I would make a sort of (I say sort of because I don't use flour either) demi-glace {sauce} for a very special meat dish, as a kind of gravy. Say, tenderloin (hey, gives it flavour!). MOST of the time, I just use a jus (roasted meat juices, basically) or a reduction (simmered roasted meat juices with wine or whatever), and don't much care about thickening...and prefer heavy cream or butter for adding texture at the end if I need to.

The BthanB product is quite good! I'm very fond of their mushroom; I use that as a stock or "gravy master" as well; I just don't have enough time and fridge/freezer space to make my own stock regularly...so rely on quality products such as these, too.

I was only providing references/definitions. We all -- of course -- make adjustments as food geeks , cooks and low carbers!

I totally dislike buying/eating veal, I personally regard it as an affectation; the meat has very little flavour and I don't even want to discuss what I think of the process, traditional or not. The outside reference I provided was merely saying, in a roundabout way, that if you make a demi-glace but, say, of beef stock and NOT of veal stock, it's a beef demi-glace, for instance; in short, to specify the protein source product.

Further, I don't even have (wheat) flour in the house. If I do any thickening, I use the pre-wheat (pre cheap subsitute methods) wherever I can...excellent stock base (cartilaginous bits, bones), egg yolks, heavy cream, butter, good ol' reduction...and flavouring with a minimum of S&P and some good mirepoix mix. I reserve the bouquet garni for seasoning, or the point at which I actually use the stock in a dish of some sort, preferably a soup!

Ah, but you are eating the meat - you're just eating it in liquid form! The osmosis that takes place in the stock pot removes all the protein and nutrients from the meat, and puts it into the stock. The same thing happens with the vegetables, which is why they're tossed out as well and new veggies are added when making broth/soup from that stock.

If you taste a carrot or piece of celery after it's been used to make stock, it tastes like, well, nothing. There's no flavor left, just a carrot 'shell'. Same thing with the chicken. After it's given up everything it has to the stock, it's not really a chicken any more - just an empty chicken shell.

Using bones and giblets for stock is fine, but you should try making a stock with a whole chicken (fowl or stewing hen if you can find one) once - it will bring your stock to an entirely new level of taste, and be even more nutritious.

Lisa

Although liver is delicious when fried, roasted or broiled, osmosis takes the bitter bile from the liver and puts it into the stock. Some folks like bitter tastes (I like a little in some foods), but I don't like the aftertaste the boiled liver creates in the liquid. YMMV!

Lisa

Ok, I'm making that poached chicken recipe that someone posted and I got my scum to taste. Drum roll please!

It tastes like.... chicken. Seriously. I didn't detect anything bitter or anything that I wouldn't want to eat. It was good actually, I should probably put it back in the broth. Perhaps one of these chefs who use foams and things would use it for an amuse bouche or something. Chicken foam.

Ok... I did this new thing today. You can both drink and eat your chicken. This makes the BEST cold chicken for salads and adding to recipes and the broth is pretty nice too. I'm actually saving the broth to use to make stronger broth with all the bones and gibblets I've been saving.

Succulent Chinese Chicken

I pulled the skin off the finished chicken and I'm going to broil it to crisp it up. The meat pulled off easily it is moist and wonderful, even the breast. The bones will go back into the broth for Broth V2.0. I'll buy some onion, celery and carrots tomorrow and stick them in too, along with crushed cloves of garlic. The broth won't be a delicate chinese broth any longer, but it should be quite good.

I've seen that poaching technique in a Jeff Smith book, though I never tried it. Reusing the stock and chicken reminds me of Red Cooked Pork - I wonder if it's ever done that way? (poaching the next chicken in stock from the previous one)

I'm going to do it for my next one. I just poached another chicken and couldn't bear to throw out the broth, its so tasty with that ginger in there. But I just made a HUGE vat of broth out of all the bones and stuff I had. So I'm saving it for next chicken I poach. I guess I'll freeze it.

I'm quite thrilled with this method. You get terrific broth, great skin you can peel off and broil later, and really tender, moist meat for dipping sauces or throwing into a salad cold. And of course, more bones for making more broth later.

I make stock this way...no meat goes to waste.

Do you break or cut the intact chicken bones so that the marrow can get into the broth? Or does marrow alter the taste?

Stock is high protein?

The marrow is good. I don't bother breaking or cutting the bones myself. Does anyone know whether it really makes a difference?

NutritionData says it's a pretty even split by calories between fat, protein and carbs:

http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/...-gravies/7214/2

I don't know whether the recipe they're using includes vegetables - I'm guessing that it does because I can't imagine there being that much glycogen in stock.

A lot of the fat from the meat separates when you make stock, but I think some of it stays emulsified. It would stand to reason, since stock is an excellent emulsifier for fatty sauces.