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  #46   ^
Old Wed, Sep-11-02, 19:38
Trainerdan's Avatar
Trainerdan Trainerdan is offline
Posts: 2,518
 
Plan: Zone
Stats: 255/242/230 Male 75 inches (6'3")
BF:21%/15%/8%
Progress: 52%
Location: Philly
Default well

You have to follow the exercise protocall, and the LC portion of the diet ... And them, use the calculator to figure out how many carbs you can have. It's usually a pretty high number, so basically the answer to your question is yes ... but there are limits.

See the CALORIES post at the top of the forum for a link to the calculator.
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  #47   ^
Old Wed, Sep-11-02, 19:42
Demi-God Demi-God is offline
New Member
Posts: 12
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 200/163/170 Male 75 in.
BF:13
Progress: 123%
Default

How would you recommend putting ECA stacks ( or any other stacks like that) with this ?
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  #48   ^
Old Thu, Sep-12-02, 12:32
Luxsit's Avatar
Luxsit Luxsit is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 356
 
Plan: MyLCWOL
Stats: 485/366/210 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 43%
Location: Colorado
Default

Demi,
I think the advice is to go from Hi GI foods on Friday and move to lower GI foods by Saturday night. Also, that you are going to be incorporating resistance training into your overall plan. Also there are specific calorie grams for carbs, protein, and fat depending on your lean body mass. So saying you can eat any amount and not put on fat is not completely true. I suggest that you read L. McDonald article throughly before starting CKD. Here's the link.

Carbing Up on Cyclical Ketogenic Diet - L. McDonald

As far as supplementing stacks, I suggest investing in Trainerdans Metabolism book. He gives a complete strategy.

Regards,
Lux
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  #49   ^
Old Thu, Sep-12-02, 13:07
tyrelle's Avatar
tyrelle tyrelle is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 55
 
Plan: Combo of PP & CKD
Stats: 380/380/195 Male 6'3"
BF:
Progress: 0%
Location: Vermont formerly of ALA.
Unhappy looking ~ my CKD parameters???

Quote:
Originally posted by Luxsit
Demi,
Also there are specific calorie grams for carbs, protein, and fat depending on your lean body mass.



I'm looking ~ my parameters...esp the carb up phase. I'm getting confused...

Should I follow the grams protein, grams carb and grams fat..or should I follow something else... portein cals, carb cals, fat cals

It also has my total cals 6768 and 4738

Any help would be appreciated....Thx.
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  #50   ^
Old Thu, Sep-12-02, 13:29
Luxsit's Avatar
Luxsit Luxsit is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 356
 
Plan: MyLCWOL
Stats: 485/366/210 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 43%
Location: Colorado
Default

Tyrelle,
I am by no means the expert here, but if you look at the Lyle McDonald article, it has some charts towards the end. First step is to determine your Lean Body Mass. Now I see your target weight is 195? How did you reach that number? My guess is that you are closer to my size, therefore I would assume your Lean Body Mass is closer to 200 pounds and your ideal weight is somewhere above that. I may be wrong on this. I am 6 feet tall, large bone structure. So for example for me, with a Lean Body Mass of 200 pounds, the McDonald Article suggests the follow gram ratios for a 24 hour carb up. I would not go beyond 24 hours since the benefits are not worth the risks of putting on fat.

Carb 900 grams
Fat 83 grams
Protein 193 grams

I like grams better than caloires, because for me grams are easier to visualize.

Next, there are some details regarding consuming calories within 2 hours of depletion workout. Check back one page for my post on my Carb plan.

Finally, you need to move from Hi GI carbs to Lower GI carbs as you go from Friday night to Saturday night.

Again, If anyone with more experience would like to chime in, be my guest.

Regards,
Lux
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  #51   ^
Old Thu, Sep-12-02, 14:00
tyrelle's Avatar
tyrelle tyrelle is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 55
 
Plan: Combo of PP & CKD
Stats: 380/380/195 Male 6'3"
BF:
Progress: 0%
Location: Vermont formerly of ALA.
Default Luxsit

Quote:
Originally posted by Luxsit
I would not go beyond 24 hours since the benefits are not worth the risks of putting on fat.

Carb 900 grams
Fat 83 grams
Protein 193 grams


I remember reading that, but i didn't see my LBM on the chart. When I calculated it stated that is 260... I think that's kind of high and plus I don't really know my weight so i guess it at 380lbs.
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  #52   ^
Old Thu, Sep-12-02, 14:06
tyrelle's Avatar
tyrelle tyrelle is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 55
 
Plan: Combo of PP & CKD
Stats: 380/380/195 Male 6'3"
BF:
Progress: 0%
Location: Vermont formerly of ALA.
Default Re: Luxsit

Ok... I found this in the article....it says:

"During the first 24 hours of carb-loading, carb intake should be 10 grams per kilo of lean body mass or 4.5 grams of carbs per pound of LBM"

So for me that would be 1170 grams of carbs for the first 24 hours? But half would be HIGH GI and the second half would be LOW GI correct?
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  #53   ^
Old Thu, Sep-12-02, 14:20
Luxsit's Avatar
Luxsit Luxsit is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 356
 
Plan: MyLCWOL
Stats: 485/366/210 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 43%
Location: Colorado
Default

Ok, let's do the math:

Example:
Lean Body Mass = 200 lbs
Conver to Kilos 200lb/2.2 kg/lb = 90.9 kg

90.9 kg x 10 carb gr = 909 carb grams for 24 hours

Does that make sense so far ?

My guess is that you are using a Lean Body Mass that is not quite accurate. Your ideal weight is listed at 195, so your Lean Body Mass would be a number at best 5-7% below that number assuming you were a bodybuilder, completely buff.

Next, as you move from Friday to Saturday, switch your carb consumption from Hi GI carbs to Lower GI carbs. So some people here eat smarties and twizzlers on Friday which are candies made from Dextrose, then by Saturday afternoon to evening you should be looking for lower GI carbs, sweat potatoes, etc for your meals. Here's the link on GI index, the ideal is to fit more Lower GI carb in as you get closer to Saturday Evening. It's not a 50%/50% thing.

GI Food Index

Hope this helps,
Lux
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  #54   ^
Old Thu, Sep-12-02, 14:25
Natrushka Natrushka is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 11,512
 
Plan: IF +LC
Stats: 287/165/165 Female 66"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Default

Although..... I read that you may want to stay with the high GI carbs if you're only doing a 24 hr carb up. There is next to no spill over with that short a window. Or did I imagine that, Dan?

N

p.s. any info on my 'rockets' or pixie sticks?
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  #55   ^
Old Thu, Sep-12-02, 15:14
tyrelle's Avatar
tyrelle tyrelle is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 55
 
Plan: Combo of PP & CKD
Stats: 380/380/195 Male 6'3"
BF:
Progress: 0%
Location: Vermont formerly of ALA.
Default

I pulled 195 out of the air, but I used the protein power book and it caculated it ~ 260lbs. 195 would be what I what I would want to get down to...lol but that's my dream. So should I not go with 260 as my lean?
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  #56   ^
Old Thu, Sep-12-02, 15:16
tyrelle's Avatar
tyrelle tyrelle is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 55
 
Plan: Combo of PP & CKD
Stats: 380/380/195 Male 6'3"
BF:
Progress: 0%
Location: Vermont formerly of ALA.
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Natrushka
Although..... I read that you may want to stay with the high GI carbs if you're only doing a 24 hr carb up. There is next to no spill over with that short a window. Or did I imagine that, Dan?

N

p.s. any info on my 'rockets' or pixie sticks?


I was thinking about just staying with HIGH GI's because I really do want to do the full sugar thing just yet.
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  #57   ^
Old Fri, Sep-13-02, 11:44
Luxsit's Avatar
Luxsit Luxsit is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 356
 
Plan: MyLCWOL
Stats: 485/366/210 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 43%
Location: Colorado
Default

Tyrelle,
I guess I would ask you what was the lowest weight you've ever been during your adult life. For me it was 235 pounds. I was doing Karate 3 times a week, and lifting weights. At that point I still was about 15% body fat, I still had excess visible fat on my body. So if I take 235 x .85 = 199.75 lbs. Lean Body Mass - That means 0% fat which is not possible to get to and survive but is the measure that most these calcuations use. Now it's entirely possible that if you are 7 feet tall and have been lifting weights for a while you might be at 260 pounds lean body mass, but if you been fairly sedentary and are closer to 6 feet tall, I suspect a number closer to 200 is more reasonable. Now by working out, i.e., doing resistance training over time you also could get to a higher LBM number.

Like I have suggested these automatic caculations of body mass, and daily intake don't work well for people more than 150 pound overweight, the models have built in assumptions that when extrapolated out to people our size are not representive of reality.

Hope this helps
Lux
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  #58   ^
Old Fri, Sep-13-02, 11:57
tyrelle's Avatar
tyrelle tyrelle is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 55
 
Plan: Combo of PP & CKD
Stats: 380/380/195 Male 6'3"
BF:
Progress: 0%
Location: Vermont formerly of ALA.
Default

OHhhhhh...I see what you are saying now..I haven't been lifting any, just started when I started doing LC. Hmm..I just started my carbup...and it was tuff eating all this food. I'm going to recaculate off of a 200 LBM. Thanks for clearing it up for me.
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  #59   ^
Old Thu, Oct-31-02, 07:49
mojoKID mojoKID is offline
New Member
Posts: 20
 
Plan: CKD
Stats: 298/190/180
BF:
Progress: 92%
Location: The Garden State, NJ
Default carb-up

You need to do high gi's on a carb-up, the main point of a carb-up is to restore leptin levels so that your metabolism is back on track for another week of intense workout and caloric deficit eating. Leptin levels get raised by a influx of calories and such, and the best way to go about loading yourself up with calories is via carbohydrates, Leptin responds better to high gi carbs which is why you want to do this at the beginning of your carb-up, and to reduce the risk of storing large amounts of water/fat at the end of the carb-up, you switch to low-gi carbs which do not spike your insulin as much as high gi's do! But you need the high gi carbs. I always get a bit frustrated and confused because I learned all my low-carb stuff from a bodybuilding forum. I'm not a body builder, I have nice muscle tone, but not bulging muscles, anyway, there is a lot to be learned from their methods, and from what I learned on the bodybuilding boards is you need to restore leptin levels as you get leaner. Some bodybuilders carb-up every 2 days or every other day!
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  #60   ^
Old Sat, Nov-02-02, 01:01
JCLAY53 JCLAY53 is offline
New Member
Posts: 3
 
Plan: PROTEIN POWER
Stats: 295/274/230 Male 74
BF:28%
Progress: 32%
Location: WALL, NEW JERSEY
Default CKD 101

DAN,
THIS IS SOME GREAT INFO. I TRIED THE ANABOLIC DIET A FEW YEARS AGO WITH SOME SUCCESS. I AM LOOKING FORWARD TO TRYING THIS AGAIN. I DID THE PROTEIN POWER DIET IN 1999 AND LOST 30 LBS IN 2 MONTHS. I GAINED THE 30 AND THEN SOME BACK. I WAS GOING TO DO THE PROTEIN POWER PLAN THIS TIME, BUT I AM GOING TO DO THE CKD INSTEAD.

THANKS
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