I think you should read my post again, and I think my daughter would tell you anyone less interfering than me you would be hard pressed to meet, but in the end things have to be said and in this case a few words have worked even though I hated saying them, and my daughter is down 2.5 stones at least so no regrets! As for eating disorders this was never the issue with her, she has PCOS and I knew that even when all around her were saying over eating was the problem, she probably eats mor eon Atkins than she ever did before, just differently. I have worked in the Health Service for many years and understand eating disorders (and over bearing parents) very well! What ever, take heart all you girls with PCOS Atkins obviously works.

While my mom can be supportive she also makes the occasional snide comment(phrased in the form of a question that is supossed to make it okay) or the sabatoge like bringing out icecream & treats for the kids because she is just sure now that I am on this WOL I wont buy these things for the kids!
Whatever, I finally told her off & she did the distancing herself but that's okay. Sometimes too much of "Mom" is a bad thing. If you know what I mean.

I don't think that is possible. They have to eat an immodest amount for their body or else they wouldn't be fat, me included. The twist is that we cannot eat what others eat, but can only determine a healthy diet based upon what our own bodies need.

If we get fat, it is because we've eaten too much of the bad stuff, and probably not enough of the good stuff.

It IS that simple. Atkins is an example of that simplicity. Find the good, and cut out the bad.

Jeffrey, I really have to disagree with this. A few years ago I took a university trip to Central America. We were there for 2 months, we were fed a fairly low-cal diet and were very active the entire time. Unfortunately the food primarily consisted of starch (beans, rice, more rice). I knew nothing about insulin resistance or Atkins, and I was stunned when after 6 weeks I suddenly gained 10 lbs and broke out in acne. I thought it must be the climate but it was actually my hormones going haywire (PCOS).


Yeah, I ate "too much" of the bad stuff. But quantity-wise I didn't eat much at all, so I think the label of "glutton" would be completely inaccurate and inappropriate.

The point is that being called a "glutton" should not be considered a bad thing.

Just shrug your shoulders and say to them "Duh, I already know I ate too much of the bad stuff and not enough of the good stuff."

No reason to deny that eating poorly has made us fat.

It is more a gluttony of ignorance. So, yes we are probably also "ignorant". Gluttonous ignorant fat people, everyone of us. But now we are not so ignorant. And we realize that high carb, low cal, diets are not good for our bodies.

Sticks and stones, people. Don't let the names hurt. Empower yourself with your recently found knowledge of what is good for your own body!

We will have to agree to disagree then. Personally I use the Merriam-Webster definition of gluttony:

glutton: one given habitually to greedy and voracious eating and drinking

To me this implies large quantities of food. It says nothing about the quality. I have just related my experience of suddenly gaining weight while eating modest quantities of food, albeit food of poor quality.

Jeffrey, people don't like this label because it implies that we sat around stuffing our faces with whatever and our fatness is proof of it. That definitely was not my experience. I got fat without even trying!

Amazing how one can be a "glutton" and gain weight on 1000 calories of "good" food a day. Which has happened to me many times over the years in attempts to lose weight.

Debbie

If you were gaining weight, and if it was the good food for your body, then you were a glutton relative to what your body needed.

If it was high in carbs, and if your body does better with a high protein diet, then it wasn't "good" food. And you were then being a glutton on the bad food.

Everyone repeat after me:
I am fat.
I am fat because of what I ate.
I am fat because I ate too much of the bad food, and probably not enough of the good food.

I was not born at 200 or 300 pounds. Eating made me this way.
Eating better relative to my body can bring me to my goal weight and keep me there.

Jeffrey, you're totally missing the attitude of gluttony: "Greey and voracious." I cannot accept that I am a glutton. I ate too much yes. And I accept responsibility for getting myself fat, but I did not eat like a glutton. I thought I was feeding my body responsibly. I thought I was eating to lose weight and feed my body properly.

I really wish you would stop with this glutton garbage. It is a value judgement on all of us who are overweight that is not deserved. We are not fat due to some character flaw. We are fat for many reasons that included, for the most part, overeating carbs.

And yes, words do hurt. No matter what we say about "sticks and stones..." If they didn't, we wouldn't wind up with laws against defamation and libel. And we wouldn't have the science of semantics.

I would be upset if my mom read and/or wrote in my journal, the place I turn to for support.

Although I am truly not one to hold a grudge, it took me 10 years to get over my mom's indiscretion in my paper version journal. She did it for my own good as she was worried about me, and I do understand that. But she crossed the line of my privacy, and the line of trust as well.

When I read a post here, I KNOW that it's only one side of the medal. When I write a post here, I expect the readers to have the same better judgement.

When Jade wrote here, she was confiding feeling hurt, with all of her own personal distortions. This is what this place is for.

Perhaps Jade's mom was right in her own distortion as well, and making these comments about her daughter's weight were indeed in the objective of having her daughter "get going" in the best way that she knows. But they did hurt, and that's why we're here anonymously. To listen, to give advice, to support, to take her side when situations occurr.

I hope that you will find a ground to forgive one another, to heal your wounds, and to find strategies to deal with each other as equals, respecting each other's needs.

Charlaine

Well, if you go to http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=gluttony you will see it defined as:
"Excess in eating or drinking."

If someone gets 100 pounds or so overweight, then I'd say there was an excess of eating. The mass that was once outside their body is now inside their body. How did it get there if they didn't eat it?

I'm only talking about this because it is an important point. I didn't bring up the word "gluttony" in this thread. Someone else brought it up as something to be afraid of. Afraid to be called a glutton. What I'm trying to say is don't be afraid to be called a glutton.

Seems to me that some fat people protest too much and want themselves and others to believe that they didn't overeat. What I'm saying is that relative to their own body's needs they must have overeaten or else they wouldn't fat. Seems to me it would be healthy to accept that fact.

This is not a judgement of character or morality. Being fat has nothing to do with being a good/bad person. Being fat only has to do with the fact of overeating relative to what your body needed.

It is a terrible shame when someone (fat or thin) is afraid that their eating habits will label them as a bad person. I'm not sure where that comes from. I'm not sure it comes so much from outsiders as it does from one's own negative image.

The person who started this thread was hurt by her mother's words. But I doubt the words from mom is the source of the hurt. Instead, the hurt probably comes from within ourselves, from what we think about ourselves.

My judgement tells me I should just let this go, but...

Jeffrey, I think you are redefining the term "glutton" to suit your point. You may have found a definition that technically agrees with what you are saying, but you are completely ignoring the overall meaning that is conveyed by the word. The concept of gluttony has historically been considered one of the seven deadly sins - it encompasses greed, excess, lack of self-control, and voracious appetite. Most of us here are tired of people assuming that we go home and secretly eat cheesecakes in the closet every night. And as Deb pointed out there is a reason why the science of semantics exists - to facilitate communication by choosing language appropriate to a given situation.



You are overlooking the phenomenon of insulin resistance entirely, the mechanism by which a person can eat moderately (say, 1500 cals/day maybe in my example) AND exercise AND still gain weight. Where did the fat come from? From improper diet and dysfunctional metabolism, NOT voracious eating! Technically, to meet my body's needs one could say that I underate the foods that I really needed. There is a huge difference between that and habitual binging.

I'm not trying to attack you personally, I think you are actually making a very valid point regarding self-acceptance and willingness to take total responsibility for everything that happens from this moment forward. That's a great and important point. But your message is getting lost through your unfortunate choice of words, because they are implying something very different- something that many of us just won't agree with here.

As for Jadefox's original post, yes the hurt is from within, but unfortunately our families have an uncanny ability to put it there. I suffered the same thing from my mother for years. It wasn't until I understood my body better that I was able to adopt the belief that "I am not a glutton! (i.e. a sinner!)" despite what she said, and take control of my life. But that is another story. I think the labels we use or don't use on ourselves are extremely important in our personal empowerment and "glutton" is one that should be tossed ASAP.

Rant over. Peace.

Grimalkin, the whole concept of sin is absurd. I think that is where we fundamentally diverge.

Gluttony can't be a sin, because sin doen't exist. Personally, I wouldn't even use the term gluttony to describe a fat person. But since the term was used, and everyone seems to be so afraid of it, I say fine call me a glutton. Doesn't change the reality of what I am or what causes me to be fat.

Jeffrey, I'm not "afraid" of being called a glutton. But I wholey disagree that it describes me in any way. And I object to being labelled that way by anyone, either you or the person who first introduced it into this thread.

I also agree that there is no such thing as sin. But the word glutton is used as an epithet and as such is objectionable and cruel. I also object to other terms used to cast judgement on people. And I object to being judged by you or anyone else in that manner. You weren't in my shoes when I became fat. You don't know what I did or didn't do to get here.

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And about Jade and her mom. I guess I didn't get it. I saw Jade's post, her mom's post and Jade's followup as the normal back and forth between mother and daughter. In Jade's "reply" to her mom, it was clear that they had "made up" long before her mother saw the post and that it was water under the bridge. I think Jade's mom wanted to explain her side of the story in her post to the rest of us, not Jade.

It seems to me a lot of people are assuming that Jade's mom is controling and Jade should distance herself from her mom. But after reading Jade's mom's response, it seemed to me that she was trying not to be too controlling, but because she cares so much, she had to step in. And she did it initially by starting Atkins with Jade.

Sometimes, even when we are as careful of another person's feelings as we can, we still step on their toes. My mom has done that to me, I've done it to her. But we have always been able to work it out because we both care very much for each other and are willing to listen. I think Jade and her mom listen to each other. That's what I got out of their exchange on this thread.

I realize not everyone has a good relationship with their parents/children. But I'd like to give Jade's mom and Jade credit for working it out.

I get that too. And I have a family member that outweighs me by about 100 lbs..but insists on calling my every time she starts a new diet so she can tell me what I NEED to be eating. None of her diets ever last more than a couple weeks..yet she seems to be the diet expert! LOL