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  #46   ^
Old Sun, Jan-18-04, 07:26
daninmidmo daninmidmo is offline
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Plan: Caveman/Mercola
Stats: 228/176/160 Male 5'11
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Location: Columbia, MO
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  #47   ^
Old Sun, Jan-18-04, 07:47
FrecklFluf's Avatar
FrecklFluf FrecklFluf is offline
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Posts: 1,125
 
Plan: SB (formerly Atkins)
Stats: 196.5/167/140 Female 5' 4
BF:
Progress: 52%
Location: Kansas City, MO USA
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I just went to the Atkins website and submitted this comment to them:

Today, the NY Times published an article (Make That Steak a Bit Smaller, Atkins Advises Today's Dieters) that said that Colette Heimowitz, Atkins nutritionist, has been saying that only twenty percent of a dieter's calories should come from saturated fat.

I looked in the "Science Behind Atkins" section of the site, but I couldn't find any studies to back that up. The only studies I've seen suggest that saturated fats are not dangerous when combined with a low-carb diet. Yes, Dr. Atkins suggested getting your fat from a variety of sources, but where did you get the figure of twenty percent?

To be blunt, the impression this is leaving among dedicated Atkins followers is that this new suggestion has more to do with marketing than with health, and also that it's something Dr. Atkins would not have agreed with. We believe in the work Dr. Atkins did during his lifetime because it was based on real data and not swayed by the "diet of the minute"; that's why we follow this lifestyle. It's also why we support the Atkins company by purchasing the low-carb products available.

If there is a valid scientific reason to limit saturated fat intake to twenty percent of your calories, the supporting study or studies should be listed on your website. If it is listed and I somehow missed it, please send me the link.
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  #48   ^
Old Sun, Jan-18-04, 07:55
vaporgirl's Avatar
vaporgirl vaporgirl is offline
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Posts: 64
 
Plan: south beach
Stats: 172/158/140 Female 5 feet 4 inches
BF:
Progress: 44%
Location: los angeles
Default NY Times Atkins Article: Make That Steak a Bit Smaller, Atkins Advises Today's Dieter

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/18/n...pagewanted=1&hp

I've always modified my Atkins to make a little less heavy on the saturated fats so this was an interesting read. It requires registration but that's free.

"After advising dieters for years to satisfy their hunger with liberal amounts of steak, eggs and other saturated fats, the promoters of the Atkins diet now say that people on their plan should limit the amount of red meat and saturated fat they eat.

Responding to years of criticism from scientists that the Atkins version of a low-carbohydrate, high-fat regimen might lead to heart disease and other health problems, the director of research and education for Atkins Nutritionals, Colette Heimowitz, is telling health professionals in seminars around the country that only 20 percent of a dieter's calories should come from saturated fat. Atkins Nutritionals was set up by Dr. Robert C. Atkins to sell Atkins products and promote the diet.

An Atkins spokesman said Ms. Heimowitz has been giving these seminars for five years, but that they do not represent a departure from the original premise of the diet.

Atkins representatives say that Dr. Atkins, who died last year, always maintained that people should eat other food besides red meat, but had difficulty getting that message out. There has been a revision in expressing how the diet should be followed, not in the diet itself, they say."

It's about two pages online.

cb
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  #49   ^
Old Sun, Jan-18-04, 07:59
FrecklFluf's Avatar
FrecklFluf FrecklFluf is offline
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Posts: 1,125
 
Plan: SB (formerly Atkins)
Stats: 196.5/167/140 Female 5' 4
BF:
Progress: 52%
Location: Kansas City, MO USA
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That was a very interesting article, daninmidmo.
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  #50   ^
Old Sun, Jan-18-04, 08:11
kyrasdad's Avatar
kyrasdad kyrasdad is offline
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Posts: 3,058
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 338/253/210 Male 5'11"
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Progress: 66%
Location: Broken Arrow, Oklahoma
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You know, it seems to me that Atkins shouldn't need to change its approach to fat for marketing reasons, if that's why they did it. In fact, it could be the worst thing they have ever done, if they don't have science to back it up.

Consider the metaphor of two blockbuster summer movies: One is heavily hyped and marketed, with scads of CGI effects--but little substance or storyline. It doesn't work. It draws in crowds, but over time, the word of mouth kills its legs and it doesn't make money like its producers wanted. It's, say, The Incredible Hulk.

The other movie is based on a good story; it's a Big Fat Greek Wedding, say. The movie has little hype or marketing, but everyone loves it and as time goes by it makes tons of money.

Diets work that way, too. South Beach or other psuedo-low-carb diets have Bill Clinton on them; they get the hype. They have great packaging. You just don't know that they have the word of mouth that the core Atkins plan has.

The Atkins people have just taken a HUGE risk. They've in effect altered the script of their movie. They're hoping that sexing the script up will break down some dogmatic barriers to a target audience of mostly doctors. But they are now altering a cornerstone of their movie, a movie that was getting sensational word of mouth. It didn't have Princess Fergie or Bill Clinton pimping it, but that didn't matter. Their movie continued to sell tickets.

Now, if they change the script, who knows whether it's a Greek Wedding or a Hulk; they won't know until people stop coming to the movie.

By the way, there is some interesting fat research here: http://nasw.org/mem-maint/awards/01Taubesarticle8.html
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  #51   ^
Old Sun, Jan-18-04, 08:13
marchbaby's Avatar
marchbaby marchbaby is offline
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Posts: 357
 
Plan: Atkins Nutritionals
Stats: 226/204/150 Female 5'11"
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Location: NJ
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Thank you for posting the article, I've put it into my favorites.
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  #52   ^
Old Sun, Jan-18-04, 08:18
ellemenno's Avatar
ellemenno ellemenno is offline
Lurking LowCarber
Posts: 296
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 203/182/150 Female 5'3"
BF:
Progress: 40%
Location: DFW area, TX
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I could have sworn there was something in DANDR as well as AFL mentioning fats and which were good and fats which were not. There still should be some caution when eating fatty foods, since different fats affect the body in different ways. I believe he even went so far as to say himself that this wasn't all about bacon and beef.

I do believe (or at least am hopeful) one thing this article might do is encourage people to learn more about the foods they're consuming and what these foods do to their bodies.
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  #53   ^
Old Sun, Jan-18-04, 09:15
katrine77's Avatar
katrine77 katrine77 is offline
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Posts: 126
 
Plan: Zone
Stats: 235/190/145 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 50%
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One thing that really irks (sp?) me about all this debate is that there are other low carb plan creators out there who don't seem to be coming to the fore. Where are the Eades' when we need them? Why don't THEY get on Larry King Live and take the reins? They have a whole chapter in PPLP called "The Fat of the Land" which goes into great scientific detail about fat. The bottom line still seems to be that it doesn't matter how much fat you eat as long as you are getting it as naturally as possible.

I am disappointed in the Atkins corporation and I doubt very much that Dr. Atkins would support this.

k
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  #54   ^
Old Sun, Jan-18-04, 09:27
katrine77's Avatar
katrine77 katrine77 is offline
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Posts: 126
 
Plan: Zone
Stats: 235/190/145 Female 5'6"
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Ok, I just went to the Eades website and they are going to the the keynote speakers at a Low Carb Convention in Denver this month. Also, they will have an article in the NY Times in February. Whew......I was beginning to feel abandoned.
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  #55   ^
Old Sun, Jan-18-04, 09:56
CindySue48's Avatar
CindySue48 CindySue48 is offline
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Posts: 2,816
 
Plan: Atkins/Protein Power
Stats: 256/179/160 Female 68 inches
BF:38.9/27.2/24.3
Progress: 80%
Location: Triangle NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vaporgirl
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/18/n...pagewanted=1&hp
There has been a revision in expressing how the diet should be followed, not in the diet itself, they say."
cb


What is the difference between revising the diet and revising how people should follow it? Isn't "how to follow" a part of the diet?

I mean if WW said eat 50% of you calories from carbs, that's the diet instructions. If the instructions are then changed to say that 50% of your calories should come from carbs with no more than 20% from refined sugars, that's changing how the diet is followed.....AND changing the diet itself. Right?

Anyway, what REALLY bothers me most about this whole thing is that Dr A's name is tied to this and it's HIS name and beliefs that are going to be dragged thru the mud. People are going to say "Atkins has changed the diet recomendations" not "the program promoted by Atkins Nutritionals, founded by Dr Atkins, but sold to a corproate giant, has changed the diet recomendations."

All of the work he's done is at risk of being undermined by the changes promoted by Atkins Nutritionals. Dr Atkins always promoted eating natural and healthy foods and noted convenience foods should be kept to a minimum. Atkins Nutritionals, on the other hand, promotes choosing their products. Remember those commercials we thought were so cute? I wonder if they only showed up after his death because he refused to air commercials that promoted the food products rather than the plan it'self?

Well, maybe we should all hold on tight to our books! It may be the last you see of Dr Atkin's teachings.
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  #56   ^
Old Sun, Jan-18-04, 10:06
songwritur songwritur is offline
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Posts: 7
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 224/217/200 Male 6'0"
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Default atkins revises fat reccomendation

I too am sick over the people who have taken over Atkins Nutritionals since Dr Atkins death. It's disgusting and a disgrace. First they start this Net Carb crap just to sell more products to stay under Dr Atkins 20 carbs a day theory. now this to compete with the Southbeach diet which is lower in fat than atkins they now hypocritically tell the NY times that they now say you should only eat 20% fats when if you look at their damm latest book which I have Atkins Essentials every recipe in their sample menus contain 50% of all the grams are fat exactly about 1/2 of the protein count. they said they wanted to appeal to doctors to make this diet more mainstream. But by waffling like this they are now open to ridicule by the media and doctors just at a time when atkins WAS becoming acceptable to the masses and mainstream. Who ever made this awful decsison at atkins nutritionals ought to be fired.It's the biggest blunder I ever heard of in corporate America. and is already being ridiculed in the media. I am so disgusted and am thinking about going of this diet or at least following dr atkins original plan and not counting so called NET carbs but whole carbs. and I will never buy anything from atkins nutritionals but find my own carbless products

Daryll Bruno

Last edited by songwritur : Sun, Jan-18-04 at 10:10.
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  #57   ^
Old Sun, Jan-18-04, 11:04
ellemenno's Avatar
ellemenno ellemenno is offline
Lurking LowCarber
Posts: 296
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 203/182/150 Female 5'3"
BF:
Progress: 40%
Location: DFW area, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by songwritur
I too am sick over the people who have taken over Atkins Nutritionals since Dr Atkins death. It's disgusting and a disgrace.

Net Carbs were discussed by Dr. Atkins himself in DANDR and AfL. Net Carbs are nothing new. It actually is helpful to people, allowing them to better understand just which carbohydrates are "good" to eat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by songwritur
First they start this Net Carb crap just to sell more products to stay under Dr Atkins 20 carbs a day theory.

Also, the "20 carbs a day theory" is only for induction. Granted, induction can last as long as one likes, but there is no rule that anyone following the Atkins plan needs to stay to less than 20 carbs a day. That's absolutely insane for some people since they'd be losing weight far too rapidly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by songwritur
I am so disgusted and am thinking about going of this diet or at least following dr atkins original plan and not counting so called NET carbs but whole carbs. and I will never buy anything from atkins nutritionals but find my own carbless products

"Carbless" is not the way to go, as there are many foods with carbs in them that are quite healthy, such as green vegetables. Fiber does not count as a carb since your body can not actually process it the same as other carbs. That's one of the numbers that can be removed to reach the Net Carb total.

I think the main thing here is to follow the LC plan that works best for you, and encourage people to do as much reading and research about LC as possible, and then follow the plan that works best for them. There is a lot of healthy advice contained in many of the plans, even in low-fat plans, that a lot of people will scoff because it doesn't have a certain stamp of approval.

Far too many people jump into the LC WOL without being informed and this is what turns good health plans such as Atkins into crazy fads. People wind up making up their own rules or misconstruing information they've heard from other uninformed individuals.
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  #58   ^
Old Sun, Jan-18-04, 11:16
RCFletcher's Avatar
RCFletcher RCFletcher is offline
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Posts: 5,989
 
Plan: Food Combining
Stats: 220/175/154 Male 5feet5inches
BF:?/27.5%/19.6%
Progress: 68%
Location: Newcastle UK
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Thanks for the article daninmidmo.
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  #59   ^
Old Sun, Jan-18-04, 12:20
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
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Quote:
First they start this Net Carb crap just to sell more products to stay under Dr Atkins 20 carbs a day theory.


The "net carbs" or "effective carb count" has been part of the Atkins plan for quite a while (established by Dr. Atkins). All that means is that fiber (which you can't digest unless you are a ruminant animal) can be subtracted from the total carb count and what's left are the carbs that can actually impact blood sugar and insulin production and should be counted towards your daily total. This can be a good thing in that it allows a person to eat more veggies, nuts and fruits than if they were counting the fiber towards their daily total as well. Where is gets questionable is whether or not sugar alcohols and glycerin behave in the same manner as fiber (which the promotors of the bars that contain them maintain) and can be subtracted the same as fiber. That part becomes a YMMV (your mileage may vary) type of thing since some people seem to be able to eat them without impact and others can't and the only way to know which camp you fall in is to try them and see what happens with your weight loss.
Going off low carb because you don't like what Atkins Nutritionals has done with the plan is a little like cutting off your nose to spite your face, IMO.

Quote:
I have Atkins Essentials every recipe in their sample menus contain 50% of all the grams are fat


50% of the calories may be fat, but are 50% of the calories saturated fat? That's the only part that they are now changing to make it more palatable to doctors and nutritionists; they're not recommending less fat, but less saturated fat (something I don't agree with BTW).

Last edited by Lisa N : Sun, Jan-18-04 at 12:25.
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  #60   ^
Old Sun, Jan-18-04, 12:39
ItsTheWooo's Avatar
ItsTheWooo ItsTheWooo is offline
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Posts: 4,815
 
Plan: My Own
Stats: 280/118/117.5 Female 5ft 5.25 in
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Progress: 100%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellemenno
I could have sworn there was something in DANDR as well as AFL mentioning fats and which were good and fats which were not. There still should be some caution when eating fatty foods, since different fats affect the body in different ways. I believe he even went so far as to say himself that this wasn't all about bacon and beef.

I do believe (or at least am hopeful) one thing this article might do is encourage people to learn more about the foods they're consuming and what these foods do to their bodies.

The intent is in the wording.

You know, if they really were trying to get people to eat a wide variety of fats, I would be happy with this message. People should eat a wide variety of fats and foods. If they presented it like "AT LEAST 45% of your daily calories from mono and unsaturated fat sources", I would have had no problem what so ever with this statement.

However, by saying "NO MORE than 20% of your daily calories from saturated fat", they are clearly cashing in on the prevailing notion that saturated fat is something evil that needs to be limited. What they are saying here is that there should be a tollerable upper level intake limit on saturated fat of 20% calories, since in excess it is deletarious to health. This is, of course, patently false and Dr. Atkins personal practice and weight loss program bare the evidence. Atkins followers lose more weight and improve their heart disease markers to a greater degree than dieters restricting fat and saturated fat. Fact.
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