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  #1   ^
Old Sun, Feb-08-04, 14:46
ItsTheWooo's Avatar
ItsTheWooo ItsTheWooo is offline
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Posts: 4,815
 
Plan: My Own
Stats: 280/118/117.5 Female 5ft 5.25 in
BF:
Progress: 100%
Thumbs down NAAFA and obesity-enabling

We all know NAAFA has an anti-dieting stance. Curious, I decided to go to the source, their own web board, and open up a dialog of communication regarding this issue. I posted a message to their forum asking if they would support efforts of sustainable, permanent health-promoting lifestyle changes which are not unnaturally extreme and do not cause discomfort that involve weight loss.

I did not write anything which promoted LC diets, I did not try to shame them into dieting, or anything like that. I just essentially asked if they are against exploitation of the fat by the diet industry and fad diets which don't work, or if they were against the belief of fat is something bad which should try to be changed itself. I asked if they would support the educated, informed attempt at changing ones life in a sustainable way which would improve health and lower weight. Well, the forum moderator locked my thread immediately, with this message:

"I'm not clear on your position. A "change of lifestyle" that results in weight loss is usually a diet. Diets don't generally work, and they're not supported here.
It sounds as if you have lost weight and can't imagine why others wouldn't want to, too. The fact is, many people do want to lose weight, but this board is about accepting onesself as we are, not trying to fit into a cultural standard that may or may not be the best thing for any individual. Please keep that in mind when posting."

So then I PMed her and explained the term "lifestyle change". I describe it as replacing bad habits with healthy, painless, positive ones which also reduce weight. I explained to her the difference between a lifestyle change and a weight loss diet is that a lifestyle change can be maintained effortlessly, assuming that the user is diligent and doesnt regress into old habits out of laziness. I didn't get into the issue that reducing weight is 9 times out of 10 a health promoting activity because I wasn't prepared to open that bag of worms.

Again, she just replied by saying "any efforts which involve intentionally trying to lose weight is a diet and not supported by NAAFA". She also said this was not welcome to be discussed on the board (basically saying I would not be welcome if I kept pressing the issue).

IMO this response just depresses me. It seems clear to me now that NAAFA isn't about supporting fat people to find the esteem enough to do whats best for them... it's about enabling them to stay fat with lies. They are encouraging fat people to FIGHT against doing what is best for their health. They are convincing the fat and hopeless that having extra fat is ok, that fat is a benign substance, a physically neutral tissue like having lots of hair vs little hair. This is obviously untrue. Fat is metabolically active. Extra fat, not only the situations which tend to cause fatness, have been shown to promote insulin resistance, sex hormone disorders, and heart disease. Visceral fat is well known to promote heart disease. Fat tissue is hormonally active, causing hormonal disorders. Excess fat tissue and fat also tends to store environmental pollutants. Having a large body mass to support puts strain on joints and cardiovascular system. Being larger means you have a much higher metabolism since you eat more, and metabolic activity itself contributes to shortened lifespan.

IMO, NAAFA is a downright shameful and potentially dangerous organization. These people would look a bed ridden 700 pound woman square in the eye, and tell her not to try to "make lifestyle changes with the intention of losing weight". I hold them in about as high a regard as I do pro-ana and pro-mia eating disorder groups.

Last edited by ItsTheWooo : Sun, Feb-08-04 at 14:48.
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  #2   ^
Old Sun, Feb-08-04, 16:09
cls923's Avatar
cls923 cls923 is offline
California Dreamin
Posts: 646
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 230/150/150 Female 5'8"
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Progress: 100%
Location: Southern California
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Well said, and I totally agree!!
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  #3   ^
Old Sun, Feb-08-04, 16:47
Zuleikaa Zuleikaa is offline
Finding the Pieces
Posts: 17,049
 
Plan: Mishmash
Stats: 365/308.0/185 Female 66
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Progress: 32%
Location: Maryland, US
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I disagree.
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  #4   ^
Old Sun, Feb-08-04, 17:39
adkpam's Avatar
adkpam adkpam is offline
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Posts: 2,320
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 185/151/145 Female 67 inches
BF:
Progress: 85%
Location: Adirondack Mountains, NY
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"any efforts which involve intentionally trying to lose weight is a diet and not supported by NAAFA"

What if they decided to improve their HEALTH with a walking program or watching their carbs because they have diabetes? Would that qualify as a no-no to NAAFA?
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  #5   ^
Old Sun, Feb-08-04, 19:07
Zuleikaa Zuleikaa is offline
Finding the Pieces
Posts: 17,049
 
Plan: Mishmash
Stats: 365/308.0/185 Female 66
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Location: Maryland, US
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Probably not. That's a health issue. They encourage activity.
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  #6   ^
Old Sun, Feb-08-04, 19:13
odyssey's Avatar
odyssey odyssey is offline
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Posts: 812
 
Plan: my own
Stats: 35/35/22 Female 5'5.5''
BF::(/:(/:)
Progress: 0%
Location: South West, Kentucky
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I disagree as well. These people are inundated with talk about fat being bad and losing weight all day every day in one way or another. They have few other if any other places to talk without it being discussed. NAAFA gives them that place And in many cases it is a place they need just to keep their sanity in a world that is summarily against them.

What may be easy and painless for you may not be for someone else. Just look on this board and you can see there are a lot of people who for one reason or another backslide or "cheat" as they call it(i hate that word). Many people who are overweight may indeed want a lifestyle change if they truly and honestly believed and had proof it would work personally for them. But many also have taken so many chances and believed only to have their hopes dashed and their weight grow ever heavier.

Going to NAAFA with something like that is the near equivilent of going to a home for repeatedly battered women(in multiple relationships) and talking about eHarmony or something like that. It might work for a lot of people who join eHarmony but the fact that it doesn't work in *every* case means that there are people who belong to that shelter who would end up getting hurt more than they already are.
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  #7   ^
Old Sun, Feb-08-04, 19:48
Zuleikaa Zuleikaa is offline
Finding the Pieces
Posts: 17,049
 
Plan: Mishmash
Stats: 365/308.0/185 Female 66
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Maryland, US
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odyssey
You said well what I couldn't find the words for.
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  #8   ^
Old Sun, Feb-08-04, 20:14
Sunslyte Sunslyte is offline
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Posts: 160
 
Plan: just low carb
Stats: 350/305/150 Female 5'2"
BF:
Progress: 23%
Location: Johnson County, Kansas
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I must say that going to the NAAFA to try to start a conversation about something that you had to know was going to be unwelcome was inappropriate at best.

Each of us has the right to choose our own lifestyle, whether Someone Else thinks its good for us or not.
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  #9   ^
Old Sun, Feb-08-04, 22:04
Dean4Prez's Avatar
Dean4Prez Dean4Prez is offline
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Posts: 356
 
Plan: CKD
Stats: 225/170/150 Male 66
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Progress: 73%
Location: Austin, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunslyte
I must say that going to the NAAFA to try to start a conversation about something that you had to know was going to be unwelcome was inappropriate at best.


Inappropriate? Yeah, the gods forbid people on a "public" website be exposed to something that might make them change their minds.

ItsTheWooo, "You sadist, you try and make people think," as e.e. cummings said to Ezra Pound.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunslyte
Each of us has the right to choose our own lifestyle, whether Someone Else thinks its good for us or not.

But my right to choose my own lifestyle doesn't mean Someone Else has no right to tell me he/she thinks my lifestyle is wrong/immoral/unhealthy/etc. OTOH, his/her right to tell me his/her opinion doesn't mean I have no right to tell him/her to get stuffed. And so on, and so on...
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  #10   ^
Old Sun, Feb-08-04, 22:22
Dean4Prez's Avatar
Dean4Prez Dean4Prez is offline
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Posts: 356
 
Plan: CKD
Stats: 225/170/150 Male 66
BF:
Progress: 73%
Location: Austin, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsTheWooo
IMO this response just depresses me. It seems clear to me now that NAAFA isn't about supporting fat people to find the esteem enough to do whats best for them... it's about enabling them to stay fat with lies.

I agree with you. The idea of NAAFA depresses me too -- it seems like the psychological equivalent of an animal gnawing off its leg to escape a trap. Even more tragic, from the viewpoint of a low-carbing self-metaprogrammer like myself, the trap is itself an illusion -- like an elephant trained during childhood by being fastened to a stake too strong for it to budge, who can be "restrained" as an adult by a leg chain attached to a lightweight stake that it could easily break.

However, as your experience shows, they will vigorously resist anything that might challenge their shared illusion. I say leave them be. It's much more fun to hang out here and create threads with suggestive titles (like this one: http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=165381 )
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  #11   ^
Old Mon, Feb-09-04, 07:09
odyssey's Avatar
odyssey odyssey is offline
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Posts: 812
 
Plan: my own
Stats: 35/35/22 Female 5'5.5''
BF::(/:(/:)
Progress: 0%
Location: South West, Kentucky
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It has nothing to do with changing their minds. It has to do with healing internally. There are plenty and plenty of places to go to learn about weight loss if that is what they are READY to go and do again.
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  #12   ^
Old Mon, Feb-09-04, 09:51
adkpam's Avatar
adkpam adkpam is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,320
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 185/151/145 Female 67 inches
BF:
Progress: 85%
Location: Adirondack Mountains, NY
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There is a lot of food for thought here, but the elephant example makes me think of the principle of "learned helplessness."
It is extremely discouraging to try to do things about one's weight & health and find only failure and despair. I think that was this organization's motivating factor, as a support group for people with a serious problem.
But just as I blame the American Diabetes Association for ignoring Dr. Bernstein's Solution, I blame any organization that does not act to TRULY help their members.
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  #13   ^
Old Mon, Feb-09-04, 10:26
Kristine's Avatar
Kristine Kristine is offline
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Posts: 25,581
 
Plan: Primal/P:E
Stats: 171/146/150 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 119%
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
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>>"Inappropriate? Yeah, the gods forbid people on a "public" website be exposed to something that might make them change their minds."

I agree - I think it's fair game to ask group members to clarify their mandate. NAAFA isn't just a support forum like this one, it's a organization with money and an agenda. The line between "improving one's lifestyle" and "dieting" is a very fuzzy one.
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  #14   ^
Old Mon, Feb-09-04, 11:02
FromVA FromVA is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 632
 
Plan: DANDR
Stats: 191/153/145 Female 66.5
BF:
Progress: 83%
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Quote:


"I'm not clear on your position. A "change of lifestyle" that results in weight loss is usually a diet. Diets don't generally work, and they're not supported here.
It sounds as if you have lost weight and can't imagine why others wouldn't want to, too. The fact is, many people do want to lose weight, but this board is about accepting onesself as we are, not trying to fit into a cultural standard that may or may not be the best thing for any individual..."


The effect of obesity on one's health certainly wouldn't fit into "a cultural standard ". It's a serious health issue! And the statement, "Diets don't generally work...", is just plain ignorant. Diets DO work, but you have to change your lifestyle to maintain the weight loss.

Quote:
"any efforts which involve intentionally trying to lose weight is a diet and not supported by NAAFA"

This group is nuts...if they are trying to help their members that is sure convoluted thinking. How in the world do they "help one heal internally" by discouraging discussion of efforts which involve intentionally trying to lose weight?? A lot of the poor self-esteem is the result of that weight!
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  #15   ^
Old Mon, Feb-09-04, 11:30
Zuleikaa Zuleikaa is offline
Finding the Pieces
Posts: 17,049
 
Plan: Mishmash
Stats: 365/308.0/185 Female 66
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Maryland, US
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Just as others have been asked to leave this board who promote hc diets, I believe it was right to ask you to take your message elsewhere from NAAFA.
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