Thats hilarious! I think you need to do some research before you even think something like that RCFletcher. What has PETA done that is even remotely "Militant"? Name one thing. You guys have been slinging around a lot of mud and not a single thing to back it up. To be militant you have to carry out violant acts. PETA does not. Their are militant animal rights groups out their but PETA isnt one of them. You dislike PETA because they dont think like you, seems only natural that that feeling is returned. Its a circle where everyone thinks they are right and the other side is wrong, but the other side thinks the same thing. I would be carful about throwing around the world militant.

And you are just making assumptions freckles. Do any of you even look into any of this when you say something? Peta has never said to relase your domesticated animals into the wild. They are against breeding, there is a big difference. I think people should be allowed to have pet as long as they are good to them. Doenst mean I am against peta's because they hold an opposite view then me on it. I am totally behind them when it comes to breeding though. They do not advocate people give their animals up to shelters because they shouldent have pets. They advocate good treatment for a pet if you have one. Your making one thing into something else. Maybe they feel it would be better if people didnt have pets(and that is most certinaly NOT all of them) but they dont kill any animals I am not even sure where a rumor like that even came from. If PETA put down any animal it would be for humane reasons.

DEM, I admire you for being honest enough to admit that you are doing something you feel is wrong for your own selfish reasons. That sounds like a backwards compliment, but it's not; people go against their own principles all the time and use rationalizations to make themselves feel better about it. But ...

Do you honestly believe that the majority of farms, etc., beat their animals to death or cause them to live under very stressful conditions? Animals who are severely stressed are not healthy. Just like people, they get sick more quickly, die sooner, etc. I'm not saying that businesses are noble. Businesses are about making money, and sometimes they don't always do the right thing. However, the activities that PETA "exposes" have very little to do with legitimate businesses because cruelty doesn't offer much of a return.

Here is where a dose of healthy cynicism would do you some good, DEM. Radical organizations such as PETA are generally helmed, not by moderates, but by the most radical members of their group. (I am not singling PETA out here, BTW. This will hold true for most organizations. You're never going to get Potato Growers of America—if there is such an organization—to admit that eating potatoes every day isn't really healthy, even though we know that to be true.) And people who radically believe in a cause generally can't be counted on to give you the whole truth.

PETA doesnt even say that it happens all the time everywhere thought Freckle so I am not sure what you are getting at but I think I understand it somewhat. Just because its not standard procedure to torture an animal a group like PETA shouldent exist to expose it if it does? I just dont agree with you about the radical part at all. They might do crazy things(never something like attacking a lab or anything of that nature) once in a while to get some attention to a cause but never is it anything radical such as hurting someone to get a point across.

Not true, DEM. All militant means is "Having a combative character; aggressive, especially in the service of a cause: a militant political activist."

Thats not the context it was used in and we both know that but I will go with that. In that case every organization on earth is militant. The NRA, PETA, Any religious organization etc. So if thats the way it is in your mind I am all for it.

Every hunter that says they have a right to kill animals and eat them is just as militant as the ones that say you dont have that right?

Or even better, Every person that opposes PETA is obviously combative and aggresive in their opposition to what PETA does and believes so in turn must also be a militant.

No, I think it's important to have watchdog groups. And I think that PETA has done some good. But PETA does support the more violent groups. PETA donated $1500 to the Earth Liberation Federation, which I believe is listed by the FBI as a terrorist organization. In fact, check out this quote from PETA spokesman Bruce Freidrich:
And no, not every organization is militant. PETA is "combative" and "aggressive." They are not directly violent, but they support violence.

I'm not saying that everyone who belongs to PETA is wrong. I think it's great that someone is trying to make humans accountable for the way we treat animals. What I'm saying is that as an organization, they are not balanced. The ASPCA, the Northshore League, and the American Humane Society are just a few examples of pro-animal groups that seem, to me, to be a bit more balanced.

Ok, I understand your point of view now. I will admit there are always going to be some people that are dangerous but it cant be used to portray an entire organization. I think I am done with this thread though because we are all going to have our opinions on it one way or another and this thread could go on into infinity otherwise. Its spiraled completely out of its original purpose. I think we can all agree on one thing. We believe what we believe and no amount of talking is gonna change that

Well, best of luck to you. Maybe you should try going veggie; I think you would feel better about yourself. You can't do Atkins as a vegan, but it wouldn't be too difficult if you were an ovo-lacto vegetarian (eggs and cheese) or a pescetarian (fish).

Bingo.

They are concerned with the bottom line, and they will make more money if their meat and milk is rich and flavorful. A stressed animal is an unhappy animal. There is no monetary incentive to abuse animals or make them suffer. Not only does this slow down production but it makes for an inferior product. A quick death = more meat, faster. A slow, painful death = slower production of meat.

Does PETA care about logic and common sense and the truth? No, they do not. 90% of PETA's activities center on proliferating sensational propaganda.

You often hear rabid animal rights people compare the meat industry to the nazi holocaust. Well, last time I checked, concentration camp victims were extremely unhealthy and often died of diseases. If slaughter animals were treated the same way as people in the german concentration camps, they would not be fit for consumption at all. Not only would the muscles be tough and scrawny from all the stress and lack of fat, but the meat would be likely diseased.

You know, even the very fact that some of these animal rights wackos have the gall to compare a human genocide to the practice of raising in humane conditions a barely sentient cud-chewing cow for food, is enough evidence for me that these people are grappling with severe neurosis. I don't buy for a second that they really do care about the life of an animal like they would the life of another human... they view all life as equally worthless. For some reason or another vegetarians feel very little spiritual connection and loyalty to other humans. It's not that they value animals like normal people value humans, instead they just look at all life (including other humans) as equally unimportant and "there". Because they don't view people as special (as normal humans should), they just can't understand things regular people take for granted, such as why it is more morally wrong to kill a human than it is to kill a dog. This is a very scary prospect indead.

People are always surprised to learn adolf hitler was a vegetarian. I am not. I know that someone being vegetarian shows more that they are unempathetic, disillusioned, dispassionate, and do not value human life, more so than it shows they are compassionate people who value the lives of animals. I've noticed this "detachment" from human beings as an all too common trait in vegans. Even people who profess to really love animals, these people are usually instead using animals to replace what should be normal human relationships in their lives. Ever meet a man or a woman with 10 birds, 10 cats, but absolutely hates children and is usually a bit of a loner? It really is quite a common "disorder", using animals as a proxy to live out relationships/feelings you are incapable of expressing with other humans.

Woo, I worry about you. Vegetarians do not value human life?

"I know that someone being vegetarian shows more that they are unempathetic, disillusioned, dispassionate, and do not value human life"

You are rabidly anti-animal it seems, and just reading your posts should scare the bajesus out of people. You my friend are an extremist.

Do YOU know anything about the meat industry? And making things up in your head about what you THINK you know about it doesnt count. Peta gives me proof about animal cruelty, thats what they are looking for so it makes sense that that what their videos/literature would be about. They are their because of reports of animal cruelty not because they want to sit around make things up.

Just because an event included humans doesnt mean it cant be used to compare a similar even taking place elsewhere to non-humans. The word holocaust existed well before the nazi holocaust. I have 2 cats and a dog, and plenty of friends...whats your point? I know a few vegetarians that have no pets. I am not quite sure you even know what you are talking about. It sounds like you live in a little box.

You know, dem, as much as I enjoy this little chat we are having, I am just going to have to exit the discussion before I say something I might regret.

Go for it. You wont bother me. Any thing to back up any of what you said would be great. I could care less if you call me names the whole time. Give me something that gives credence to anything you said. You know a mentaly disturbed person that has a lot of cats. That doesnt qualify you as a passer of judgement on vegetarians. And from your post I can tell you dont have any vegetarian friends so where do you get your information?

Woah, there. You're painting with a pretty broad brush. Yes, I think that people who value animals over humans are a little out of whack (just as I agree that PETA is definitely not a balanced and fair organization), but many people are vegetarians because they believe that all life, human included, is sacred. (I believe that too, to some extent, but "sacred" and "untouchable" are not the same thing, IMO.) Some people are vegetarians because they believe it's a healthier lifestyle. Some people are vegetarian for religious reasons.

I think it's fair to say that many vegetarians (vegans especially) who are very vocal about their lifestyle do seem to have issues with people, but I really don't think the majority are like that, just as the majority of omnivores don't "enjoy holding the power of life and death over something," as DEM claimed earlier. (Sorry, DEM, that one was a little over the top.)

No problem freckl but that comment was in response to the comment that some vegetarians somehow disvalued human life. My meaning was that if that was true then surely some people hunted becaue they enjoyed being able to hold life and death over something. If one is true so is the other. I might have been to broad when I stated it but I meant what was behind it. I dont go so far as to say they devalue animal life though, just that they might enjoy holding death over something.

But adolph hitler comparison..come on.

Ah, understood. Well, it's true that some vegetarians do not value human life. I doubt there are many, but I personally know at least one, and she can't be the only one who would prefer to see a human die rather than a cow.

I imagine you are right, also, and that there are a few people who get their jollies out of killing animals. I just don't think that's the majority of omnivores, or even hunters.