So when you train for a race, the accepted thing to do is to
train hard for a long time, cycling the different types of
workouts. Then you rest, do more speed work and less overall
distance to plateau for your chosen race (and basically slack
off for the two/three weeks prior to the event).

In an effort to keep his sprinters in good cardiovascular
shape but to minimize the amount of distance and intesnsity
they did, my coach would incorporate a lot of breath control
(i.e. rather slow swims with minimal breathing -- say two
breaths every 50 yards).

His theory was that by holding our breath, our heart rate
would go up without having to work harder and thus we'd get a
better aerobic workout while keeping intensity low.

This always seemed like crap to me. Yes, my heartrate would go
up but it seemed "fake" for some reason. I (and my teammates)
often muttered under our breaths that we could get just as
good a workout if we went home and jerked off for thirty
minutes while holding our breaths.

Comments? Could holding your breath put you in better
cardiovascular shape?

(of course -- breathing during swimming races slows you down
and so it's good to practice not breathing. But it would be
better to practice not breathing during race conditions --
speed training -- as opposed to long slow swims, I think.)

You're over reacting to complaints about your excessive
posting. Don't post in this newsgroup again, got it.

"Jose Yimpho" <joe~rainbowsheep.net> wrote in message
news:mDydnXOZiYOpzEujXTWc-w~speakeasy.net...
  > So when you train for a race, the accepted thing to do is to
  > train hard
for
  > a long time, cycling the different types of workouts. Then
  > you rest, do more speed work and less overall distance to
  > plateau for your chosen race (and basically slack off for
  > the two/three weeks prior to the event).
  >
  > In an effort to keep his sprinters in good cardiovascular
  > shape but to minimize the amount of distance and intesnsity
  > they did, my coach would incorporate a lot of breath control
  > (i.e. rather slow swims with minimal breathing -- say two
  > breaths every 50 yards).
  >
  > His theory was that by holding our breath, our heart rate
  > would go up without having to work harder and thus we'd get
  > a better aerobic workout while keeping intensity low.
  >
  > This always seemed like crap to me. Yes, my heartrate would
  > go up but it seemed "fake" for some reason. I (and my
  > teammates) often muttered under our breaths that we could
  > get just as good a workout if we went home and jerked off
  > for thirty minutes while holding our breaths.
  >
  > Comments? Could holding your breath put you in better
  > cardiovascular
shape?
  >
  > (of course -- breathing during swimming races slows you down
  > and so it's good to practice not breathing. But it would be
  > better to practice not breathing during race conditions --
  > speed training -- as opposed to long slow swims, I think.)

Crap -- that should read "So when you train for a swimming
race, ... "

In news:mDydnXOZiYOpzEujXTWc-w~speakeasy.net, Jose Yimpho
<joe~rainbowsheep.net> spewed:
  > So when you train for a race, the accepted thing to do is to
  > train hard for a long time, cycling the different types of
  > workouts. Then you rest, do more speed work and less overall
  > distance to plateau for your chosen race (and basically
  > slack off for the two/three weeks prior to the event).
  >
  > In an effort to keep his sprinters in good cardiovascular
  > shape but to minimize the amount of distance and intesnsity
  > they did, my coach would incorporate a lot of breath control
  > (i.e. rather slow swims with minimal breathing -- say two
  > breaths every 50 yards).
  >
  > His theory was that by holding our breath, our heart rate
  > would go up without having to work harder and thus we'd get
  > a better aerobic workout while keeping intensity low.
  >
  > This always seemed like crap to me. Yes, my heartrate would
  > go up but it seemed "fake" for some reason. I (and my
  > teammates) often muttered under our breaths that we could
  > get just as good a workout if we went home and jerked off
  > for thirty minutes while holding our breaths.
  >
  > Comments? Could holding your breath put you in better
  > cardiovascular shape?
  >
  > (of course -- breathing during swimming races slows you down
  > and so it's good to practice not breathing. But it would be
  > better to practice not breathing during race conditions --
  > speed training -- as opposed to long slow swims, I think.)

In article <mDydnXOZiYOpzEujXTWc-w~speakeasy.net>, "Jose
Yimpho" <joe~rainbowsheep.net> wrote:

  > So when you train for a race, the accepted thing to do is to
  > train hard for a long time, cycling the different types of
  > workouts. Then you rest, do more speed work and less overall
  > distance to plateau for your chosen race (and basically
  > slack off for the two/three weeks prior to the event).
  >
  > In an effort to keep his sprinters in good cardiovascular
  > shape but to minimize the amount of distance and intesnsity
  > they did, my coach would incorporate a lot of breath control
  > (i.e. rather slow swims with minimal breathing -- say two
  > breaths every 50 yards).
  >
  > His theory was that by holding our breath, our heart rate
  > would go up without having to work harder and thus we'd get
  > a better aerobic workout while keeping intensity low.
  >
  > This always seemed like crap to me. Yes, my heartrate would
  > go up but it seemed "fake" for some reason. I (and my
  > teammates) often muttered under our breaths that we could
  > get just as good a workout if we went home and jerked off
  > for thirty minutes while holding our breaths.
  >
  > Comments? Could holding your breath put you in better
  > cardiovascular shape?
  >
  > (of course -- breathing during swimming races slows you down
  > and so it's good to practice not breathing. But it would be
  > better to practice not breathing during race conditions --
  > speed training -- as opposed to long slow swims, I think.)

I've seen this with a lot of coaches. It has always seemed
like bad science to me.

--
Tom Morley | morley~math.gatech.edu | Same roads,
tmorley~bmtc.mindspring.com | Same rights,
http://www.math.gatech.edu/~morley | Same rules.
ICQ: 24798603 AIM: DocTDM |

In news:WI2cnTzNfcBm_UujRTvU3Q~giganews.com, Gary Weider
<sour~fitness8.com> spewed:
  > You're over reacting to complaints about your excessive
  > posting. Don't post in this newsgroup again, got it.
  >

It's about time I got my own personal troll.

Jose Yimpho wrote:
  >
  > So when you train for a race, the accepted thing to do is to
  > train hard for a long time, cycling the different types of
  > workouts. Then you rest, do more speed work and less overall
  > distance to plateau for your chosen race (and basically
  > slack off for the two/three weeks prior to the event).
  >
  > In an effort to keep his sprinters in good cardiovascular
  > shape but to minimize the amount of distance and intesnsity
  > they did, my coach would incorporate a lot of breath control
  > (i.e. rather slow swims with minimal breathing -- say two
  > breaths every 50 yards).
  >
  > His theory was that by holding our breath, our heart rate
  > would go up without having to work harder and thus we'd get
  > a better aerobic workout while keeping intensity low.
  >
  > This always seemed like crap to me. Yes, my heartrate would
  > go up but it seemed "fake" for some reason. I (and my
  > teammates) often muttered under our breaths that we could
  > get just as good a workout if we went home and jerked off
  > for thirty minutes while holding our breaths.
  >
  > Comments? Could holding your breath put you in better
  > cardiovascular shape?

The confusion comes in with the equating of heart rate with
aerobic effect.

What people forget is that heart rate is used as a proxy for
oxygen uptake (b/c it's eaiser to measure heart rate than
oxygen uptake in the rela world), correlating well with it
within a certain range (from rest to lactate threshold more or
less) under certain conditions.

However, heart rate is typically like 10% lower for a given
oxygen uptake during swimming. Water temperature effect as I
recall (i.e. don't swear me to it). From a msucular aerobic
standpoint, it's the muscular work output that's important to
stimulating adaptations.

An increase in heart rate per se is not indicative of
anything, unless it's accompanied by an increase in oxygen
uptake by the muscles you're interested in.

Artificially raising heart rate this way isn't increasing the
work output (and hence oxygen use) by the muscles. So no
muscular adaptation there.

Lyle

"Lyle McDonald" <lylemcd~grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in
message news:3ED68FDE.15BC2876~grandecomIMRETARDED.net...
  > Jose Yimpho wrote:
     > >
     > > So when you train for a race, the accepted thing to do is
     > > to train
hard for
     > > a long time, cycling the different types of workouts.
     > > Then you
rest, do
     > > more speed work and less overall distance to plateau for
     > > your chosen
race
     > > (and basically slack off for the two/three weeks prior
     > > to the
event).
     > >
     > > In an effort to keep his sprinters in good cardiovascular
     > > shape but
to
     > > minimize the amount of distance and intesnsity they did,
     > > my coach
would
     > > incorporate a lot of breath control (i.e. rather slow
     > > swims with
minimal
     > > breathing -- say two breaths every 50 yards).
     > >
     > > His theory was that by holding our breath, our heart rate
     > > would go
up
     > > without having to work harder and thus we'd get a better
     > > aerobic
workout
     > > while keeping intensity low.
     > >
     > > This always seemed like crap to me. Yes, my heartrate
     > > would go up
but it
     > > seemed "fake" for some reason. I (and my teammates) often
     > > muttered
under
     > > our breaths that we could get just as good a workout if we
     > > went home
and
     > > jerked off for thirty minutes while holding our breaths.
     > >
     > > Comments? Could holding your breath put you in better
cardiovascular shape?
  >
  > The confusion comes in with the equating of heart rate
  > with aerobic
effect.
  >
  > What people forget is that heart rate is used as a proxy for
  > oxygen uptake (b/c it's eaiser to measure heart rate than
  > oxygen uptake in
the
  > rela world), correlating well with it within a certain
  > range (from
rest
  > to lactate threshold more or less) under certain conditions.
  >
  > However, heart rate is typically like 10% lower for a given
  > oxygen uptake during swimming. Water temperature effect as I
  > recall (i.e. don't swear me to it). From a msucular aerobic
  > standpoint, it's the muscular work output that's important
  > to stimulating adaptations.
  >
  > An increase in heart rate per se is not indicative of
  > anything, unless it's accompanied by an increase in oxygen
  > uptake by the muscles you're interested in.
  >
  > Artificially raising heart rate this way isn't increasing
  > the work output (and hence oxygen use) by the muscles. So no
  > muscular
adaptation there.
  >
  > Lyle

Forget the heart rate. Could this light hypoxic state have
any beneficial beneficial training whatsoever. Could it
raise lactate production? Why or why not would it have
such a beneficial training effect and what would this
beneficial training effect (if it exists) be?

Curious in ignorance, August Pamplona
--
"No, jew. Your jew opinion doesn't matter no matter what, jew.
Your writings deserve no comprehension, merely scorn, jew. You
are jew." -Lysis on m.f.w.

a.a. # 1811 To email replace
'necatoramericanusancylostomaduodenale' with 'cosmicaug'

In article <3ED68FDE.15BC2876~grandecomIMRETARDED.net>,
lylemcd~grandecomIMRETARDED.net wrote:

  >However, heart rate is typically like 10% lower for a given
  >oxygen uptake during swimming. Water temperature effect as I
  >recall (i.e.

No, it's the horizontal posture plus the weightless
environment.

In
news:6EwBa.24748$Io.2043580~newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net,
August Pamplona
<necatoramericanusancylostomaduodenale~mail.com> spewed:
  > "Lyle McDonald" <lylemcd~grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in
  > message news:3ED68FDE.15BC2876~grandecomIMRETARDED.net...
     >> Jose Yimpho wrote:
       >>>
       >>> So when you train for a race, the accepted thing to do is
       >>> to train hard for a long time, cycling the different types
       >>> of workouts. Then you rest, do more speed work and less
       >>> overall distance to plateau for your chosen race (and
       >>> basically slack off for the two/three weeks prior to the
       >>> event).
       >>>
       >>> In an effort to keep his sprinters in good cardiovascular
       >>> shape but to minimize the amount of distance and
       >>> intesnsity they did, my coach would incorporate a lot of
       >>> breath control (i.e. rather slow swims with minimal
       >>> breathing -- say two breaths every 50 yards).
       >>>
       >>> His theory was that by holding our breath, our heart rate
       >>> would go up without having to work harder and thus we'd
       >>> get a better aerobic workout while keeping intensity low.
       >>>
       >>> This always seemed like crap to me. Yes, my heartrate
       >>> would go up but it seemed "fake" for some reason. I (and
       >>> my teammates) often muttered under our breaths that we
       >>> could get just as good a workout if we went home and
       >>> jerked off for thirty minutes while holding our breaths.
       >>>
       >>> Comments? Could holding your breath put you in better
       >>> cardiovascular shape?
     >>
     >> The confusion comes in with the equating of heart rate with
     >> aerobic effect.
     >>
     >> What people forget is that heart rate is used as a proxy
     >> for oxygen uptake (b/c it's eaiser to measure heart rate
     >> than oxygen uptake in the rela world), correlating well
     >> with it within a certain range (from rest to lactate
     >> threshold more or less) under certain conditions.
     >>
     >> However, heart rate is typically like 10% lower for a given
     >> oxygen uptake during swimming. Water temperature effect as
     >> I recall (i.e. don't swear me to it). From a msucular
     >> aerobic standpoint, it's the muscular work output that's
     >> important to stimulating adaptations.
     >>
     >> An increase in heart rate per se is not indicative of
     >> anything, unless it's accompanied by an increase in oxygen
     >> uptake by the muscles you're interested in.
     >>
     >> Artificially raising heart rate this way isn't increasing
     >> the work output (and hence oxygen use) by the muscles. So
     >> no muscular adaptation there.
     >>
     >> Lyle
  >
  > Forget the heart rate. Could this light hypoxic state
  > have any beneficial beneficial training whatsoever.
  > Could it raise lactate production? Why or why not would
  > it have such a beneficial training effect and what would
  > this beneficial training effect (if it exists) be?
  >
  > Curious in ignorance, August Pamplona

I'm a little hazy on this, but...

Lactic acid is produced when a lack of oxygen occurs and
energy starts being derived from glycogen.. Thus, we get into
the anaerobic energy system.

The only (non sport-specific) benefit I could see from hypoxic
training is increasing your LT threshold with less intensity.

Question: I notice that apparently for each lactate molecule
produced, a hydrogen ion is produced which turns the muscle
acidic which then makes you tired and affects your nervous
system. This makes me feel really nauseous and I throw up
rather easily. Why haven't they made an Anti-Hydrogen-Ion
drink or supplement that cleans my system of this stupid ion?

August Pamplona wrote:
  >
  > "Lyle McDonald" <lylemcd~grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in
  > message news:3ED68FDE.15BC2876~grandecomIMRETARDED.net...
     > > Jose Yimpho wrote:
       > > >
       > > > So when you train for a race, the accepted thing to do
       > > > is to train
  > hard for
       > > > a long time, cycling the different types of workouts.
       > > > Then you
  > rest, do
       > > > more speed work and less overall distance to plateau for
       > > > your chosen
  > race
       > > > (and basically slack off for the two/three weeks prior
       > > > to the
  > event).
       > > >
       > > > In an effort to keep his sprinters in good
       > > > cardiovascular shape but
  > to
       > > > minimize the amount of distance and intesnsity they did,
       > > > my coach
  > would
       > > > incorporate a lot of breath control (i.e. rather slow
       > > > swims with
  > minimal
       > > > breathing -- say two breaths every 50 yards).
       > > >
       > > > His theory was that by holding our breath, our heart
       > > > rate would go
  > up
       > > > without having to work harder and thus we'd get a better
       > > > aerobic
  > workout
       > > > while keeping intensity low.
       > > >
       > > > This always seemed like crap to me. Yes, my heartrate
       > > > would go up
  > but it
       > > > seemed "fake" for some reason. I (and my teammates)
       > > > often muttered
  > under
       > > > our breaths that we could get just as good a workout if
       > > > we went home
  > and
       > > > jerked off for thirty minutes while holding our breaths.
       > > >
       > > > Comments? Could holding your breath put you in better
  > cardiovascular shape?
     > >
     > > The confusion comes in with the equating of heart rate
     > > with aerobic
  > effect.
     > >
     > > What people forget is that heart rate is used as a proxy
     > > for oxygen uptake (b/c it's eaiser to measure heart rate
     > > than oxygen uptake in
  > the
     > > rela world), correlating well with it within a certain
     > > range (from
  > rest
     > > to lactate threshold more or less) under certain
     > > conditions.
     > >
     > > However, heart rate is typically like 10% lower for a
     > > given oxygen uptake during swimming. Water temperature
     > > effect as I recall (i.e. don't swear me to it). From a
     > > msucular aerobic standpoint, it's the muscular work output
     > > that's important to stimulating adaptations.
     > >
     > > An increase in heart rate per se is not indicative of
     > > anything, unless it's accompanied by an increase in oxygen
     > > uptake by the muscles you're interested in.
     > >
     > > Artificially raising heart rate this way isn't increasing
     > > the work output (and hence oxygen use) by the muscles. So
     > > no muscular
  > adaptation there.
     > >
     > > Lyle
  >
  > Forget the heart rate. Could this light hypoxic state
  > have any beneficial beneficial training whatsoever.
  > Could it raise lactate production? Why or why not would
  > it have such a beneficial training effect and what would
  > this beneficial training effect (if it exists) be?

I doubt you could maintain it long enough for it to do
anything.

There is research looking at putting endurance athletes in a
chronic hypoxic state (i.e. put 'em at altitude or even use
special tents to reduce oxygen pressure) and that has an
effect but it takes days to amount to anything. They have them
sleeping in the tents to give you an idea of what's involved
time-wise.

I can't imagine holding your breath for a minute or two is
going to do jack shit.

Lyle

In news:1054251425.445571~athprx02, lysis
<lysis~all.places.gr> spewed:
  > In article <3ED68FDE.15BC2876~grandecomIMRETARDED.net>,
  > lylemcd~grandecomIMRETARDED.net wrote:
  >
     >> However, heart rate is typically like 10% lower for a given
     >> oxygen uptake during swimming. Water temperature effect as
     >> I recall (i.e.
  >
  > No, it's the horizontal posture plus the weightless
  > environment.

True. You don't fight gravity in the pool. Your heart doesn't
have to pump blood downwards and upwards in the body.

In news:hOydnUyxeo72B0ujXTWc-g~speakeasy.net, Jose Yimpho
<joe~rainbowsheep.net> spewed:
  > In news:6EwBa.24748$Io.2043580~newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink-
  > .net, August Pamplona
  > <necatoramericanusancylostomaduodenale~mail.com> spewed:
     >> "Lyle McDonald" <lylemcd~grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in
     >> message news:3ED68FDE.15BC2876~grandecomIMRETARDED.net...
       >>> Jose Yimpho wrote:
       >>>>
       >>>> So when you train for a race, the accepted thing to do is
       >>>> to train hard for a long time, cycling the different
       >>>> types of workouts. Then you rest, do more speed work and
       >>>> less overall distance to plateau for your chosen race
       >>>> (and basically slack off for the two/three weeks prior to
       >>>> the event).
       >>>>
       >>>> In an effort to keep his sprinters in good cardiovascular
       >>>> shape but to minimize the amount of distance and
       >>>> intesnsity they did, my coach would incorporate a lot of
       >>>> breath control (i.e. rather slow swims with minimal
       >>>> breathing -- say two breaths every 50 yards).
       >>>>
       >>>> His theory was that by holding our breath, our heart rate
       >>>> would go up without having to work harder and thus we'd
       >>>> get a better aerobic workout while keeping intensity low.
       >>>>
       >>>> This always seemed like crap to me. Yes, my heartrate
       >>>> would go up but it seemed "fake" for some reason. I (and
       >>>> my teammates) often muttered under our breaths that we
       >>>> could get just as good a workout if we went home and
       >>>> jerked off for thirty minutes while holding our breaths.
       >>>>
       >>>> Comments? Could holding your breath put you in better
       >>>> cardiovascular shape?
       >>>
       >>> The confusion comes in with the equating of heart rate
       >>> with aerobic effect.
       >>>
       >>> What people forget is that heart rate is used as a proxy
       >>> for oxygen uptake (b/c it's eaiser to measure heart rate
       >>> than oxygen uptake in the rela world), correlating well
       >>> with it within a certain range (from rest to lactate
       >>> threshold more or less) under certain conditions.
       >>>
       >>> However, heart rate is typically like 10% lower for a
       >>> given oxygen uptake during swimming. Water temperature
       >>> effect as I recall (i.e. don't swear me to it). From a
       >>> msucular aerobic standpoint, it's the muscular work output
       >>> that's important to stimulating adaptations.
       >>>
       >>> An increase in heart rate per se is not indicative of
       >>> anything, unless it's accompanied by an increase in oxygen
       >>> uptake by the muscles you're interested in.
       >>>
       >>> Artificially raising heart rate this way isn't increasing
       >>> the work output (and hence oxygen use) by the muscles. So
       >>> no muscular adaptation there.
       >>>
       >>> Lyle
     >>
     >> Forget the heart rate. Could this light hypoxic state
     >> have any beneficial beneficial training whatsoever.
     >> Could it raise lactate production? Why or why not would
     >> it have such a beneficial training effect and what
     >> would this beneficial training effect (if it exists)
     >> be?
     >>
     >> Curious in ignorance, August Pamplona
  >
  > I'm a little hazy on this, but...
  >
  > Lactic acid is produced when a lack of oxygen occurs and
  > energy starts being derived from glycogen.. Thus, we get
  > into the anaerobic energy system.
  >
  > The only (non sport-specific) benefit I could see from
  > hypoxic training is increasing your LT threshold with less
  > intensity.
  >
  > Question: I notice that apparently for each lactate
  > molecule produced, a hydrogen ion is produced which turns
  > the muscle acidic which then makes you tired and affects
  > your nervous system. This makes me feel really nauseous and
  > I throw up rather easily. Why haven't they made an
  > Anti-Hydrogen-Ion drink or supplement that cleans my system
  > of this stupid ion?

Maybe this drink is known as water + baking soda? I'm no good
at chemistry.

Jose Yimpho wrote:
  >
  > In news:6EwBa.24748$Io.2043580~newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink-
  > .net, August Pamplona
  > <necatoramericanusancylostomaduodenale~mail.com> spewed:
     > > "Lyle McDonald" <lylemcd~grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in
     > > message news:3ED68FDE.15BC2876~grandecomIMRETARDED.net...
     > >> Jose Yimpho wrote:
     > >>>
     > >>> So when you train for a race, the accepted thing to do
     > >>> is to train hard for a long time, cycling the different
     > >>> types of workouts. Then you rest, do more speed work and
     > >>> less overall distance to plateau for your chosen race
     > >>> (and basically slack off for the two/three weeks prior
     > >>> to the event).
     > >>>
     > >>> In an effort to keep his sprinters in good
     > >>> cardiovascular shape but to minimize the amount of
     > >>> distance and intesnsity they did, my coach would
     > >>> incorporate a lot of breath control (i.e. rather slow
     > >>> swims with minimal breathing -- say two breaths every 50
     > >>> yards).
     > >>>
     > >>> His theory was that by holding our breath, our heart
     > >>> rate would go up without having to work harder and thus
     > >>> we'd get a better aerobic workout while keeping
     > >>> intensity low.
     > >>>
     > >>> This always seemed like crap to me. Yes, my heartrate
     > >>> would go up but it seemed "fake" for some reason. I (and
     > >>> my teammates) often muttered under our breaths that we
     > >>> could get just as good a workout if we went home and
     > >>> jerked off for thirty minutes while holding our breaths.
     > >>>
     > >>> Comments? Could holding your breath put you in better
     > >>> cardiovascular shape?
     > >>
     > >> The confusion comes in with the equating of heart rate
     > >> with aerobic effect.
     > >>
     > >> What people forget is that heart rate is used as a proxy
     > >> for oxygen uptake (b/c it's eaiser to measure heart rate
     > >> than oxygen uptake in the rela world), correlating well
     > >> with it within a certain range (from rest to lactate
     > >> threshold more or less) under certain conditions.
     > >>
     > >> However, heart rate is typically like 10% lower for a
     > >> given oxygen uptake during swimming. Water temperature
     > >> effect as I recall (i.e. don't swear me to it). From a
     > >> msucular aerobic standpoint, it's the muscular work
     > >> output that's important to stimulating adaptations.
     > >>
     > >> An increase in heart rate per se is not indicative of
     > >> anything, unless it's accompanied by an increase in
     > >> oxygen uptake by the muscles you're interested in.
     > >>
     > >> Artificially raising heart rate this way isn't increasing
     > >> the work output (and hence oxygen use) by the muscles. So
     > >> no muscular adaptation there.
     > >>
     > >> Lyle
     > >
     > > Forget the heart rate. Could this light hypoxic state
     > > have any beneficial beneficial training whatsoever.
     > > Could it raise lactate production? Why or why not
     > > would it have such a beneficial training effect and
     > > what would this beneficial training effect (if it
     > > exists) be?
     > >
     > > Curious in ignorance, August Pamplona
  >
  > I'm a little hazy on this, but...
  >
  > Lactic acid is produced when a lack of oxygen occurs and
  > energy starts being derived from glycogen.. Thus, we get
  > into the anaerobic energy system.
  >
  > The only (non sport-specific) benefit I could see from
  > hypoxic training is increasing your LT threshold with less
  > intensity.
  >
  > Question: I notice that apparently for each lactate
  > molecule produced, a hydrogen ion is produced which turns
  > the muscle acidic which then makes you tired and affects
  > your nervous system. This makes me feel really nauseous and
  > I throw up rather easily. Why haven't they made an
  > Anti-Hydrogen-Ion drink or supplement that cleans my system
  > of this stupid ion?

sodium bicarbonate works very well at high doses (I forget
offhand). It also gives most people what they euphemistically
described as gastric upset (translate as: explosive diarrhea).

loading with dibasic sodium phosphate works too. 4 g/day for 4
days or 8 g the day before a competition. Twinlab used to make
a product (forget the name and it had a few other things that
might help) that contained it, dunno if they still do.

Cytomax, a drink used by endurance weenies, contains
polylactates that the manufacturer claims lowers lactic acid
levels but no study I'm aware of has ever demonstrated that
it does jack squat in this regards (cyclists still swear by
the stuff).

Lyle

In news:3ED69B42.23EFFE15~grandecomIMRETARDED.net, Lyle
McDonald <lylemcd~grandecomIMRETARDED.net> spewed:
  > August Pamplona wrote:
     >>
     >> "Lyle McDonald" <lylemcd~grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in
     >> message news:3ED68FDE.15BC2876~grandecomIMRETARDED.net...
       >>> Jose Yimpho wrote:
       >>>>
       >>>> So when you train for a race, the accepted thing to do is
       >>>> to train hard for a long time, cycling the different
       >>>> types of workouts. Then you rest, do more speed work and
       >>>> less overall distance to plateau for your chosen race
       >>>> (and basically slack off for the two/three weeks prior to
       >>>> the event).
       >>>>
       >>>> In an effort to keep his sprinters in good cardiovascular
       >>>> shape but to minimize the amount of distance and
       >>>> intesnsity they did, my coach would incorporate a lot of
       >>>> breath control (i.e. rather slow swims with minimal
       >>>> breathing -- say two breaths every 50 yards).
       >>>>
       >>>> His theory was that by holding our breath, our heart rate
       >>>> would go up without having to work harder and thus we'd
       >>>> get a better aerobic workout while keeping intensity low.
       >>>>
       >>>> This always seemed like crap to me. Yes, my heartrate
       >>>> would go up but it seemed "fake" for some reason. I (and
       >>>> my teammates) often muttered under our breaths that we
       >>>> could get just as good a workout if we went home and
       >>>> jerked off for thirty minutes while holding our breaths.
       >>>>
       >>>> Comments? Could holding your breath put you in better
       >>>> cardiovascular shape?
       >>>
       >>> The confusion comes in with the equating of heart rate
       >>> with aerobic effect.
       >>>
       >>> What people forget is that heart rate is used as a proxy
       >>> for oxygen uptake (b/c it's eaiser to measure heart rate
       >>> than oxygen uptake in the rela world), correlating well
       >>> with it within a certain range (from rest to lactate
       >>> threshold more or less) under certain conditions.
       >>>
       >>> However, heart rate is typically like 10% lower for a
       >>> given oxygen uptake during swimming. Water temperature
       >>> effect as I recall (i.e. don't swear me to it). From a
       >>> msucular aerobic standpoint, it's the muscular work output
       >>> that's important to stimulating adaptations.
       >>>
       >>> An increase in heart rate per se is not indicative of
       >>> anything, unless it's accompanied by an increase in oxygen
       >>> uptake by the muscles you're interested in.
       >>>
       >>> Artificially raising heart rate this way isn't increasing
       >>> the work output (and hence oxygen use) by the muscles. So
       >>> no muscular adaptation there.
       >>>
       >>> Lyle
     >>
     >> Forget the heart rate. Could this light hypoxic state
     >> have any beneficial beneficial training whatsoever.
     >> Could it raise lactate production? Why or why not would
     >> it have such a beneficial training effect and what
     >> would this beneficial training effect (if it exists)
     >> be?
  >
  > I doubt you could maintain it long enough for it to do
  > anything.

Although training at altititude does give you an advantage in
most endurance sports. There's a reason why the Olympic
Training Center is in Denver.

  >
  > There is research looking at putting endurance athletes in a
  > chronic hypoxic state (i.e. put 'em at altitude or even use
  > special tents to reduce oxygen pressure) and that has an
  > effect but it takes days to amount to anything. They have
  > them sleeping in the tents to give you an idea of what's
  > involved time-wise.

I think I read an article in Wired magazine that talked about
Nike sponsoring the "marathoners of the future". They lived in
sealed houses or something with special air.

  >
  > I can't imagine holding your breath for a minute or two is
  > going to do jack shit.

Yeah, same here.

  >
  > Lyle

Jose Yimpho wrote:
  >
  > In news:1054251425.445571~athprx02, lysis
  > <lysis~all.places.gr> spewed:
     > > In article <3ED68FDE.15BC2876~grandecomIMRETARDED.net>,
     > > lylemcd~grandecomIMRETARDED.net wrote:
     > >
     > >> However, heart rate is typically like 10% lower for a
     > >> given oxygen uptake during swimming. Water temperature
     > >> effect as I recall (i.e.
     > >
     > > No, it's the horizontal posture plus the weightless
     > > environment.
  >
  > True. You don't fight gravity in the pool. Your heart
  > doesn't have to pump blood downwards and upwards in
  > the body.

ugh, I learned something from Lysis. I feel dirty.

Lyle out damn spot!