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  #16   ^
Old Wed, Jun-11-03, 08:38
ravengal's Avatar
ravengal ravengal is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 53
 
Plan: Under 60 carbs per day
Stats: 277/240/170 Female 5'7
BF:
Progress: 35%
Location: N.E. Ohio
Question

Your plan sounds similar to mine, Cherinfo. My plan is loosely based on the Sugar Busters concept. I eat between 30-100 carbs per day, I walk for exercise, my blood sugar is well under control, and I'm losing weight.

Rosebud: Isn't this a low-carb, not Atkins, forum? If my CCL is 100 and I spend some of my carb budget on whole wheat bread, pasta, or potatoes, does that disqualify me from posting here?

Last edited by ravengal : Wed, Jun-11-03 at 10:39.
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  #17   ^
Old Wed, Jun-11-03, 10:17
cherinfo cherinfo is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 10
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 157.5/146/135
BF:31%/?
Progress: 51%
Location: long Island ny
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Rosebud
Hi Cherinfo,

If you are more comfortable eating complex carbs, that's fine for you and I wish you well.

But this is a low carb site, where we only support the low carb way of life, not WW which as LisaN says is low cal, low fat and high carb.
What you are doing is not low carb, so I think you'd be better to find a WW bulletin board.

Rosebud


Hello Rosebud,

I never said i wasn't low carbing . It's choices I was comparing the two. ww's book has lots of foods that are high fat,without sugar. It's a learning experience
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  #18   ^
Old Wed, Jun-11-03, 11:04
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
Default

Quote:
You can honestly tell me you will NEVER eat bread or fruit or cave into a potatoe some time in the FUTHER. All I am doing is tryng to learn how to control my eating habits. Since when is fruit bad? As long as I learn how to eat right by choices and I do mean good choices what's the harm? and why bash it? I did my induction.


Well..first nobody said that fruit was bad as long as it's a low glycemic choice. I eat berries and some melons when they're in season.
Second, I can honestly say that I probably won't ever have potatoes or pasta again; don't even miss them, and when I want bread, I eat low carb bread. Even that's only once or twice a week and the kinds that I eat are 3 or 4 grams of carb per slice depending on the brand. I have to keep my low carb bread in the freezer even with both my DH and I eating it because otherwise it goes moldy on us before we can finish it even in the refrigerator. With so many other great foods I can choose from and stay on plan, I usually don't even feel like eating even the low carb bread and I used to be a bread LOVER; made my own at least twice a week along with home made rolls and biscuits. It's not that I don't like bread anymore, but I don't crave it either because I abstained from even the low carb kind for several months before adding it back in.

The following is a list of foods taken from the Atkins website and they are arranged roughly in the order in which they should be added:

The Power of Five
These portions contain roughly 5 grams of Net Carbs. Food groups are arranged in the general order in which they should be added.


Vegetables
1 cup cooked spinach
2/3 cup red bell peppers
1 medium tomato
1 cup cooked broccoli
12 medium asparagus
1 cup cauliflower
1/2 cup chopped onion
1/2 California avocado
2/3 cup summer squash


Dairy
5 ounces farmer’s cheese or pot cheese
5 ounces mozzarella cheese
3/4 cup cottage cheese
3/4 cup ricotta cheese
3/4 cup heavy cream


Nuts and Seeds
1 ounce of:
macadamias (approximately 10 to 12 nuts)
walnuts (approximately 14 halves)
almonds (approximately 14 nuts)
pecans (approximately 14 halves)
hulled sunflower seeds (3 tablespoons)
roasted shelled peanuts (approximately 26 nuts)
1/2 ounce of cashews (approximately 9 nuts)


Fruits
1/3 cup blueberries (fresh)
3/4 cup raspberries (fresh)
3/4 cup strawberries (fresh)
1/4 cup cantaloupe or honeydew


Juices
1/4 cup lemon juice
1/4 cup lime juice
1/2 cup tomato juice



Most people find it best to add back foods in a certain order—what Dr. Atkins calls The Carbohydrate Ladder. Note that few people will be able to add back all these food groups in OWL. Those on the second half of the list tend to rank higher on the glycemic index and are more commonly introduced in Pre-Maintenance.

Carbohydrate Ladder
As you move from one level to another, add carbohydrate foods back into your diet in the order that follows. Your ability to add all the food groups back depends upon your degree of metabolic resistance. For example, someone with high metabolic resistance would probably not be able to add legumes back during Ongoing Weight Loss (OWL), while someone who is young and works out regularly might well be able to do so. Few people can add back all these foods during OWL. Adhering to this order tends to minimize blood-sugar surges that could reactivate cravings:

more salad and other vegetables on the acceptable foods list
fresh cheeses (as well as more aged cheese)
seeds and nuts
berries
wine and other spirits low in carbs
legumes
fruits other than berries and melons
starchy vegetables
whole grains



This is what OWL or ongoing weight loss is. I don't see potatoes or pasta anywhere on that list (although I suppose you could argue that potatoes are a starchy vegetable) and whole grains (as in whole grain bread) is last on the list of OWL to be added back in with the caveat that few people can add that back in during OWL. It's more likely to be added during pre-maintainance which is when you are within about 5 pounds of your goal weight.
Following a low carb plan isn't just about "doing your time" and losing weight. It's also about getting that carb craving monkey off your back so that you can keep the weight off without having to fight cravings all the time instead of going off the plan and feeding those cravings. I don't know about you, but I'm very happy to be free of food having that sort of power over me.
Going off the plan is one thing and most of us have done it (and regretted it afterwards), but it seems to me that you're really just trying to legitimize it by saying that you're combining WW with Atkins. If you're going to go off plan, the do it, call it for what it is, get it over with and get right back on plan again.
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  #19   ^
Old Wed, Jun-11-03, 13:17
cherinfo cherinfo is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 10
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 157.5/146/135
BF:31%/?
Progress: 51%
Location: long Island ny
Default

Hello Lisa N,

Take it as you like.Say what you want. I'm losing weight ,I'm motivated. I'm excerising. I believe what I believe, You believe what you believe.
Yes, I agree not all people are alike but for those who are not Average who can go up the carb scale and still be losing weight and show ketosis. They need to learn.

This is right out of the Atkins book. ( my pg.228 )

WHAT IF I'M NOT AVERAGE?

IF YOU CAN GO UP TO 50 OR 60 GMS OF CARBS A DAY AND STILL BE LOSING WEIGHT AND SHOWING KETOSIS, THEN YOU HAVE A FAIRLY LOW LEVEL OF METABOLIC RESISTANCE. IN ALL PROBABILITY YOU WEREN'T AT ALL THAT OVERWEIGHT, AND STAYING PERMANENTLY SLIM ON THE ATKINS MAINTENANE DIET IS GOING TO BE A BREEZE FOR YOU. YOU'RE A PERSON WHO'S GOING TO BE ABLE TO EAT TWO SALADS, TWO HELPINGS OF VEGTABLES, AND PERHAPS A FRUIT DAILY AND STILL REMAIN AT A STABLE WEIGHT. IF YOUR CAREFUL, AND YOU FIND YOU DON'T GO INTO A WEIGHT-GAINING SPIRAL, YOU MAY EVEN BE ABLE TO HAVE AN OCCASIONAL POTATO AND SOME WILD RICE.


I believe I'm not average, and there are others just like me, but we must learn how to make the right choices, just like you. (although we may have more) What works for me may not work for you but were still suppose to be in this all together. Just wish luck and ask for updates to see how were doing
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  #20   ^
Old Wed, Jun-11-03, 14:17
Angeline's Avatar
Angeline Angeline is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,423
 
Plan: Atkins (loosely)
Stats: -/-/- Female 60
BF:
Progress: 40%
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Default

You are being kinda hard on Cher. All she wanted to know is if you could apply a kind of point system like WW to low-carb.

Personally I think it would work but only with some major tinkering. Obviously, WW is slanted towards low fat/high carb so following their present guidelines is totally incompatible with low-carb. You would have to figure out how the point system translate in terms of grams of carbohydrates and then set appropriate limits corresponding to 20 grams of carb for induction levels.

Then after this intellectual excercise you would realize its pretty pointless. Because when it boils down to it, Atkins is a point system, just like WW. Except you count grams of carbohydrate instead of points.

So don't wrack your brain trying to translate one method to another. Just write down a big 20 in your diary and then count down, looking up the values (amount of grams of carbs) of what you eat. Except your idea of counting carbs as outlined in your first post would not work because bread, even even whole-wheat, is too expensive carb-wise. A single slice of bread would use up your daily carb allottement, leaving you to eat only proteins for the rest of the day. I don't know about you, but one slab of steak on a plate, is not my idea of a meal.


But I understand your predicament. The idea of going without bread forever is ...well not pleasant to comtemplate. I applaud the people who say they can give up carbs forever. Maybe I am just weaker-willed than they.

The best thing for you is to make careful choices, just as you would for WW. So buy (or make) low-carb bread. Choose low-glycemic fruits like berries. Substitue mashed cauliflower for mashed potatoes.... ect

I bought a book recently called the Low-Carb Comfort Cookbook by Ursula Solom. It's filled with recipes for bread, muffins, pasta, pizza ect...all low carb. You might want to give it a look.
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  #21   ^
Old Wed, Jun-11-03, 14:22
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
Default

Quote:
were still suppose to be in this all together.


We are which is why I'm trying to encourage you to think about how your food choices are affecting not only your weight, but also what they are doing about carb cravings and Dr. Atkins mentions this several times (at least) in his book as well as in the quote from the website that I posted above. If what you are eating is causing you to continue to crave higher carb foods, it's only half a success even if you lose weight eating them, IMHO, because having to struggle with continued cravings only makes keeping the weight off that much more difficult.
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  #22   ^
Old Wed, Jun-11-03, 18:42
pegm pegm is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 615
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 230/197/135
BF:
Progress: 35%
Location: Wisconsin
Default

Unfortunately I loaned my Atkins books to someone so I can't look it up, but it was my understanding that each person needs to find their own critical carb level. I thought that some people have a very high level and can eat quite a lot of carbs without regaining weight and others will never be able to go above 30.

My DH lost 75 pounds doing low carb and improved his cholesterol to the point where he no longer needs meds. He is definitely a carb addict -- loved potatoes and sweets. He is 5'10" and now 145 pounds. He lost weight very rapidly on 50 - 60 carbs per day -- it seemed like he just 'melted'! Now on Maintenance he is up to about 100 carbs per day just to maintain his current weight. If he drops below that, he will start to lose, and he should not lose any more weight. He has added back whole grain breads (Natural Ovens 'Hunger Filler' with 7 carbs), sometimes whole wheat pasta, quite a bit of fruit daily, and occasionally he has a baked potato or brown or wild rice. As long as he sticks with the whole foods and avoids the processed, refined carbs he has no problem maintaining his weight. However, there is not doubt in my mind that if he would start eating sugar and white flour again his weight would balloon.

I, on the other hand, need to stick with 20 carbs per day to lose, and I doubt that I will ever be able to eat even the whole grains or fruits except as a rare, maybe once or twice a year, treat.

So, I guess that my answer would be that the maintenance carb level is very individual and there may be others like my DH who can maintain on 100 carbs per day and some like me who need to keep the level much lower.

Last edited by pegm : Wed, Jun-11-03 at 18:44.
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  #23   ^
Old Wed, Jun-11-03, 18:54
Rosebud's Avatar
Rosebud Rosebud is offline
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23,513
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 235/135/135 Female 5'4
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Default

Quote:
What works for me may not work for you but were still suppose to be in this all together.

Yes, we are here to support each other, but the support is for low carb plans, nothing to do with the points counting to which you refer.

I repeat, this is a low carb support forum. If you wish to count WW points, I would suggest you may be happier on a board such as www.diettalk.com or www.3fatchicks.com

I wish you all the best.

Rosebud
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  #24   ^
Old Thu, Jun-12-03, 05:48
Rosebud's Avatar
Rosebud Rosebud is offline
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23,513
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 235/135/135 Female 5'4
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by ravengal
Rosebud: Isn't this a low-carb, not Atkins, forum? If my CCL is 100 and I spend some of my carb budget on whole wheat bread, pasta, or potatoes, does that disqualify me from posting here?

Hi Ravengal, This is indeed a low carb forum, where anyone following a published low carb plan is very welcome.

The issue with Cherinfo was about Weight Watchers, and Cherinfo's point counting. There is no need to count anything except carbs with most low carb plans, and not even that on plans such as Sugar Busters and CAD.

Cheers.

Rosebud
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  #25   ^
Old Thu, Jun-12-03, 13:58
Raelaine's Avatar
Raelaine Raelaine is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 35
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 280/255/135
BF:
Progress: 17%
Location: Texas
Unhappy Are we having a bad day or what?

So if we are low-carbing but not following a specific "published" plan then we are not welcome here? I have seen tons of people listing "Mod Atkins" or multiple plans in their personal synopsis. Everybody here and in other forums tinkers until they find the right mix that they can live with. Cherinfo is not talking about pigging out or joining Weight Watchers (and so what if she does); she is talking about comparing and contrasting different ideas and finding what works for her. Just becuase we are in the "war-zone" doesn't mean we should be asking people to find another board for expressing an idea that doesn't even run all that contrary to what others are doing.
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  #26   ^
Old Thu, Jun-12-03, 14:05
lkonzelman's Avatar
lkonzelman lkonzelman is offline
The evolution of me
Posts: 9,402
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 273/182/160 Female 5' 4"
BF:
Progress: 81%
Location: Bryn Mawr, PA
Default

Rosebud is just explaining that the support here is for low carb eating.

So lets say the common issue occurs with your "modified plan". You stall (as everyone on ever diet eventually does for periods of time) and you ask for help and support.

The people here are going to ask menus to try to help and the people on this board would offer you advice from the perspective of cutting carbs.

It's not that you aren't welcome, I think the issue here is that the support, advice and issues here are all related to low carb eating.

To be honest if I read your journal and saw what I consider high carb foods everyday in your menu I would avoid it. Not out of being mean or anything, just realizing we are doing different things so I couldn't help you.

Does that make sense?
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  #27   ^
Old Thu, Jun-12-03, 15:25
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
Default

Quote:
Just becuase we are in the "war-zone" doesn't mean we should be asking people to find another board for expressing an idea that doesn't even run all that contrary to what others are doing.


I'd like to point out that Rosebud was not asking Cherinfo to find another board, but rather suggesting a couple of other boards where she might find better support for her hybrid plan. This board is quite honestly for published low carb plans only.


Quote:
I have seen tons of people listing "Mod Atkins" or multiple plans in their personal synopsis. Everybody here and in other forums tinkers until they find the right mix that they can live with.


True enough, but that tinkering is usually more along the lines of more fat/less fat, more protein/less protein, staying at 20 grams of carb after induction, but adding fruit and nuts, leaving out dairy, raising or lowering calories, avoiding all artificial sweeteners, etc... but all the while following the basic principles of their chosen plan. There isn't so much of a problem combining two plans such as Atkins and Protein Power because the two are very similar both in theory and in practice. Same thing with something like Protein Power or Schwarzbein. But trying to combine two plans that are completely opposite in theory like WW and Atkins is something we can't support because most of us belive that low fat/low cal is definitely not the way to go long term.
Nobody is saying that anyone can't lose weight or eat any way they want, but if you want to have support while following something like WW or the like, then perhaps this isn't the forum to be on because it will likely cause division and controversy rather than support and the other two that Rosebud suggested would be more helpful as they support any and all types of diets.
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  #28   ^
Old Fri, Jun-13-03, 14:10
hysteria's Avatar
hysteria hysteria is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,103
 
Plan: General LC
Stats: 232/157.4/145 Female 5'6.5
BF:...getting lower
Progress: 86%
Location: Northern Virginia
Default I do WW

for one reason ONLY - to weight in and show them that low carbing CAN work and it does not have to be all the prepackaged carbage that WW sells. They were even passing around a "Schwanns" booklet the other day. *shudder*
A handful of people, including the leader, know I low carb. She actually agrees w/ low carbing to a certain extent, but still insists on hocking those "Wow" bars When asked "What is your secret", I tell them eating healthy, natural food and not eating all the premade crap, including Lean "Eat Me and You Will Only Want More" Cuisines

Sorry if this sounds crass, but I have to admit for all the years that low fat & calories helped me gain the weight, it is nice to show off what fat and calories can REALLY do!
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  #29   ^
Old Fri, Jun-13-03, 15:22
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
Default

Beth...this is just a suggestion. If you're not actually following the WW plan and just using the meetings for your weekly weigh-in, you might want to take it out of your profile because you're bound to be challenged on it.
It also tends to confuse newcomers who don't know what you're doing when they see two plans in your profile that are nearly opposite in theory.
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  #30   ^
Old Sun, Jun-15-03, 16:34
PaulInTX PaulInTX is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 50
 
Plan: general low carb
Stats: 208/187/180 Male 6' 1"
BF:
Progress: 75%
Location: Plano, Texas
Default

I'm one of the "low carb" do-it-yourself plan-types. I have about 25-30lbs to lose, and my wife is doing WW while I do a low-carb approach.

I have not done "induction", nor wanted to. It, to me, forces a change in too rapid and tough a way to change your eating habits for a lifetime. Rather, I have adopted the WW philosophy and related it to low carb. Meaning, that I have a carb target of between 50-100g/day, and eat accordingly. If I want a high carb food, I have to see if it would make me go > 100. If not, I eat it. I then know that, depending on the grams, what I can eat the rest of the day. It is modified eating behavoir just like WW. They use points, I use carbs as my "points". My approach is much easier than my wifes, because I can ALWAYS eat if I want, so long as I'm avoiding the carb limit I have set. She, on the other hand, is limited in points and feels bad if she goes over, or goes hungry. Neither of those feelings are, IMO, good for a long term way of life change in eating, but that is her choice and her approach (and it is working so far for her, but we are new).

anyway, just thought I'd chime in with a supportive email. Do what works FOR YOU, and combine what you can from those programs that work FOR YOU.

Personally I think that low-carb is the best approach, as it encourages a more long-term viable eating approach without feeling that you are missing *too much*

Good luck.
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