There's so much bad/mixed press about heart disease, cancer, etc. and Atkins. Most of it seems to be because a lot of people eat nothing but meat, eggs, cheese, butter, etc. -- even on this board, I see a lot of people listing their daily menus and there's barely a veggie to be found!

It almost seems like the "bacon/butter" Atkins is a completely different WOE than the high-veggie approach.

The second part of my question might sound offensive, but I hope not -- I'm really just trying to evaluate the plan for myself. Here it is: Is there any real argument that a diet high in red meat and saturated fat is less healthy than one based on fresh, whole foods?

OK, I said it . . . scary! Thanks in advance for help.

[QUOTE=johnself]Is there any real argument that a diet high in red meat and saturated fat is less healthy than one based on fresh, whole foods?[QUOTE]

i'm confused. isnt red meat considered a fresh whole food????

Something you might look at, is how long the person has been on Atkins. People starting out on induction do eat a lot more fats/proteins than people on maintenance. On induction, you are trying to tweak your metabolism. This usually should be for about 2 weeks, some people with a lot to lose may stay on it longer. As far as whether or not red meat and sat. fats is less healthy than whole foods - probably, if that was all you ate your whole life. I don't believe two weeks of steak and butter is a big deal. There is a lot more variety to this way of eating than most other "diets". If you read a lot of posts, you'll hear people say "they've never eaten this many vegetables or this many varieties of vegetables in their life!" So true for me! I can tell you I've been doing low carb for over a year, and my blood pressure is down, I feel great, I've lost quite a bit of weight, even started a real exercise program. Since you really are close to your ideal weight, maybe you could incorporate more "good carbs" into your meals. You may enjoy more of a SBD type of eating. Good luck!

I frequently get questioned by people curious to know if I worry about the amount of saturated fats I take in. I think that for the most part, a majority of people on Atkins would agree with me that it is something of a concern... however, that's why many people eat a lot of eggs and fish and veggies in addition to fattier meats. Also, I try to make sure not to eat too many processed meats, so I now rarely eat bacon and when I want breakfast sausuage, I use ground pork and make the patties myself rather than buy them premade with plenty of nitrates from the store.

Well, I suppose it would be, technically; so you win on semantics.

But there are some very obvious (scientific and common-sense) differences between red meat and vegetables/grains -- meat's links to heart disease, cancer, and various digestive/intestinal/colonic problems being big ones, not to mention the hormones used in raising livestock and processing most meat.

In a way, your post does suggest that some Atkinsers do not take into account the full range of food/health issues when on this program.

Oops, sorry -- the "semantics" post was supposed to be for eve25.

Eve, I'm not trying to give you a hard time, really! It's a hard topic to raise without giving off prickly vibes, which I sincerely don't mean to do. I'm just going crazy reading all the literature, and wanted to get input from actual people on the plan. Thank you for your reply!

<<I'm just going crazy reading all the literature, and wanted to get input from actual people on the plan.>>

Have you read Dr. Atkins New Diet Revolution?

When I think back on the diet I had before this WOE, I can truthfully say this:

1. I eat no more meat than I did before. I certainly eat much better meat than I did before. Read, no sugar sauces, overly processed, etc.
2. I certainly eat more veggies than I ever did before. Especially in the form of salads. One a day on average now, at least, if not two.
3. Snacks? What are those? Okay, seriously. My snacking is all but unheard of now. When I do snack, it's low carb ice cream now and then. Or cream cheese and celery. Not the nightly Snickers or Kit Kat bar.
4. I rarely eat out now. This from someone who ate out, or had pizza delivered, on average, 3 times a week. McDonalds, Wendys, Taco Bell? Haven't been there in months when it was a weekly thing.

This is why it's amusing to me when I hear people talk about how unhealthy this WOE is when I compare it to how I used to eat.

I rarely thought about what food I put in my mouth beyond "Does it taste good" to thinking exceptionally carefully about what I put in my mouth about -everything- now. High fat, red meat, or no.

Hi Changeup -- thanks for your message. I totally agree: it's all in how the plan is implemented. I too have heard many people say they've upped their veggie intake as a result of Atkins. This seems like the healthiest way; it definitely undercuts the bad press claiming that Atkins will kill you with butter and bacon grease.

The media is so divided -- both sides can be so absolutist, without considering that people really do eat different things, depending on their own tastes and health concerns.

I can't comment on the whole bacon and butter thing other than saying I have been around the board long enough to say I have definately seen many people eating that stuff and losing great. From a veggie perspective though I can say atkins has made such a positive impact in my life. My typical day before atkins would have been:
breakfast: a couple glassses of apple or orange juice, a banana, a bagel with cream cheese
snack: a banana muffin with honey or a sugary sweet yogurt
lunch: grilled cheese sandwich, baby carrots, juice (a couple glasses), maybe another banana or chips
snack: another muffin, yogurt, baby carrots, bowl of raisin bran
dinner: a HUGE plate of pasta with tomato sauce and a hunk of french bread with margarine, juice
after dinner: beer(too many) and chips and maybe ice cream if I was hungry really late.

I can say I eat soooooooooo many more veggies with atkins than I ever did before and they aren't just carrots. I eat loads of fruit but bananas are the last fruit I would grab for. Prior to atkins I was lucky to get 10 to 20 grams of protein a day. I was going through a gallon of juice every other day. So I am happy to be eating butter, cheese and whole foods as laid out in the atkins plan.

You'll be hard pressed to find many articles that mention vegetables in the same breath at Atkins or Low Carb. The media thinks all we eat is meat, meat, cheese, cheese, bacon and bacon. That is so far from the truth, it's not even funny. I'll bet a poll on this board would show at least 85% of the people here eat more veggies than they ever did before in their lives.

I eat more veggies now then I ever did before, that would be an interesting poll.....

People who don't eat vegetables aren't really doing Atkins though. Not the WOE that's found in DANDR, anyway. In the book, it's clear that veggies aren't optional and that a person shouldn't be eating huge slabs of bacon for every meal (though having a few slices for breakfast isn't a problem). Plus, once the carbs go up (as the stages of the WOE progress), the fat comes down. So someone who constantly eats bacon and butter without some leaner meats, broccoli or salad thrown in isn't following the plan and any health problems that develop as a result aren't typical of this WOE.

Changeup, you really hit the nail on the head. People really dont realize how much healthier this WOE is, for the majority of people. I never ate veggies like I do now, and I dont nearly eat out like I used to. And sweets, ha, I was a sugar Junkie and my addiction was a bad one, every night, without fail, I ate sweets. Oh and then there were those, sweet and salty, back and forth nights, probably a couple of thousand calories in a sitting. And I KNOW Im not alone. My weight may not be coming off super fast, and stalls may happen, but I know this WOE is MUCH better for me. Im proud to LC!!!!

Thanks, Solitaire. That's pretty much what I've been able to come up with when I compare the different LC plans and read the studies -- there's the real, text-based Atkins, and then there are the media representations of it (very different, many myths). And of course there are zillions of individuals all putting it into practice in different ways. It's good to know there is room to exercise my own judgment.

First off red meat and fats are whole foods.The experts have believed in the mantra that red meat etc. is bad for you. In the mean-time, we have been filling our gut with carbs. What does this do, it causes our insulin to rise leading to elevated blood pressure and cholesterol. Cholesterol is manufactured by the liver when insulin is above normal. Your liver will greatly reduce cholesterol production when insulin is normalized. I eat all of the fats I want and my cholesterol total is 148, triglycerides are 59 and glucose is 98.

And, as for me, I eat lots of veggies with my meat. I am the only lcer in the family but the whole family eats more veggies now than they ever have. I am the one who loves her cooked greens and I eat plenty of those. I love bell peppers and avacodoes but my list of veggies go way beyond this. I never began this diet without my vegetables.