2 or 3 to go fishing...

I sleep... or sleep and wake etc., then after a few hours, I wake for 2 hours and then fall asleep again and wake at 4:30 am my bedroom has always been pitch dark, due to red wood louvers.

Since childhood I went to bed very early.. my mother also..

Last edited by Idioglossi : Tue, Apr-05-05 at 18:14.
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  #95   ^
Old Sat, Apr-23-05, 15:54
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TheCaveman TheCaveman is offline
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Posts: 1,429
 
Plan: Angry Paleo
Stats: 375/205/180 Male 6'3"
BF:
Progress: 87%
Location: Sacramento, CA
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I'd be glad to chat it up here, Duparc.
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  #96   ^
Old Sat, Apr-23-05, 20:24
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Duparc Duparc is offline
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Posts: 586
 
Plan: self-designed
Stats: 216/189/190 Male tad under 6'
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Kirriemuir, Scotland
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Go to bed and sleep on it, Caveman!
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  #97   ^
Old Fri, Oct-28-05, 08:14
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Iluv2cook Iluv2cook is offline
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Posts: 103
 
Plan: maintenance
Stats: 145/125/125 Female 5' 4"
BF:
Progress: 100%
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Okay. I'm reading the book for the third time. I wanted to go back to the part where she talks about dopamine/addiction. I must have missed that it applied to carbohydrates too. And apparently blinking light screens. So THAT'S why these darn bulletin boards are addictive!

Ya know, what I really like about this book? Her neat complete little theory that the diseases of civilization are just ways to deal with the coming ice age winter.

I also reread the bit about prolactin & autoimmunity. Alarmist- yes?

What I was looking for was a reason for everybody to be complaining of being extra hungry now that fall is here. There must be an explaination somewhere...is it because when the days get shorter we turn on the artificial lights earlier in the evening? hmmm

This book has really captured my attention. But why do we have to do cyclical diet by the seasons? Is there anyway to outsmart this by year round dietary changes?
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  #98   ^
Old Sat, Nov-05-05, 14:46
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Duparc Duparc is offline
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Posts: 586
 
Plan: self-designed
Stats: 216/189/190 Male tad under 6'
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Kirriemuir, Scotland
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While the book was an interesting read I do not, however, subscribe to most of what its authors say. Like others, 7 hours sleep is adequate for me. I certainly do not require more. The only piece of information which, I think, benefitted me was that on darkening one's room. Having said this I can still sleep well in a lit room or even during daylight. I remain unconvinced about the theories expounded by those authors. My style of sleeping differs and I follow the needs of my body and not what others try to tell me.

Interestingly, my wife's sleep-pattern closely resembles that recommended in this book. She needs the minimum of 8 hours undisturbed sleep otherwise she is tetchy for the remainder of the following day.
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  #99   ^
Old Sat, Nov-05-05, 14:51
Zuleikaa Zuleikaa is offline
Posts: 16,630
 
Plan: Mishmash
Stats: 365/350.4/160 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 7%
Location: Maryland, US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluv2cook
Okay. I'm reading the book for the third time. I wanted to go back to the part where she talks about dopamine/addiction. I must have missed that it applied to carbohydrates too. And apparently blinking light screens. So THAT'S why these darn bulletin boards are addictive!

Ya know, what I really like about this book? Her neat complete little theory that the diseases of civilization are just ways to deal with the coming ice age winter.

I also reread the bit about prolactin & autoimmunity. Alarmist- yes?

What I was looking for was a reason for everybody to be complaining of being extra hungry now that fall is here. There must be an explaination somewhere...is it because when the days get shorter we turn on the artificial lights earlier in the evening? hmmm

This book has really captured my attention. But why do we have to do cyclical diet by the seasons? Is there anyway to outsmart this by year round dietary changes?


It has a lot to do with vitamin D levels and their regulation of melatonin. Vitamin D levels naturally fall during winter. That's an ancient signal to hibernate, to store fat and sleep more during the winter.

It can be ameliorated with vitamin D supplementation.
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  #100   ^
Old Sat, Nov-05-05, 18:43
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AimeeJoi AimeeJoi is offline
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Posts: 552
 
Plan: mindful eating
Stats: 184.5/178.5/140 Female 66
BF:41/40/25
Progress: 13%
Location: pa
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I am reading this book at the moment and though a lot of it is interesting I find the author to be very sensationalistic. He is like "If you don't sleep 9.5 hrs a day YOU WILL DIE" There is no "well you may get sick" It is just "YOU WILL DIE!!!" Because of this tactic I am a little wary of him.


Aimee
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  #101   ^
Old Sun, Nov-06-05, 22:14
Gooserider's Avatar
Gooserider Gooserider is offline
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Posts: 108
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 226/187/160 Male 5'9"
BF:More/ than I /like
Progress: 59%
Location: N. Billerica, MA, USA
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Agreed, that was my feeling as well. (BTW I believe at least one of the authors is a 'she' - not that it matters for your point, but...)

I have been trying to get more sleep since reading the book, and it may have helped some. However, I tend to do it more by napping rather than going to bed earlier, and I probably don't get as much sleep on average as reccomended by the book. Also while I have gotten the room darker, it isn't blackout conditions by any stretch.

Gooserider
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  #102   ^
Old Wed, Nov-09-05, 13:11
AimeeJoi's Avatar
AimeeJoi AimeeJoi is offline
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Posts: 552
 
Plan: mindful eating
Stats: 184.5/178.5/140 Female 66
BF:41/40/25
Progress: 13%
Location: pa
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OK I got a little further through the book and I have to say that I am impressed with the section about depression. I have always felt that depression was cause by a "civilized" lifestyle and Wiley's discourse on the subject fit in well with my thoughts. My boyfriend suffers from "depression," which I think for him is really just not ecstatic happiness at all times of the day and night, and takes Zoloft, which I totally don't think is right. Dr's will pretty much throw this stuff at you. We are told that being tired or not finding pleasure in day to day activities means we are depressed. I think it means we are protesting an unnatural way of life forced on us by society. The chemical imbalance that prescribers of Zoloft and Prozac are talking about is brought on by our unnatural lifestyles. We don't need drugs, we need a break!!
Anyway I am starting to appreciate the book a little more but some things he says still seem like they are only loosely based on fact and research.

Aimee
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  #103   ^
Old Thu, Nov-17-05, 20:02
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kallyn kallyn is offline
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Posts: 1,998
 
Plan: life without bread
Stats: 150/130/130 Female 5 feet 7 inches
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Pennsylvania
Default ok fine, but what about too much sleep?

I just checked this book out of the library after reading this thread on it, and I have to say I'm finding it a very hard read. The writing style is very sensationalistic, and, to my mind, annoying. The author also seems to contradict herself constantly and a lot of the information is "touchy feely" kind of stuff at best. I was really hoping for a more scientific approach, but ah well. I may slog through the rest of it.

Now here is the real point of interest for me. Everything you read nowadays about sleep is about how we never get enough of it. I have the exact opposite of this problem, and I can find almost nothing written on the subject of TOO MUCH sleep (except for a few things written about hypersomnia and atypical depression). I sleep at least 10 hours every night, even during the summer. I can't seem to sleep any less than that, and I could certainly sleep longer if I had the freedom to do so (some weekends I sleep for 12 hours and I bet I could do 14 if no one bothered me). According to the authors of this book, I should be in perfect health, but this is not the case. Moreover, I can't even function with less than 10 hours of sleep. If I get less, I'm exhausted all day and have to take a nap. Is this normal or desirable? Anyone have any opinions? (if it helps at all, I've been like this my whole life, not just since I started putting on the pounds in college)
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  #104   ^
Old Fri, Nov-18-05, 07:20
Zuleikaa Zuleikaa is offline
Posts: 16,630
 
Plan: Mishmash
Stats: 365/350.4/160 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 7%
Location: Maryland, US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kallyn
I just checked this book out of the library after reading this thread on it, and I have to say I'm finding it a very hard read. The writing style is very sensationalistic, and, to my mind, annoying. The author also seems to contradict herself constantly and a lot of the information is "touchy feely" kind of stuff at best. I was really hoping for a more scientific approach, but ah well. I may slog through the rest of it.

Now here is the real point of interest for me. Everything you read nowadays about sleep is about how we never get enough of it. I have the exact opposite of this problem, and I can find almost nothing written on the subject of TOO MUCH sleep (except for a few things written about hypersomnia and atypical depression). I sleep at least 10 hours every night, even during the summer. I can't seem to sleep any less than that, and I could certainly sleep longer if I had the freedom to do so (some weekends I sleep for 12 hours and I bet I could do 14 if no one bothered me). According to the authors of this book, I should be in perfect health, but this is not the case. Moreover, I can't even function with less than 10 hours of sleep. If I get less, I'm exhausted all day and have to take a nap. Is this normal or desirable? Anyone have any opinions? (if it helps at all, I've been like this my whole life, not just since I started putting on the pounds in college)
Lack of vitamin D. Vitamin D sets circadian rythmns. You live in Seattle. I assume you work full time. Seattle is known for its lack of sun. Vitamin D production only occurs between the hours of 10-3 during late spring-early fall on unsunscreened skin at the latitude of Newport News, VA or further south. To make enough vitamin D from the sun for daily needs an to build a reserve, 85% of the skin should be exposed during that time span.

Given D production requirements I assume you are not meeting them and are, in fact, running a huge deficit. If you're of African, Asian or Northern European descent, the effect worsens. Thus your sleeping habits. I wouldn't be surprised if you had other signs of vitamin D deficiency. As you say you've been like this your whole life, I assume you have SAD to some level, which is also a vitamin D deficiency. Having SAD also interupts normal circadian rhythms, makes you crave carbs, promotes fat storage/weight gain, and raises insulin levels. Do you feel energetic or need less sleep for a brief period during the summer? Do a few days of cloudy weather during the summer saps your energy and mood? Do you have problems staying on plan or staying away from carbs? These are all SAD symptoms and symptoms of vitamin D deficiency. If you have any immune system problems these are vitamin D deficiency related too.

I suggest, JMO, that you get your vitamin D tested and treat the deficiency. Vitamin D is tested using a 25(OH)D serum measurement. Standard lab values are inadequate for assessing status. Rather, use the following values to interpret 25(OH)D test results:
< 20 ng/mL: deficient
< 30 ng/mL: insufficient
40-65 ng/mL: optimal
> 80 ng/mL: excess
Or you can take 1800 mg calcium, 900-1300 mg magnesium and as much high potency vitamin D3 in 1,000 IU capsules as you can stand from 4,000 up to 12,000 IU/day. The range is so wide because only you can tell how much you need to fill the deficit and the deficit must be filled first before you can go on maintenance dose. Otherwise, you will never obtain a healthy level of vitamin D in your blood.

There's an overview of vitamin D in the supplement forum. And more than you ever wanted to know about vitamin D if you click on the link in my sig.
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  #105   ^
Old Fri, Nov-18-05, 12:16
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kallyn kallyn is offline
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Posts: 1,998
 
Plan: life without bread
Stats: 150/130/130 Female 5 feet 7 inches
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Pennsylvania
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I've only lived in Seattle for about a month. Prior to that, I was in New Jersey. I just finished up college, and don't have a full time job yet, but I do stay inside most of the day; I can buy that I have a vitamin D deficiency right at this moment.

I don't know if the D thing can explain why I always slept so much as a child though. I was one of those kids that was outside all day from when I got up til when I went to bed, and the less clothing the better. You know the type.

I am of Northern European descent though, and I have very fair skin, so maybe even if I get a lot of sun exposure my body just doesn't produce enough vitamin D? Is that possible? That would be pretty unfortunate. ;(
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