Dr. Atkins was NOT dumb. Maybe a bit confusing, though. It's easy to interpret his message as an all-you-can-eat diet. (And yes, I said "diet".) And often know-it-all experts will tell you to up your fat and your calories. I say "Ptooey" on the self-proclaimed "experts". There are no experts, because the truth is, WE'RE ALL DIFFERENT, FOLKS. Oh, and back to Atkins, he DOES say in one of his last books that "calories DO count". This is a given -- that is, if you want to lose weight. I was following all he up-your-fat-and-calories advice and not losing. When a friend pointed out that "calories DO count' and I counted them, my weight started falling. And, for me, the 10X-your-weight rule doesn't work. WHERE do these rules come from????? There are no rules -- except maybe "Cut Out the White Stuff". Other than that, we're on our own. But Atkins was NOT a dumb man. He's saved my life. For that I'm forever grateful. We just need to read every line in his books carefully, because there do SEEM to be some confusing contradictions. Many of us WANT to think this is an all-you-can-eat diet, but good morning... it's not.

In the book it tells you not to eat excess, just eat until you are satisfied, how is that eat all u want? Some people dont eat because they are hungry. Maybe he meant that for people have some sort of will power. I do not eat anymore than i did before i just DIFFERENT. To each his own i guess

To each his own... exactly. Everybody is different. Atkin's focus, remember, is heart patients... his secondary mission is controlling obesity. Obese people have an entire psychology and relationship with food than the "average" person does. I think you're right, Ramona, that he does say to eat untill you're satisfied. I'm wondering, though, if in an earlier book he might have said "all you can eat", because so many people interpret it that way. I just know for me that his "calories-do-count" statement is what works. It was reckless abandon that got us into this mess... well, that and evil CARBS!

I feel like I am healed from brain-washing, the idea of low-fat, fat-free and low calorie deceptions. I think eating low-carb is so unbelievalbe because it is simple.

Ieatmeat, your attitude is bad so i am going to let you know a few things. When you say Dr.Atkins said he had a patient that ate 6 pieces of chicken at one setting, did you ever think that patient might be 300 lbs? This WOL is about being healthy, not just losing weight (a lot of skinny peple are unhealthy). If you started this diet so you can stuff your face all day and niht then you did it for the wrong reasons. I lost 17 lbs in 21 days on atkins and I had at least 1500 or more calories a day. If you are not losing then you are cleary eating WAY to much fat (which atkins says you miht have to cut back on if you dont lose) or you are messing up some where. Quiting cause you did not see results in 7 days is a cop out...when i first started I felt weak also but after 8 or 9 days I had energy and felt great. This diet is not about sutffing your face till you are bloted, but becoming healthy and eating till you are full. When Atkins says you can aeat as much as you like, I am sure he assumes you have common sense and know not to eat till you throw up. So if you want to be a fat slob and eat a dozen eggs a lb of bacon and hope to lose weght then by all means go for it...but dont get upset when it doesnt happen. This diet takes time, proper diet, common sensne and patience and a little will power. Enjoy your eggo waffles! I might add that any diet will work so long as you give it time, stick to it and use common sense. You miht want to give yourself a month on atkins, not stuff your face like astarvin hostage/slob and use common sense.

*referee whistle*



haljordan...calling someone a fat slob constitutes flaming and is not permitted by the forum rules to which you agreed when you joined.
You may wish to go back and re-read those forum rules here: http://forum.lowcarber.org/register.php?s=&do=showrules

This is the war zone and while debates and anti-low carb stances are permitted here, flaming and insults are not. Please keep your posts polite.

Bogus, I don't think dr. Atkins is dumb in any sense, I meant that to imply that we could eat as much as we wanted as long as it is the right stuff is not the smartest idea to convey to people who already have eating disorders. He really does set that tone in his books. I think he did it to tempt people into trying it. I don't know about anybody else, but when I started the diet I had the distinct impression that I could eat as much meat and other low carb things as I wanted, as long as I stayed under the 20 carb limit.

He is just as much my hero as he is yours, this is the only diet that has ever worked for me.

BTW, what do you mean by "cut out all the white stuff?"

Where does Dr. Atkins say you can eat as much as you want?? Please cite page number. I don't see that anywhere in my book (DANDR). What he says is to eat "liberal" amounts of good meats, fish, eggs, and good fats. "Liberal" means "generous; it doesn't mean "unlimited"! Yes, that's a subjective measure, but he also goes on to say that you shouldn't eat so much that you feel stuffed. And if you carefully follow induction, it won't be long before your appetite decreases. Your definition of what it means to eat "generous amounts" of the right foods will change, and the amounts will decrease.

IMHO, this is the logical fallacy of the straw man, arguing against something that was never actually stated to begin with.

Looks like we're in complete agreement, Nitro.

By "white stuff", I'm referring to sugar and flour... the root of all evil, in my opinion. Before starting on Atkins in 2002, I was depressed, anxious, FAT and have a zillion other symptoms that I never in a million years would have attributed to diet. A few weeks into the program, my depression and anxiety went totally away, I get FAR fewer colds, I have the energy of someone 1/2 my age, I'm thinner... and more! Yep, I'm a fan of Bob Atkins...may he rest in peace.

Have a great weekend.

In the old Atkins book, he mkes references to the amount of meat some people are eating on his diet.....Big huge steaks...chops...all in the same day...

Rose...I think this might be a case for some of seeing what they want to see. Dr. Atkins does state several times that eating low carb is not to be used as a license to gorge yourself on low carb foods. He states to eat when you are hungry (not when you are angry/bored/stressed/depressed, which means that you will need to start thinking about whether you are really hungry or eating for some other reason) and to eat until satisfied, but not stuffed. He also states in his book that ultimately calories DO matter, but for most it's more an issue of eating too little than eating too much. Of course, there will always be folks that fall on either end of the spectrum (eat too much/eat too little), but most don't have an issue with it.
Yes, when some people read "eat liberally" they interpret it as a food free-for-all, but conveniently ignore the other statements Dr. Atkins makes in his book that I mentioned above.
I don't think Dr. Atkins ever intended to give the impression that people could consume an unlimited amount of food on this plan and still lose weight, that's just how some people interpret it.

Lisa:
Since you seem to be Atkins savvy, I'd like your take on why so many amateur experts advise people to up their calories even though Atkins clearly states that calories do matter?

Bogey

Things is....you tend to lose your appetite on this diet anyway.

Usually this advice is given to those that are clearly not eating enough calories to sustain their basal metabolism, let alone any activity and are reporting that their weight loss has stalled. While doing this once in a while isn't going to make much difference (most of us have a low cal day once a while where we just aren't hungry and don't want to eat), doing it for a prolonged period of time in the hopes of speeding up weight loss is utlimately self-defeating.
When the body senses that caloric intake is consistantly below that needed to sustain basal metabolic activity (breathing, cell replication/repair, digestion, heart beating, brain activity, etc...), it begins to lower your metabolism to compensate to protect you and help you survive the famine that it believes has begun and weight loss slows or stops. You would then need to lower caloric intake further to continue weight loss and the process repeats itself. How long it takes for this self-preservation mechanism to kick in varies from person to person, but eventually it does happen if calories are restricted too low for long enough and yes, there comes a point where calories are so low that it overrides this protective mechanism, but do you really want to go there? I've seen many posts from people who were eating too little and had stopped losing only to see weight loss resume again once their caloric intake was increased to a level that could at least support basal metabolism. What level is that? Generally, it's accepted that your basal metabolism is roughly 10x your current weight (check some online websites on calculating basal metabolism if you want to see exactly how this is calculated). Now granted this formula may not apply if you are very overweight, but for the majority of people it applies. What I see a lot of people doing is using the 10x current weight as their max level of calories for the day to keep losing and 10x goal weight as their minimum and that's the range that they shoot to stay within which seems a reasonable approach to me; it's one that I use myself.
OTOH, lots of people don't pay any attention to calories at all and simply eat when hungry and enough to feel satisfied and they do well with that. I'd only recommend taking a closer look at your daily calorie levels if you aren't losing and have ruled out other possible stallers OR if it seems like the poster is consistantly undereating/overeating; otherwise why stress about it?



Exactly. Ketosis is a natural appetite suppressant; sometimes a too-effective one and some people don't eat enough simply because they aren't hungry.

I can personally vouch for everything you've just written, Lisa. On ordinary "diets" (and even on this WOE, if you're not careful), you can get into a vicious cycle of not eating enough--whether to try to speed up the weight loss or just out of confusion about what to eat--and finding that the body has been tricked into thinking that's all there is, so it had better make the most of it! Years ago, I went on WW after gaining about 15 extra pounds--started off counting the points, and then chucked it and just tallied calories. It worked for awhile, and then became an ironical game whereby every day would be another contest to see how little I could eat. Naturally all the weight came back, and more.