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  #1   ^
Old Thu, Jun-30-16, 08:32
maycan maycan is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 140
 
Plan: LCHF
Stats: 180/169/135 Female 61 in.
BF:
Progress: 24%
Default The results :(

Well, I did the test this morning.

Fasting 117

Ate a bagel (60g of carbs)

1hrs 228
2hrs 172
3hrs 121
4hrs 84

I am afraid.
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  #2   ^
Old Thu, Jun-30-16, 09:27
Liz53's Avatar
Liz53 Liz53 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,140
 
Plan: Mostly Fung/IDM
Stats: 165/138.4/135 Female 63
BF:???/better/???
Progress: 89%
Location: Washington state
Default

I remember you saying last week that you might try Jenny Ruhl's bagel test, and it looks like you have.

If you have been eating LC for a while, your tolerance for sugar/starch will have diminished. It is recommended you eat >100 grams of carbs at least 3 days before embarking on a glucose tolerance test. I don't know if you factored that in.

Assuming you did the above, and your numbers were that high, then you should be afraid. Afraid enough to keep those numbers in mind when you consider eating off plan. As long as you keep carbs low enough, you will probably not see numbers anywhere near that range. But you've got to keep your carb numbers within your personal carb tolerance and you've got to be consistent. You might want to start testing blood sugars after every meal to determine what keeps them stable, what send them up.

You are very strong to face this head on.

One other note, I see you are on CAD. That may not be the best plan for someone with unstable blood sugars. Have you read Dr Richard Bernstein? He's a type 1 diabetic himself and has a great plan for stabilizing blood sugar.
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  #3   ^
Old Thu, Jun-30-16, 09:42
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
Posts: 13,370
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

Don't be afraid...you are on the best LC forum to help you with any questions about a LC diet and have found your way to the right sub-forum with pages of good diabetes information. You can just start reading back through the threads here, or check out this starter list of of links:

From simple to science:

The Two Big Lies about T2 Diabetes:
The first lie is that Type 2 Diabetes is chronic and progressive or not “reversible”. The second lie is that treatment of blood sugar is the primary target of therapy. The target should be lowering insulin levels and insulin resistance. High blood sugar is a symptom.

The simpliest, only 18 minute TedxTalk explaining insulin resistance, diabetes and obesity is a one by Dr. Sarah Hallberg.
Reversing Type 2 diabetes starts with ignoring the guidelines https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da1vvigy5tQ
It has had over 860,000 views in a year because her explanation is so clear and concise. Also her 15 minute How To Start LCHF is helpful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4D...eature=youtu.be

Her five simple rules are: 1. Eat REAL FOOD 2. Don’t drink your calories 3. Eat only when you are hungry 4. If it says light, low fat or fat-free, it stays in the grocery store. 5. No GPS: No grains, sugar or potatoes.

The diet used in her clinic was based on the low carb plan used by Dr. Eric Westman at Duke Lifestyle Clinic and found in the back of the book by Gary Taubes, Why We Get Fat. It is the diet with the most clinical evidence for optimum weight loss and reversing diabetes, simply called a “No Sugar, No Starch” plan, also a little booklet on Amazon. A video introduction and his studies on reversing T2 diabetes, obesity, fatty liver, PCOS and more at: http://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb. Sign up for the Two Week Challenge on that website and you have the same clinic diet. Watch all the videos of Dr Westman on his member site (first month free)

A website with good but longer lectures on the causes of obesity, “How to Reverse Diabetes Naturally” and reduce Insulin Resistance is Dr Jason Fung's:
http://intensivedietarymanagement.com This talk is an one hour explanation of The Two Biggest Lies about Diabetes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcLoaVNQ3rc

For more details, a website with many resources and links to short videos and articles on a wide range of diabetes and health topics is by a Low Carb RN and Diabetes Educator. https://lowcarbrn.wordpress.com . Also http://www.lowcarbdietitian.com

Highly recommend Dr. Bernstein's book and his YouTube Diabetes University series, but it includes much detailed information for people with diagnosed diabetes and on meds, so use it as "extra credit". There is also a Facebook page called "Reversing Diabetes" that has a good starter "toolkit" but also might be a bit overwhelming to you at this point.

And lastly, the science behind Dietary carbohydrate restriction as the first approach in diabetes management: Critical review and evidence base http://www.nutritionjrnl.com/articl...0332-3/fulltext
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  #4   ^
Old Thu, Jun-30-16, 17:47
maycan maycan is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 140
 
Plan: LCHF
Stats: 180/169/135 Female 61 in.
BF:
Progress: 24%
Default

Thanks for chiming in. All I will be doing tonight is thinking about what the two of you have shared with me. I guess part of me knew it would be this way, but seeing it shook me a bit for sure.

I will be reading all weekend.

If I am able to get the numbers down by testing after my meals and making adjustments, do I need to seek a diabetes diagnosis? My next check up is in the middle of July. What is going to happen when I mention this to my PCP? I guess I am worried about insurance if that diagnosis is there.
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  #5   ^
Old Thu, Jun-30-16, 18:37
MickiSue MickiSue is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 8,006
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 189/148.6/145 Female 5' 5"
BF:36%/28%/25%
Progress: 92%
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Default

Are you currently insured, maycan?

Even if not, one of the things that the ACA did was stop the disgusting habit of insurance companies from penalizing people who are sick for being sick, or for having been sick before they became insured. (Pre-existing conditions and other nasty insurance company practices.)

I agree on the keeping the carbs low on a permanent basis, because that is really the only way proven to help those with T2D, or metabolic syndrome, which is, you probably know, a precursor to T2D.

IF has been shown to be a big help, as well. But IF without consistently low carbs won't really work, as the goal is to get and keep insulin levels low enough, long enough, that the body can calm down the response of IR.

It's good to know where you are, even though it shakes you, isn't it?
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  #6   ^
Old Thu, Jun-30-16, 19:18
maycan maycan is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 140
 
Plan: LCHF
Stats: 180/169/135 Female 61 in.
BF:
Progress: 24%
Default

Hi Micki
I a m insured. I was thinking of the future. What would happen if we decide to switch. I did not consider the recent healthcare changes. Thank you for reminding me.

As scary as it is, yes, it is good to recognize what is happening in my body. I am also glad I took the test after I found my way here to this board.

I am not sure what the next step should be. What if I gain good control of the numbers before my appointment? Will the doctor believe me?
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  #7   ^
Old Thu, Jun-30-16, 19:27
MickiSue MickiSue is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 8,006
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 189/148.6/145 Female 5' 5"
BF:36%/28%/25%
Progress: 92%
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Default

She will if you have good records.

Does your monitor graph your BGs? Show her your graphs.
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  #8   ^
Old Fri, Jul-01-16, 04:09
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
Posts: 13,370
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

Why would you want to seek a diabetes diagnosis? You will find some old threads on this forum about the question of using the word "reversed" or "cured". Some PCPs will never remove that diagnosis from your charts even if you have well controlled BG through diet alone for years at a time. Dr Westman and Hallberg will remove that from current medical conditions to history, but other doctors may not agree.

If you ever have to seek private insurance and cannot accept the ACA plan limitations, diagnosis and drugs you take do effect the premiums you pay. My DH premium was double the base tier because he took one drug that was really totally unnecessary but it was on his record. Insurers have access to prescription records even if you don't mention a drug or are no longer taking it.

If you don't now have a high FBG on your medical record, it is unlikely the doctor would order a Hba1c. So eat very LC now to the test, particularly LC the 3 days before it, and fast before the blood draw. And even if you do get a highish FBG, the doctor isn't going to diagnosis diabetes on the basis of only that. You should then take more BG readings, an Hba1c, and an OGTT.

I would just tell the doctor that you realize that you are overweight and have recently committed to eliminating all junk food, all sugar, and eating a lower carb, real food diet. Don't mention Atkins or CAD and ask for her help monitoring you on your journey to a healthy weight.
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  #9   ^
Old Fri, Jul-01-16, 07:27
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,036
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
Why would you want to seek a diabetes diagnosis? You will find some old threads on this forum about the question of using the word "reversed" or "cured". Some PCPs will never remove that diagnosis from your charts even if you have well controlled BG through diet alone for years at a time. Dr Westman and Hallberg will remove that from current medical conditions to history, but other doctors may not agree.

If you ever have to seek private insurance and cannot accept the ACA plan limitations, diagnosis and drugs you take do effect the premiums you pay. My DH premium was double the base tier because he took one drug that was really totally unnecessary but it was on his record. Insurers have access to prescription records even if you don't mention a drug or are no longer taking it.

This is an extremely important point that I've had issues with over the years. Every bit of minutiae is on one's medical records nowadays, and the information can be very innocuous such as a suspected but never diagnosed or verified condition, old (ancient) medications, and symptoms that have not been around for years. As we get older, the risk is that our medical records sometimes look like we're on our last breath when much if not all no longer applies. Trying to get doctors to remove it is the real issue, as they are bound by the insurance companies in many cases to maintain a log regardless of whether it's current or accurate. I believe the insurance companies & the ACA mandate this, and they like this practice just fine. It's beneficial for their care metrics to help justify their charges and additional compensation.
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  #10   ^
Old Fri, Jul-01-16, 07:44
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 5,283
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/125/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: Vermont
Default

I did this entirely on my own, no doctor necessary. I figured that since I could buy a meter and strips to tests my blood glucose levels and could control them by changing my diet that there was no reason to get my doctor involved so I didn't. That was about 10 years ago. It's worked out well for me.

Jean
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  #11   ^
Old Fri, Jul-01-16, 07:44
MickiSue MickiSue is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 8,006
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 189/148.6/145 Female 5' 5"
BF:36%/28%/25%
Progress: 92%
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Default

There are ways around it, if the medical practice is willing to implement them across the board.

I go to a rather large multi-specialty clinic, that has offices all over the Twin Cities. Your chart is annotated to include RESOLVED issues and any CURRENT issues.

That way, the old DX is still there, which it should be, it's part of your history. But it's also noted to no longer be an active issue, and the dates when it was active are also noted.

It's important, in the grand scheme of my medical history, to note that I had four C sections. But it's certainly resolved, as in 11 days, it will be 31 years since the last one.
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  #12   ^
Old Fri, Jul-01-16, 14:59
maycan maycan is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 140
 
Plan: LCHF
Stats: 180/169/135 Female 61 in.
BF:
Progress: 24%
Default

You have all been SUPER helpful!
Now, my problem will be convincing DH of everything you have shared with me. I don't know if he will believe that I can manage this with a low carb diet without necessarily needing the doctor to sign off on anything.

Maybe I can show him the actual numbers when I eat a high carb meal and then when I eat a low carb meal. I don't think he understands what blood glucose actually is.
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  #13   ^
Old Fri, Jul-01-16, 18:45
Bonnie OFS Bonnie OFS is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,573
 
Plan: Dr. Bernstein
Stats: 188/150/135 Female 5 ft 4 inches
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: NE WA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cotonpal
I did this entirely on my own, no doctor necessary. I figured that since I could buy a meter and strips to tests my blood glucose levels and could control them by changing my diet that there was no reason to get my doctor involved so I didn't. That was about 10 years ago. It's worked out well for me.

Jean


I wish I had done it that way. Tho with my life insurance, once I got off the meds it was almost as if I'd never had diabetes, as far as they were concerned.

Being a diagnosed diabetic means saying "no" to doctors. They will assume that I need medications for the diabetes and cholesterol, since diabetics are more prone to heart problems. Because of the health insurance I have, I have to buy my own test strips, but they will pay for any medication - which I no longer need.
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  #14   ^
Old Fri, Jul-01-16, 18:56
Aradasky's Avatar
Aradasky Aradasky is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,116
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 199/000/000 Female 5"3'
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Southern California
Default

Five years ago, I had type 2, A1c was 7 or higher. Was going to have to start meds. Started Very Low carb- moderate protein and in two weeks I was in control. As long as I stay at 30 to 50 carbs a day (usually lower) my A1c is in the low 5s. Doc still orders the A1c but said he will not chart that I have diabetes as long as I eat this way.

The results you get if you go very low carb will convince your husband. Good idea, chart your numbers for a week, several days with carbs and several days with very low to zero carbs. Show that to your husband.

And if your doc says anything about the way you are eating, other than praises because you have your insulin sensitivity under control then come back to us and we will provide information to support you and your choice.
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  #15   ^
Old Sat, Jul-02-16, 14:54
katmeyster's Avatar
katmeyster katmeyster is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 918
 
Plan: Keto (LCHFMP) + IF
Stats: 265/188/150 Female 61 inches
BF:Highest weight 290
Progress: 67%
Location: Las Cruces, New Mexico
Default

I'm pretty sure my husband's endocrinologist will never tell him that he is no longer diabetic, because he believes that it is an inevitably progressive disease (his whole career is built around that fact).

It will be interesting to see what happens in the next visit when my husband informs him that he hasn't taken any insulin for several months, and that is BG #'s are actually lower than when he was on insulin. (He also stopped his statin, and that won't go over well either).

I'm pretty sure cognitive dissonance will play a large role during that visit. It's unfortunate that we live in an area without many choices for doctors, as we really need to fire this guy who refuses to learn anything new, or inform his patients that they aren't destined to go blind or lose a limb due to this disease.

(If the ACA gets overturned, a bunch of us will be screwed after being honest with our doctors.)
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