You don't find much carbs in meat, liver is the the exception. Brains have a slightly sweet taste as do kidneys, but I think they are basically very low in carbs. I am not as sure about sweetbreads, which can be either the pancreas, considered the better kind), or the thymus- in a very young animal.

A note on the pig: This omnivorous animal has notoriously bad dietary preferences/habits- they are fed by the business end of (human) latrines in Asia- ('as happy as a pig in ....') and often, even in the western world,can be infested with parasites, etc. Pigs have organs with poor taste and texture anyway. Not good for food.

I read that sweetbreads don't have any carbs, I think really it is just the liver that does, from what I understand and have read in the past.

I've been following this thread - almost from it's inception - with a great deal of interest.

I think I have been intrigued, offended, educated, confused and enlighted. I have enjoyed almost every minute of it.

I plan to give this a try, and have already moved toward lowering my carb/grain/vege intake.

I have a tangental curiosity question. We've all heard about the people the media took such glee in reporting about who either died or were hospitalized for the "dangerous" lack of carbohydrates in their diets resultant from the "Adkins Fad". I always figured that the poor unfortunates never actually read a book, didn't progress through the phases, and never added back "beneficial" carbs.

After reading this thread, and having the idea of "beneficial" carbs challenged, I am left to wonder.... what actually caused those folks to get sick?

Bear, thank for starting this thread. And thanks to all of the rest of the thread regulars who have made it an interesting daily read.

I never heard of that Carlotta. I did hear plenty that blamed heart attackes though on Atkins

I am going on my 30th straight day veggie free. All together since January I think I have done about 50+ veggie free days. I feel better then ever!

IMO, it was a scare tactic and these people were probably sick pre-Atkins and didn't know it.

I also tend not to trust the media as far as I can throw them. And there are days I wish I could throw them.

I'm on my third day veggie free and feel excellent with the exception of my wisdom tooth - which is not a no-veggie problem and started way before I even started Atkins, let alone no-veggies. My fear of the dentist is responsible for this problem... not my diet

I haven't had to nap a few times during the day like I used to. Zero cravings, even tho I ate doughnuts the day before I started this which would ordinarily give me cravings for days. Oh, and I'm down an inch on my waist and 1.5 on my hips.

Works for me

I have a 1943 copy of the Joy of Cooking and it is full of heavy cream sauces and use of the old fashioned organ meats. Thanks for the reminder Bear.

What made the 'high protein' dieters sick? That's dead simple- lack of adequate fat intake. There is actually no such thing as a 'high protein' diet, Protein does not need to be higher than 20% for health and must never go above 50%. There are, therefore, only high-carb and high-fat diets.

Anyone with tooth problems should act at once to fix the problem. Modern dentistry is essentially painless, a good dentist is a good friend. The state of your health is directly connected with them. Teeth are 'limbs'- independent like, say, fingers- with their own blood supply and nerves. Each one is treated by the body as important- trust me, even a wisdom tooth is a good one, and should be looked after. Dentists as a rule consider wisdom teeth as 'expendable'- and want to pull them out (they frighten people with the term 'impacted' which sounds bad but really only means 'not completely erupted through the gum. The covering gum can be trimmed away to fully expose the tooth in most cases. Some people may have mouths too small for all 32 teeth, and to keep them in line and functioning, some or all of the last molars have to go, unfortunately. I had to insist to my dentist that mine be given restoration for the caries I developed as a carb-consuming teen- so I could keep them. One of them has never erupted and is still completely covered with gum- I like to think of it as a 'spare'. I have a functioning tooth in every other location. I have had no caries in 47 years.

I have had one root canal and gold crown from damage done during an amalgam restoration in my 20's, which was not reparable in gold and the nerve subsequently died. I had one more for a tooth which had a broken tooth next to it which developed an abcess which on X-ray appeared to be related to the subsequently root-canalled tooth- this tooth's crack was not discovered at the time, but once into the other tooth my dentist discovered the nerve was still good- it was the one next to it which had broken and caused the abcess- the crack was so fine as to be totally invisible, but was permeable to bacteria, not cariogenic ones- infective ones. I had the broken tooth removed- (the abcess proved resistant to antibiotics- it finally separated in two) and a titanium post and crown installed (gold, of course). All the trouble was in the molars. Once one tooth goes, the rest tend to follow, bridges and dentures are not a good idea. It is very important to take action to keep your teeth, and get permanent implants to replace any lost ones. I have only trauma to threaten my teeth, caries is not a problem with my diet, even if I don't brush...

hey bear -

do you have any piccies of you? - I don't mean to be rude - and obviously you shouldn't feel obliged in any way - but it would be so great to see what you looked like.

I have studiously avoided cameras since the '60's, therefore very few pix exist of me from any period.

Visit my website.

Just FYI-Actually lifespan is highly correlated to body mass, metabolism and nutrient flow in the body-not whether you are a carnivore or herbivore.

http://www.physics.ohio-state.edu/~.../life-size.html

http://www.sci.sdsu.edu/classes/bio.../HW1answers.htm

http://www.pubquizhelp.34sp.com/animals/lifespan.html

"Actually lifespan is highly correlated to body mass, metabolism and nutrient flow in the body-not whether you are a carnivore or herbivore."

Common error in understanding: body size rules the overall rate of metabolism/longevity- such as between a mouse versus a large rat, etc. NOT between same-sized carnivores vs herbivores... i.e.: The common domestic tabby lives to 24, but a rabbit, which is the exact same size, lives only to ~6 (in captivity- and far shorter in the wild).

Identical comparisons can be made between the longevity of the big cats and similar-sized herbivores- with the same results.

Do I detect a 'grasping for straws', or is it a simply a case of ingrained contrariness, leading to a need to contradict everything not part of one's own belief structures? Seems the case. Not to worry- relax, I have done my homework very thoroughly.

We can discount the last, the pub article. The second shows size/metabolism, which is established. The first is invalid off the line, since it compares a chicken and an elephant, and metabolism as well as body-design differences impinging on metabolism (especially the lungs) in birds are radically different from mammals. Birds are the last surviving dinosaurs.

A) that is not what you stated. You made a broad general statement about carnivores versus herbivores. B) the average life span of:

Cats:
Wild - 12-15 years (African variety)
Domestic - 15-20 years

Rabbits:
Wild - 2-4 years, probably due to being eaten
Domestic - 5-10 years (potential life span, 15 years)



Tiger - 10-15 years.
size-depends on subspecies and sex. Male tigers range from around 220-670 pounds.

Herbivore at the low end of the tiger range:
Topi Antelope-15 years


Herbivore at the high end of the tiger range:
Grevy's zebra-10-25 years





More the second than the first. Yes, I am contrary when I see things stated that are just not true or presented in a misleading manner. Since I know a little bit about some things you talk about and see where you have misstated something, it makes me question other things you say that I don't know anything about. I still don't know what belief systems you think I have or am trying in some way to defend. Since you don't know me, you have no idea what I believe.





Why discount it? It is just a list of lifespans that are easily verified if one wants to go through all the animals listed one at a time. I just thought it would be handy to see them combined in a table format. And yes, I did spot check several of those lifespans listed. I do my homework, too.

You are right. Birds are way different in both form and structure. However, it also compares a dove and a chicken. You need to read the whole thing.

That, and of course, as my cat theory of human evolution has clearly pointed out... cats have no interest in adapting to anybody or anything. They are on the top of both the food chain and evolution of this planet's life forms, and therefore won't (and shouldn't) change anything about their absolute perfection.

And this is "straight from the (my) cats' mouths"!

I think I am wasting valuable communication time attempting to answer irrelevant questions. I am going to stick to the human diet and what I have experienced as true about it, and the short term and long term effects of what we eat.

(In passing, I do not accept the unannotated lifespans listed on any of the website references, my information- differs. It is a salient fact that there are websites galore on the web which will support literally any idea you can conceive of. So what? Why do you have any interest in various diet regimes- if you are only interested in supporting your own ideas and trashing those which do not fit in with it?)

I live in the present day world. I pay little regard for people whose only goal is to try to duplicate their idea of what the (unknowable) diets of extinct, prehistoric people might have been, or in comparing the highly evolved human body of today with various other species of animal.

Not one person who has posted to this thread has had more than a relatively short time on whatever dietary routine they are following.

I have lived on mine far longer than many people will live for their entire lives. I am a walking, living proof of the efficacy of a totally carnivorous diet and its relationship to ideal body condition and health.

I am trying to share this built-on-stone information, but some days it seems like I am trying to walk into the face of a windstorm.

Skeptics and contrarians: Please pay close attention- I said in the beginning that most readers will never accept and adopt a diet by simply using their mind and intelligence. It will seem for years to be somehow 'not right'. This is because your dietary habits and preferences have been socially 'prewired' in your mind, deep down, in childhood, along with all the things we must learn about our culture and the right way to live as a human being in our society. Socialisation overwrites and suppresses instinct at the instinctual level. It is hard to alter, trust me. I am offering living proof that the payoff from a successful attempt to alter it is worth the effort it takes.

If you prove to be a unique person with a high degree of self-control and a strong drive to alter the shape of your body and the state of your health, I can show the path. Neither I nor anyone else can keep you on it, that is something you and only you can do.

In many cases the ultimate diet format I talk about will not be necessary to achieve an acceptable change, but there are vast side-benefits along my path which remain hidden for a very long time before becoming apparent.

I noticed many years ago that I did not seem to be aging much, and that my body, as I got older began to look a lot different from everyone else my age that I met, no matter whether they were into fitness or just had a good body size and shape naturally. In all cases I began to pull away, and it slowly dawned on me that virtually all the 'standard changes of age' I had accepted as a natural and normal product of simply getting older were not showing up.

So I felt I had a kind of 'obligation' to let other people know about it, hence the essay on my site, and now- my participation in this thread. My approach is to treat the body as a 'black box'. It is an empirical, not cognitive process: If you input this, you can show the output is that, if you change the input, the output changes also. On this basis, you do not have to find out and define what is inside the 'black box' of your body to be able to discover and follow good nutritional practice any more than you need to know how an internal combustion engine works to drive as well as a race car champion.

Understanding and eliminating diet-connected damage and the aging effects it causes IS important, but whether or not cats live longer than rabbits, is not. The fact that our teeth can last longer than we do if diet is correct has nothing to do with what the origins of our dentition can be shown to be- the fact can be demonstrated.

I hope I am making myself clear, as it is very frustrating to try to deal with a lot of unnecessary stuff. We want to see and appreciate the forest- not look too closely at only a few trees. I want to use my precious online time constructively (I live in deep bushland have a lot of work each day). I tend to react- or, if I ignore some posts I feel are completely irrelevant, the respondents then accuse me of avoiding the issues! I feel some 'issues' are non-issues with respect to the direction taken. I am sorry if this bothers anyone, I am enjoying most of that is going on, immensely.

I agree... and I finally sucked up my fear and went to the dentist today. Of course, it took me waking up with a fever to actually do anything about it. (I know I know... but dentists *really* scare me )

Unfortunately, they have to take out this one wisdom tooth because after it came in, it turned... so now the bottom points of the molar are digging into my cheek every time I speak/eat/breathe/sleep. Dentist filed down the points a bit so it would stop cutting me, put me on antibiotics for a week, and will be pulling out the tooth next tuesday.

But she is impressed with the state of my other three wisdom teeth and agreed with me that I should keep them unless they cause a problem. So seems both my dentist and I agree with you on this one Bear.