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  #31   ^
Old Wed, Jun-30-04, 14:24
MsTwacky's Avatar
MsTwacky MsTwacky is offline
WONJ#3
Posts: 7,576
 
Plan: 12 steps
Stats: 238/210/145 Female 5'6
BF:
Progress: 30%
Location: Portland, OR
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AntiM
MsTwacky ~ I don't know about a lot, but I do know this: No one can tell you what the exact right diet and exercise plans are for you. You've got to keep searching until you find a good combo for you. You mention Starvation Mode - do you have a long history of Very Low Calorie Dieting? Maybe you need to heal your metabolism by eating enough food and building up your lean body mass? Radical, I know, but maybe consider not trying to lose weight, just focusing on creating a healthy metabolism? I personally feel it's the people who stick with a program they can live with, even if their loss is very slow, who make it in the long run. There are a lot of folk (especially in the TDC) who skip from plan to plan in desperation, only to end up back here, weighing more and still more desperate. I wish you the best of luck.



I have a very long history of cocaine and amphetamine addictions as well as yo-yo dieting on and off with low carb starting from about 1991. I'm sure my metabolism is shot out!!!!!!!!

I'm the only person I know of who managed to gain weight while hardly eating and taking meth on a daily basis. I have been clean for 1 1/2 years now and actively trying to lose the weight but my body still doesn't want to. I have lost a total of 22 lbs in that 1 1/2 years. But really seriously since November.
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  #32   ^
Old Wed, Jun-30-04, 17:25
ani_d's Avatar
ani_d ani_d is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 486
 
Plan: South Beach
Stats: 253.5/189.5/140 Female 5'4"
BF:41.2
Progress: 56%
Location: Victoria,BC
Default What now???

I only weigh and measure myself once a month. This was the first month that I took on weight training. I was consistant in going to the gym on Sunday, Tuesdays and Thursdays...I would do one hour on cardio machines, and then the weight machines, 2 reps of 8 for the first week, at light weights, since then I have upped myself to 3 sets of 10 of about 40 lbs, Triceps are lighter, because of my batwings...and quads, and gluts are heavier...
One Monday, Wednesday and Friday I am walking at a good pace for about an hour, while doing some situps and stretches at home.

Here is my dilema...I did not lose any weight or inches this month. I don't understand it. I worked so hard, yet, although I look different, I don't see any losses...As a matter of fact, I went up a pound!

Does anyone have any suggestions on what I should do differently? I am keeping my carbs around 25-30 per day...And I have been doing low carb since Sept. 03.
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  #33   ^
Old Wed, Jun-30-04, 23:09
Built's Avatar
Built Built is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 3,661
 
Plan: Metabolic Surge
Stats: 170/139/? Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Canada's Wet Coast
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Okay - first off, NEVER do cardio before lifting. You need what little of your blood sugar you have for the lifting.

Second - an hour of cardio on a lifting day is WAY too much - 20-30 minutes MAX, or do it on alternate days. 3-4 days of cardio is MORE than sufficient.

Focus on your lifting on lifting days, cardio should be secondary. A reasonable length of time to lift would be under an hour, taking reasonable breaks between sets, and do 3 sets of 8 for most lifts until you get into it more.

With a 4 day training programme, you should probably be looking at at least a 2-day spit (mine is a 4-day split right now) and work each body part once, or at most twice a week, HARD. You should aim to train hard enough that you aren't CRIPPLED, but so you feel it a bit for a day or two after.

You may do well to up the carbs a touch on lifting days only, and keep them all focussed in the time BEFORE you lift. None after.

Try that for a bit.

- Built
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  #34   ^
Old Wed, Jun-30-04, 23:44
dazzlin182 dazzlin182 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 546
 
Plan: none atm. bfl mostly
Stats: 128/115/103 Female 5'3
BF:
Progress: 52%
Location: London
Talking

Quote:
And hey, I met a woman at my gym yesterday who lost 40 pounds slowly on Slim Fast milkshakes, doing cardio before weights, and keeping her fats and proteins really LOW . Just because I don't GET it doesn't mean it can't happen.
i had a lil laugh on that...its amazing how things can work soooo differently from one ppl to another.

anyway my score is....
Quote:
Your score is 1.83.

Your body is closest to a Mesomorph. You have a naturally fit body but to maintain it or improve it you should exercise and diet correctly for your type. Strength training can be done more often and for longer sessions then would be good for an Ectomorph, but you must still be carefull not to overdo it. You should train with moderate to heavy weighs and at a moderate pace, not resting too long between sets. You will find you gain muscle quite easy (some women and even men might not want to get too bulky, but this won't happen suddenly. When you are happy with your muscle size simply train to maintain it). Stick to a good healthy diet to keep you lean and muscular, and watch for any slow creeping fat gains. Engage in and enjoy aerobic activities, sports, etc. but do not overdo.
Built thank you for your comment! i just feel so much fat on my abs i just kinda thought that hiit might help it LOL. altho i must admit that i am lifting better than i was before.

this is what my brain thinks of how my w/out *coulda, shoulda, woulda* help LOL...my own theory, dont laugh ok...*all comments welcome!*

moderate/heavy weight training (intensity 8-10) = build more muscle
hiit = burn fat
moderate carb = to aid lifting, energy (with hope all is used so it wont be stored or convert to fat)
moderate/less fat (im not tryin to low fat high carb though) = to supply essential fats AND (is this for real? LOL) ---> to not add more fat since im not on ketosis or burning fat thing.......
moderate/high protein = to aid muscle building

p/s carb-ups CKD didnt work so much for me, it so much worse than free day BFL. i didnt experience major probs but didnt like the feeling when the carb-up day arrived LOL.

Last edited by dazzlin182 : Thu, Jul-01-04 at 00:59.
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  #35   ^
Old Wed, Jun-30-04, 23:51
dazzlin182 dazzlin182 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 546
 
Plan: none atm. bfl mostly
Stats: 128/115/103 Female 5'3
BF:
Progress: 52%
Location: London
Talking

Quote:
Does anyone have any suggestions on what I should do differently? I am keeping my carbs around 25-30 per day...And I have been doing low carb since Sept. 03.
i definitely lose weight on LC, thats a fact (even if its not solid 20g everyday). i ate moderate carb before CKD, and when i went on LC i lose weight - then i went back to moderate carb eat fairly high carbs for a week! i did not lose any untill now. im stuck at *fill in the blank* lbs right now and im just too shame too post it cuz its too damn light.

unless you have carbs sensitivity (not sure what science term for it), i second built suggestion the little bit carb push (on lifting days) might change thing a bit?

cheers
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  #36   ^
Old Wed, Jun-30-04, 23:54
Built's Avatar
Built Built is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 3,661
 
Plan: Metabolic Surge
Stats: 170/139/? Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Canada's Wet Coast
Default

You'll have to fiddle with the fats to see what works for you. I need mine on the high side.

Your list looks good to me, hon. Personally, I don't do moderate weights - only heavy, given what I'm doing that day (ie longer or shorter sets), but maybe that's what you meant by moderate.

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  #37   ^
Old Thu, Jul-01-04, 05:52
pookalee pookalee is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 774
 
Plan: Carb Cycling
Stats: 188/173/150 Female 5'9"
BF:
Progress: 39%
Location: Louisiana
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Built
I don't do moderate weights - only heavy, given what I'm doing that day (ie longer or shorter sets), but maybe that's what you meant by moderate.


Just wondering, whadaya mean by longer or shorter sets? Ive basically been lifting as heavy as I can on everything while still having good form, aiming for 8 reps X 4 sets. (bet you never imagined everyone would be SO VERY interested in everything you do huh? )
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  #38   ^
Old Thu, Jul-01-04, 10:19
Built's Avatar
Built Built is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 3,661
 
Plan: Metabolic Surge
Stats: 170/139/? Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Canada's Wet Coast
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pookalee
Just wondering, whadaya mean by longer or shorter sets? Ive basically been lifting as heavy as I can on everything while still having good form, aiming for 8 reps X 4 sets. (bet you never imagined everyone would be SO VERY interested in everything you do huh? )


Actually, you know something? When I first started this adventure, I was DESPERATE for information on how to integrate exercise and diet, and it seemed like there was NOTHING out there. Then I started trolling the bodybuilding websites. It's actually not all that surprising to me that there are so many others working their way out of metabolic hell who are just as thirsty for this kind of information as I am - I never thought my goals were all that unusual (ie lose fat, look and feel better, somehow manage to do it without being FREAKING HUNGRY all the time...). The thing I worry about is that people will think I have all the answers. I don't. But I have SOME of them, and I figure the more we all share what has worked and what doesn't, the more time we can save each other, AND those who haven't started this yet.

I'm tired of feeling like a failure because the methods proposed by "experts" in diet and nutrition (read: low fat diet, lots of cardio) didn't work on me. I think we ALL are.

Now, the "longer or shorter sets" thing - in the beginning, when I first started lifting, I think it was enough to increment every time a movement got easy (ie - I wouldn't feel it the next day). After a point, I wouldn't feel it the next day, but I couldn't increment either. I had hit my first plateau! When this happens, just like in diet, you need to implement some strategy.

I now alternate periods where I'll change my workouts: I'll change the order, I'll mix up the splits, I'll do short, heavy sets (3-5 sets of 5) or I'll do long, still-heavy-but-not-AS-heavy sets (3-5 sets of 10-15), I'll do drop sets (heavier, then an lighter weight) or I'll pyramid (heavier, then lighter)...

Basically, your body gets used to what you are doing, so you keep switching it up.


Last edited by Built : Thu, Jul-01-04 at 10:28.
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  #39   ^
Old Thu, Jul-01-04, 13:39
pookalee pookalee is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 774
 
Plan: Carb Cycling
Stats: 188/173/150 Female 5'9"
BF:
Progress: 39%
Location: Louisiana
Default

Okay, cool, good to know about changing up your sets. And kudos to you for being so supportive and helpful by starting this! Alot more women may realize how weight training can help them get the shape (and health) they desire. You are a great example and you give a lot of encouragement since you have been there in the weight loss battle. And there are alot of other people (men and women) on this forum who have offered so much great advice. I guess this is what you'd call one of those thankful moments.
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  #40   ^
Old Thu, Jul-01-04, 16:15
suleika suleika is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,176
 
Plan: Various
Stats: 196/172/154 Female 5'6
BF:
Progress: 57%
Default

Just for info, I came out as a meso, 2.08, but I am no way a mesomorph. I am endo-ecto. Very long limbs, a bit of a worrier and fidgeter, my fingers overlap far round my wrist, I don't put on weight very easily but fairly easily, it's harder to lose it, I am the most appley shape I have ever seen, my tits and belly are huge, I don't muscle up easily and I am not particularly strong, especially considering that I have been lifting for a while now....
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  #41   ^
Old Thu, Jul-01-04, 16:36
suleika suleika is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,176
 
Plan: Various
Stats: 196/172/154 Female 5'6
BF:
Progress: 57%
Default

Here's some advice from the (possibly subscription only) Hardgainer Round Table forum which I heartily recommend for serious thoughtful body-building discussion.

Quote:
Look at yourself in a mirror with decent lighting. Can you tell visually where the deltoids, biceps, and triceps end? If so, your best way of testing your bodyfat is by 7 point caliper. While the lower point caliper tests are about as accurate in aggregate, individuals vary in where they store their fat. Doing 7-point testing will mean having to get somebody to do it for you. Of course, there is no real reason to find out your "exact" bodyfat number, especially as the error is so large. For practicality, just get the 3-4 skinfolds you can get yourself and monitor those. Tanita scales - don't waste your money. Hydrostatic weighing - if you can do it for free and want to just for the experience, go for it, but don't take it seriously. If your bodyfat is too high for you to make out "parts" then calipers won't work for you. At this level you are probably best off simply monitoring strength and your measurements. If the hassle and cost of hydrostatic weighing don't put you off, go ahead and have it done, but learn about preparing for it first so you that don't waste your time and money.



This article David Maurice writes refers (via a broken link, unfortunately) to an article written by a woman, about inaccuracy in bodyfat measurement. There is one quote from this article: "The exaggeration of bodyfat numbers is often coupled with a widespread misunderstanding of what specific levels of bodyfat actually look like in the flesh.". I am going to try to get a copy of it from him or someone else on that forum. In the meantime I thought I would pass this on.
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  #42   ^
Old Thu, Jul-01-04, 16:52
Built's Avatar
Built Built is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 3,661
 
Plan: Metabolic Surge
Stats: 170/139/? Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Canada's Wet Coast
Default

Great post suleika - and you were right about the "members only" thing, so thanks for including the clip.

I keep thinking I have GOT to get my bodyfat tested. But I've been wrestling with which way to go myself. And I KNOW the tanitas are crap. Furthermore, my upper and lower body fat levels are so out of whack, I'm not really all that sure what it would mean anyway.

Thanks for the great post. I think I'll just start monitoring a few key skinfolds. Ultimately, you look good or you don't. Having someone tell you a number doesn't change that, does it?
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  #43   ^
Old Thu, Jul-01-04, 17:46
Built's Avatar
Built Built is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 3,661
 
Plan: Metabolic Surge
Stats: 170/139/? Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Canada's Wet Coast
Default

And before I forget -

Does anybody understand how "combination" body types work out here?

I don't put TOTAL faith in ANY one method of "type casting" - somebody INVARIABLY comes along who somehow doesn't fit these things well. I think there's SOME truth to it, but not as some of the websites and books dedicated to it would have me believe.

Is the whole endo-meso-ecto thing a continuous scale, or can one have traits of any two (or three, for that matter?)
I'm afraid I'm outside of my comfort zone here.

Any takers?
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  #44   ^
Old Thu, Jul-01-04, 18:12
tholian8's Avatar
tholian8 tholian8 is offline
Ex-Patriot
Posts: 3,364
 
Plan: CAD-ish
Stats: 232.5/199/168 Female 5'2"
BF:no/earthly/clue
Progress: 52%
Location: London, UK
Default This may help

Here is some information on the Sheldon somatotype scales, from Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle:

Rating body types

Although there are three basic categories, pure body types are very rare. Few
people are 100% of one body type and 0% of another. Usually there is a mix of two or even all three types. However, most people will tend to gravitate towards one type predominantly.

In order to more accurately classify people, Sheldon developed a 7-point scale to determine the degree to which each person held attributes of each body type. The first number ranks the endomorph component; the second number the mesomorph, and the third the ectomorph. For example, an extreme endomorph would score 7-1-1:

Endomorph 7
Mesomorph 1
Ectomorph 1

A pure mesomorph such as a world champion bodybuilder who gains muscle
easily and was lean and muscular before ever touching a weight might score 1-7-1:

Endomorph 1
Mesomorph 7
Ectomorph 1

Combination body types

Combination body types are more common than pure body types. For example,
someone who gains muscle easily, but who also tends to gain fat along with the muscle is an endomorphic mesomorph (endo-me omorph). This body type is typical of football linemen, heavyweight wrestlers, shot-putters and many bodybuilders. This is the type of person with high levels of muscle, but the muscle is often covered with a layer of fat. Someone with this body type might score 5-6-1:

Endomorph 5
Mesomorph 6
Ectomorph 1

Another example is the ectomorphic mesomorph (ecto-mesomorph). This is the
type of person without an ounce of fat and with some fairly substantial muscle
development on a tall and linear frame. Basketball players often have ecto-mesomorph body types. An ecto-meso (think Michael Jordan) might score 1-4-5:

Endomorph 1
Mesomorph 4
Ectomorph 5

Examples:

For example, Olympic sprinter Michael Johnson is very mesomorphic (5) with
very muscular arms, shoulders and chest. He also has a moderate ectomorphic component (4) with small joints and very low body fat. There is no sign of any endomorphy (1) whatsoever. Johnson would probably score a 1-5-4.

A bodybuilder like Arnold Schwarzenegger is almost pure mesomorph (7) with
low body fat and massive muscles. Because of his height and long limbs, he has a small ectomorph component (2). He also seemed to get quite bulky in the off-season, indicating a slight endomorph component as well (2). I would rate Arnold a 2-7-2.

<end quote>

--------------------------------

With high insulin resistance, it is entirely possible to develop an endo/ecto body type, affectionately referred to as an "apple on sticks," or a "spider body."

Emily
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  #45   ^
Old Thu, Jul-01-04, 18:35
Built's Avatar
Built Built is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 3,661
 
Plan: Metabolic Surge
Stats: 170/139/? Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Canada's Wet Coast
Default

Thanks Emily. I had always thought of these as being more of a continuum, from ecto to meso to endo. I never realized before today that one can be an ecto-endo. It seemed like a contradiction, given my interpretation as a range rather than a cluster.
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