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  #16   ^
Old Wed, Sep-13-17, 07:45
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is online now
Posts: 1,775
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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Good posts in attempting to answer the OPs questions. The observation that it would take as much time to reverse insulin resistance as it did to develop it is the one area where I disagree. I'm living proof. Just chant Thud's mantra and stay consistent with your LC eating, maybe avoid the feasts, as you have ultimate control over this and most at weddings and birthdays don't care what you eat. Yes, insulin control is the ultimate objective in all cases where one is trying to achieve health, and note that achieving health goes far beyond BG measurements and weight loss. I've had to slap myself upside the head at times when I've gotten too technical for my own good when attempting further protocols, analyses, and measurements. Can't measure insulin or insulin response easily? Fine, carry on with what you know is keeping you healthy, catcha wave, and enjoy the ride! All the best.
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  #17   ^
Old Wed, Sep-13-17, 09:16
TucsonBill's Avatar
TucsonBill TucsonBill is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 121
 
Plan: 20 carbs or less
Stats: 292/258/170 Male 72 Inches
BF:
Progress: 28%
Location: Tucson, AZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRB5111
Good posts in attempting to answer the OPs questions. The observation that it would take as much time to reverse insulin resistance as it did to develop it is the one area where I disagree.


It took me 30 years to go from ~170 to ~300. I'm hoping it won't take as long to get back
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  #18   ^
Old Wed, Sep-13-17, 09:37
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is online now
Posts: 1,775
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TucsonBill
It took me 30 years to go from ~170 to ~300. I'm hoping it won't take as long to get back

It most assuredly will not! You need to stay consistent and on plan, however, if you want anything good to happen. For those doing this and thinking it's a temporary period and all will go back to normal once a goal is achieved, surprise!!! It doesn't work that way and any achievement is sure to be temporary. All will go back to normal, the new normal that you're currently trying to change.
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  #19   ^
Old Wed, Sep-13-17, 09:56
deirdra's Avatar
deirdra deirdra is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,684
 
Plan: HF/vLC/GF,CF,SF
Stats: 197/136/150 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 130%
Location: Alberta
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I just finished "The Salt Fix" which mentioned that following the government-recommended reduced sodium levels can cause or exacerbate insulin resistance (and increased heart rate & increased sugar cravings, among other things, while having negligible effects on blood pressure). So get your salt! Those on very low carb & ketogenic diets need 1.3-2.67 teaspoons a of salt y.
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  #20   ^
Old Wed, Sep-13-17, 10:18
khrussva's Avatar
khrussva khrussva is online now
Posts: 5,603
 
Plan: My own - < 30 net carbs
Stats: 440/211/210 Male 5' 11"
BF:Energy Unleashed
Progress: 100%
Location: Central Virginia - USA
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Even after all that I have learned about subject the past few years I'm still not sure that know exactly what insulin resistance is. I don't know if it is one thing or a combination of things. However, I do believe that it exists and that I suffered from its effects for years. I also believe that I have made significant headway in resolving - even reversing - my insulin resistance. It didn't happen overnight, though. When I first started testing my BG levels after 9 months of consistent low carb eating I was surprised to see how sensitive I still was to carbs - even just a few carbs. I went a little nuts with the BG tracking for a while - testing 5 to 10 time each day. I wanted to see how different foods affected me. While I was at it, I may have even captured the period where significant progress was made towards regaining my insulin sensitivity.


On the left side of the chart (January 2015) you see my average BG plummeting by about 20 to 25 points over a very short period of time. Coincidentally (or not) I had just started introducing IFs into my regular LC routine. I also eliminated snacking and that was giving me a 12 hour fast period on a daily basis. Anyway - after that BG lowering event I seemed to tolerate carbs much better. When I first started testing my BG in the fall of 2014 I would still get BG rising above 150 following a good, low carb dinner (10 to 15 net carbs). After this event, a 10 or 15 carb dinner often had little effect on my BG (rarely rising over 100 from a low carb meal). In fact, the higher readings seen in later periods on that chart include me testing out higher carb foods and higher carb (but still low carb) meals. I could have a 25 to 30 net carb dinner without having my BG spike much above 100.

So what does this prove? I'm not sure. I do know that I am more insulin sensitive now and I was still quite obese when my insulin sensitivity returned. Staying consistent with low carb is what did that. Is my insulin resistance fully reversed? Am I as insulin sensitive as I was in my youth? If I returned to eating crap-for-food, would my insulin resistance return with a vengeance? I don't know the answer to these questions. I don't want to find out. I like staying on the insulin sensitive side of the fence. To do that I need to stay low carb.

Last edited by khrussva : Wed, Sep-13-17 at 10:26.
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  #21   ^
Old Wed, Sep-13-17, 14:17
TucsonBill's Avatar
TucsonBill TucsonBill is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 121
 
Plan: 20 carbs or less
Stats: 292/258/170 Male 72 Inches
BF:
Progress: 28%
Location: Tucson, AZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRB5111
It most assuredly will not! You need to stay consistent and on plan, however, if you want anything good to happen. For those doing this and thinking it's a temporary period and all will go back to normal once a goal is achieved, surprise!!! It doesn't work that way and any achievement is sure to be temporary. All will go back to normal, the new normal that you're currently trying to change.


Actually, my thinking is that I won't need to stick to only 20 carbs a day for the rest of my life. At 20 carbs per day I am losing over 3 pounds a week or a little over 1% of my total weight per week, (I'm hoping that continues, we'll see...), I expect at some point to be able to eat more carbs and maintain a stable weight. I don't plan on ever going back to the "normal" that made me obese to begin with.
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  #22   ^
Old Wed, Sep-13-17, 17:06
fhutt1 fhutt1 is offline
New Member
Posts: 6
 
Plan: Fung, Rosedale
Stats: 236/176/157 Male 180cm
BF:
Progress:
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Yes, I also have a problem with the waist measurement method of checking for insulin resistance.

I have lost 28Kg (about 62 lbs) to date. My insulin resistance is no better now than it was when I started to lose the weight. My waist to height ratio was 0.62. Now it's 0.52.

I keep coming back to the glucose tolerance test. I might experiment with the toast glucose tolerance test. Unfortunately, I don't think that insulin acts very linearly. Therefore, because the toast test uses 25g of carbohydrate, being 1/3 of the 75g for the full test, it is incorrect to say that glucose should only rise 1/3.

The toast glucose tolerance test can only be used for a comparative test (ie. monitor progress maybe). Maybe do a toast glucose tolerance test every 2 or 3 months, have a blood test for fasting insulin level once a year and calculate for HOMA-IR. When HOMA-IR reaches normal, then maybe do a full glucose tolerance test a final proof of reversal.
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  #23   ^
Old Wed, Sep-13-17, 17:23
fhutt1 fhutt1 is offline
New Member
Posts: 6
 
Plan: Fung, Rosedale
Stats: 236/176/157 Male 180cm
BF:
Progress:
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To some degree I agree with GRB5111. If keeping away from carbs at weddings and birthdays was possible, then maybe reversal of insulin resistance with just diet, in the shorter term (maybe a year) would be possible.

Unfortunately, I think that there are a lot of people like me and are not able to resist the carbs when they are so plentiful at weddings and birthdays. I know, I've tried for about 25 to 30 years without success. It is NOT realistic to believe that I will decide today to resist and be successful.

I think that a better solution is to follow Dr Fung, who says that humans have always had feasts and always had fasts. Therefore, follow feasts with fasts and do intermittent fasts to bring down insulin levels to get the body used to low insulin levels. In this way, insulin sensitivity increases and resistance subsides.

To reverse the traditional definition of diabetes II, ie. prevent glucose rising to high levels is simple. Just go on the LCHF diet. I've done it and fooled the doctor that I am ok. Yes, my glucose is ok as long as I stay on the diet. But the insulin resistance persists until I give the fasting more time (I think).
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