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  #61   ^
Old Tue, May-11-04, 07:27
doogieb's Avatar
doogieb doogieb is offline
Modified :)
Posts: 1,387
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 242/223/175 Male 170cm
BF:
Progress: 28%
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legwarmers
cottage cheese is actually too carby but casein is the way to go...


Yeah, I know cottage cheese is a little high in carbs, but I've ordered my casein today, so should have 5kg of it (about 10lb!) within the next week
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  #62   ^
Old Tue, May-11-04, 07:29
doogieb's Avatar
doogieb doogieb is offline
Modified :)
Posts: 1,387
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 242/223/175 Male 170cm
BF:
Progress: 28%
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chipperoo
Sorry, legwarmers, but when I take dextrose DIRECTLY after lifting, it does not go toward my carb count at all. And it makes ALL the sense in the world for me! It replenishes the glycogen in my muscles "somewhat" and but mostly causes a small insulin spike which is WANTED in this case to help get the protein into the muscle (and the creatine I take) FAST. If the correct amount is taken ( I myself us 24 grams), it will only kick you out of ketosis for a very short time (I'm back in within the hour). The benefit it gives to keep muscle from breaking down and helping build far, far outweighs being kicked out of ketosis for such a short time!


This is why I end up confused! I think I'll have to get some dextrose and mess around with keto sticks to work things out!
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  #63   ^
Old Tue, May-11-04, 07:41
doogieb's Avatar
doogieb doogieb is offline
Modified :)
Posts: 1,387
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 242/223/175 Male 170cm
BF:
Progress: 28%
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainerdan
I strongly recommend a whey isolate shake or at least glutamine/BCAA's after HIIT.

And, yes, a casein shake before bed is a good idea to ward off any nocturnal catabolism.


Hi TrainerDan

I'm currently doing 5g glutamine before all exercise, and 2 scoops whey with 5g glutamine after all exercise, then 5g glutamine before bedtime and some cottage cheese until my bucket load of casein arrives.

Do you think I'd be better changing to casein after HIIT, or just keep with whey (possibly only 1 scoop of whey after HIIT and keep 2 for lifting days)?

Cheers
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  #64   ^
Old Tue, May-11-04, 07:43
Chipperoo's Avatar
Chipperoo Chipperoo is offline
Southern Gentleman
Posts: 741
 
Plan: CKD
Stats: 272/219/210 Male 70.5 inches
BF:30+/20-21/14-15
Progress: 85%
Location: NW Georgia (Near Atlanta)
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In order to take dex after a workout, you should be lifting fairly intensly. Yes, I was nervous to take it at first. When I DID first start I was taking it as "Smarties" candies, I would eat just about 3 rolls, which at 7 grams a roll is 21grams. The sticks showed that I was in ketosis when I would get home a couple of hours later, as I was working out mid-morning and eating lunch out after. After found source for just plain dex, is easier to add to PWO shake, although getting to eat a little candy can be a nice small "extra" (but harder on the tooth decay, I assume).

Anyway, if the sticks are the only way you can tell if you are in ketosis ( I used to use them, but the stinky pee is enough for me now-a-days *read, cheaper*), then get them and start at a low amount of dex, say 10 grams or so and see if you stay in keto. If you do, you can work your way up a little at a time to see how much works for you without kicking you out.

And if you don't wanna' tempt it, don't, lots of people do CKD without the small carbs after workouts, still works.
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  #65   ^
Old Tue, May-11-04, 08:35
Vanity3's Avatar
Vanity3 Vanity3 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 828
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 265/247.5/145 Female 5'4.25"
BF:50%/46%/15%
Progress: 15%
Location: West Hartford, CT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Built
While I'm spouting my opinion, why running so much? It's catabolic to muscle tissue. If it's fatburning you want, concentrate on your diet and your lifting.


So while training for a marathon or 10k, should we just be mindful of our heartrate that it doesn't get too high and we go into a catabolic state?

Anyone can answer this one if they can. I would greatly appreciate it.
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  #66   ^
Old Tue, May-11-04, 08:47
Trainerdan's Avatar
Trainerdan Trainerdan is offline
Posts: 2,518
 
Plan: Zone
Stats: 255/242/230 Male 75 inches (6'3")
BF:21%/15%/8%
Progress: 52%
Location: Philly
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yes, heart rate zone training and proper sports nutrition pre workout, during workout, and post workout are critical for runners ... especially at the longer distances.
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  #67   ^
Old Tue, May-11-04, 09:01
pookalee pookalee is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 774
 
Plan: Carb Cycling
Stats: 188/173/150 Female 5'9"
BF:
Progress: 39%
Location: Louisiana
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Alright, Im a beginner, well, been doing some resistance training but have upped my weight considerably to gain muscle and lose 20 -25 lbs. I am going to lift 3x week (45 min per to start) and cardio 2-3x (or maybe cardio 2 and add another lift day). I am staying around 20-25 carbs a day. I have GNC Pro-Performance 100% whey protien at 4g carbs, 20g protien per scoop. I can fit this into my carb counts on lift days. As a beginner, should I do this, or is this more for those who are already in shape, ie. no weight to lose?
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  #68   ^
Old Tue, May-11-04, 09:33
Built's Avatar
Built Built is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 3,661
 
Plan: Metabolic Surge
Stats: 170/139/? Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Canada's Wet Coast
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Hey - here's what I'm thinking for you:

My feeling is to try incorporating a small serving - perhaps 20g of protein, and see how your fat-loss progresses. Make sure you get it into you IMMEDIATELY after lifting, and make sure you work HARD when you're lifting so you're set up to push it into your muscles, and not just glycolyze it.

And the extra lifting day sounds like a GREAT idea - but not for a whole body programme - work it into a 2 or 4 day split so your body parts get some rest from day to day.



- Built
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  #69   ^
Old Tue, May-11-04, 09:36
Vanity3's Avatar
Vanity3 Vanity3 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 828
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 265/247.5/145 Female 5'4.25"
BF:50%/46%/15%
Progress: 15%
Location: West Hartford, CT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainerdan
yes, heart rate zone training and proper sports nutrition pre workout, during workout, and post workout are critical for runners ... especially at the longer distances.


could you give an example of proper pre/post/during workout nutrition would be. I don't want to get anything wrong. I'm trying to loss some fat but build longer lean muscles.
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  #70   ^
Old Tue, May-11-04, 10:06
doogieb's Avatar
doogieb doogieb is offline
Modified :)
Posts: 1,387
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 242/223/175 Male 170cm
BF:
Progress: 28%
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chipperoo
Anyway, if the sticks are the only way you can tell if you are in ketosis ( I used to use them, but the stinky pee is enough for me now-a-days *read, cheaper*), then get them and start at a low amount of dex, say 10 grams or so and see if you stay in keto. If you do, you can work your way up a little at a time to see how much works for you without kicking you out.

And if you don't wanna' tempt it, don't, lots of people do CKD without the small carbs after workouts, still works.


Cool.

I've been on Atkins for almost 8 months now (but stick to 25g or less carbs a day pretty much), so part of my problem is ketosis is just so natural that I can't remember whether I'm in it our out of it! I got the metalic taste etc at first, but either that's gone or I'm so used to it I don't notice!

Is the stinky pee a good sign? I've noticed it pretty bad few times particularly after a hard work out, but wasn't sure if it was something to do with making myself dehydrated. I normally drink loads (quick US calculation!) I've had about 250 oz of water today, so my pee is normally pretty dilluted!
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  #71   ^
Old Tue, May-11-04, 10:28
legwarmers's Avatar
legwarmers legwarmers is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 353
 
Plan: NHE
Stats: 135/133/140 Female 64"
BF:15%
Progress: -40%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanity3
could you give an example of proper pre/post/during workout nutrition would be. I don't want to get anything wrong. I'm trying to loss some fat but build longer lean muscles.


i just posted postworkout on the six pack thread.

you can't really deviate much with high fat low carb anyway so it's not going to matter a ton before workout.. just make sure you eat something substantial (ie: real food kind of meal) about an hour before going.
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  #72   ^
Old Tue, May-11-04, 12:26
Chipperoo's Avatar
Chipperoo Chipperoo is offline
Southern Gentleman
Posts: 741
 
Plan: CKD
Stats: 272/219/210 Male 70.5 inches
BF:30+/20-21/14-15
Progress: 85%
Location: NW Georgia (Near Atlanta)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doogieb

Is the stinky pee a good sign? I've noticed it pretty bad few times particularly after a hard work out, but wasn't sure if it was something to do with making myself dehydrated.

Well, it works for me. Of course, the more your urine is diluted, the less keytones there will be in it. And the more dehydrated you are , there will be more. If you use the strips, you'll see the same thing. If you have very dark purple, you are probably not drinking enough water. It's sometimes hard to tell, for me, with the strips, because I burn a lot of my keytones and drink a lot of water, thus making it harder to read the strips, as they don't always show much color even when I am in ketosis.
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  #73   ^
Old Tue, May-11-04, 12:49
Built's Avatar
Built Built is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 3,661
 
Plan: Metabolic Surge
Stats: 170/139/? Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Canada's Wet Coast
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Chip - I've noticed this too. Could you expand on the "burning ketones" thing? I know this happens, but I really don't understand it.
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  #74   ^
Old Tue, May-11-04, 13:55
liftnlady's Avatar
liftnlady liftnlady is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 821
 
Plan: hi prot/carb/cal cycling
Stats: 138.5/133.5/120 Female 64 inches
BF:20%
Progress: 27%
Location: San francisco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Built
Chip - I've noticed this too. Could you expand on the "burning ketones" thing? I know this happens, but I really don't understand it.



ditto what built said !!
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  #75   ^
Old Tue, May-11-04, 14:07
Chipperoo's Avatar
Chipperoo Chipperoo is offline
Southern Gentleman
Posts: 741
 
Plan: CKD
Stats: 272/219/210 Male 70.5 inches
BF:30+/20-21/14-15
Progress: 85%
Location: NW Georgia (Near Atlanta)
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Ya'll *said with nice southern drawl* are going to have to go back and re-read ya'll Atkin's books! This is very basic to low-carb diets. When in ketosis, our bodies use ketones that are made by fat (either dietary or bodyfat) for it's main source of fuel, instead of glycogen which is made by carbs.

When you use keto strips, you are measuring the ketones that have "spilled" over into your urine because they were more than your body needed for fuel. If you are more active, you will use more and spill less. If you drink a lot, they will be more diluted as you will have more urine that is being "spilled" into. Ketones also stink, so the smell of your urine is a telltale sign of ketosis, as is your breath.
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