Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Low-Carb Studies & Research / Media Watch > Low-Carb War Zone
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members Calendar Mark Forums Read Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #76   ^
Old Fri, Feb-17-17, 09:34
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 9,234
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/175/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 64%
Location: USA
Default

Actually, I have gotten several people to take niacin for the improved sleep alone. But if it didn't do anything for you, it must not be YOUR magic vitamin So glad it helped your DD3.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #77   ^
Old Fri, Feb-17-17, 12:16
deirdra's Avatar
deirdra deirdra is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,488
 
Plan: HF/vLC/GF,CF,SF
Stats: 197/136/150 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 130%
Location: Alberta
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
Isn't it fascinating how differently we can react to different supplements?
I think the fact that we have cleared all the junk out of our diets helps us to recognize what is going on with our bodies more clearly. And trying one new food or supplement at a time helps to identify what specifically makes us feel better or worse. In the HC days of brain fog, joint pain, fatigue, breathing problems etc., I doubt I'd notice the effect of a single supplement.
Reply With Quote
  #78   ^
Old Fri, Feb-17-17, 16:15
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 9,234
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/175/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 64%
Location: USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deirdra
In the HC days of brain fog, joint pain, fatigue, breathing problems etc., I doubt I'd notice the effect of a single supplement.


I agree. I wonder how well it would work with the typical SAD. The doctors who wrote the book emphasize a Whole Foods diet; not a processed one.
Reply With Quote
  #79   ^
Old Sat, Feb-18-17, 17:49
khrussva's Avatar
khrussva khrussva is offline
Posts: 5,073
 
Plan: My own - < 30 net carbs
Stats: 440/200/210 Male 5' 11"
BF:Energy Unleashed
Progress: 104%
Location: Central Virginia - USA
Default

I added niacin to my daily supplement list today. My goal is geared towards improving my cholesterol, lowering my BP, and possibly improving my skin. The 250mg initial does gave my my first flush ever. I didn't turn red, but I felt a pretty good buzz there for about 30 minutes. My head and scalp in particular had a nice warm glow. To be honest, it was not a bad experience. It was weird, but almost pleasant.

For cholesterol, higher doses are the norm. I may try to work up to 1g per day should I not have any significant issues with niacin. If I do, I'll follow Rob's lead and dial it back to a level that works. So far so good.
Reply With Quote
  #80   ^
Old Sun, Feb-19-17, 07:35
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 9,234
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/175/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 64%
Location: USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by khrussva
The 250mg initial does gave my my first flush ever. I didn't turn red, but I felt a pretty good buzz there for about 30 minutes. My head and scalp in particular had a nice warm glow. To be honest, it was not a bad experience. It was weird, but almost pleasant.


Welcome, Ken!

Sometimes I get the "itchy flush" but it's rarely very bad -- more tingly. And now: a faint tingling that lasts only seconds. Rarely.

My skin does feel wonderful afterwards, too.

I think the flush in niacin freaks many people out. They get a reflexive "this must be bad!" mental reaction, and don't want to explore it any further. Look at all the preparations that promise people won't flush! Which are, ironically, the types which cause liver complications.

The doctors in the book emphasize that the B complex, B3, and Vitamin C should be taken three times a day because these are water-soluble vitamins and the body does not store them. Perhaps this is why the no-flush preparations are not as good: they are not working in the body naturally.

I am in my third week of the therapeutic dosing, and my calm mood is amazing. I've just come off of literally years of incredible stress, which might be why I am responding so well to 3g a day.
Reply With Quote
  #81   ^
Old Sun, Feb-19-17, 10:54
khrussva's Avatar
khrussva khrussva is offline
Posts: 5,073
 
Plan: My own - < 30 net carbs
Stats: 440/200/210 Male 5' 11"
BF:Energy Unleashed
Progress: 104%
Location: Central Virginia - USA
Default

I am doing the B complex and C supplements at the same time, as you are doing. Last night I took a 2nd round and barely noticed any flushing. I had no flushing with my first round today. I think I may be adjusting to this very rapidly.

Of note: I took a long, brisk walk yesterday and felt wonderful afterwards. That was not unusual a while back, but lately I had not been getting that endorphin thing from simply walking. I guess it wasn't really working out hard enough for it. It was nice to feel nice after that walk.

Last night I slept amazingly well. My Garmin fitness tracker measures movement and estimates the time of "deep sleep" during the night. If I get less than 3 hours of deep sleep I normally feel it the next day. I feel well rested when I get 4 to 5 hours of "deep sleep". I rarely get more than that. But last night my Garmin says I got more than 6 hours of deep sleep. It will be interesting to see if this related to the Niacin. If so, I should see a trend of longer sleep develop.

Again - the current plan is to work up to 1g of niacin daily and then hold steady for a while. I read up on it and this seems like it might be beneficial for me. I was metabolically ill for decades. I like the 'cleansing' ideas behind fasting for that reason. Niacin therapy may have similar cleansing benefits and might even work well with fasting. It may be hard to measure, but I feel good. So I will keep working on my N=1 ... ME.
Reply With Quote
  #82   ^
Old Sun, Feb-19-17, 21:31
PaCarolSue PaCarolSue is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 129
 
Plan: My Own Reduced Carb
Stats: 217/201/199 Female 5ft 3 inches
BF:
Progress: 89%
Location: Steeler Country
Default

Interesting thread. I have seen other people use the term "N = 1." What does it mean?
Reply With Quote
  #83   ^
Old Sun, Feb-19-17, 21:42
thud123's Avatar
thud123 thud123 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,817
 
Plan: ~25NC/IF
Stats: 342.2/200.6/000 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 41%
Default

The "N"umber of people in the experiment = 1, and that one is you.

(lurks away...)
Reply With Quote
  #84   ^
Old Mon, Feb-20-17, 06:38
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 9,234
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/175/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 64%
Location: USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaCarolSue
Interesting thread. I have seen other people use the term "N = 1." What does it mean?


Thud is correct. You see it so often because everyone who sticks with the various methods reaches the point where they need to fuss with details for their individual needs. They might bloom under a certain supplement, or need to avoid certain foods.

N=1 is our way of saying "This may not apply to YOU"
Reply With Quote
  #85   ^
Old Mon, Feb-20-17, 08:17
khrussva's Avatar
khrussva khrussva is offline
Posts: 5,073
 
Plan: My own - < 30 net carbs
Stats: 440/200/210 Male 5' 11"
BF:Energy Unleashed
Progress: 104%
Location: Central Virginia - USA
Default

And on the flip side of that, an N=1 experiment is my means of testing to see if something that appears to work for someone else has the same positive effects on me. Diet, health, fitness and nutrition is a complex and personal thing. We each have our own health issues. We have different diets and lifestyles. We have different genes, histories, and environments. Treatments interact. We are all guilty of saying I did X and Y happened. We think we have something figured only to find that the results are not repeatable. Study data is often based on large populations which can mask individual results. Plus there is also a lot of misinformation and bogus 'quick fix" schemes out there. That makes for a lot of skepticism. I think this is a major reason why the medical establishment has downplayed the roll that diet and nutrition plays in making us sick and making us well. If it can't be proven, repeated, and grown in a test tube - then even potentially effective methods are scoffed at. I have made many diet tweaks over the past 3 years. Some things seem to work and some appear to have no effect. The only real way to find out of something is beneficial for you is to try it yourself.

I'd caution to use good judgment and don't try anything foolish. If I see something - some new idea that may address an issue that I appear to have, I read up on it. If it seams reasonable and safe, I may give it a try. Another N=1.
Reply With Quote
  #86   ^
Old Mon, Feb-20-17, 08:29
PaCarolSue PaCarolSue is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 129
 
Plan: My Own Reduced Carb
Stats: 217/201/199 Female 5ft 3 inches
BF:
Progress: 89%
Location: Steeler Country
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by khrussva

I'd caution to use good judgment and don't try anything foolish. If I see something - some new idea that may address an issue that I appear to have, I read up on it. If it seams reasonable and safe, I may give it a try. Another N=1.



Thanks everyone for the explanation. Similar to when we say "one size does NOT fit all."

Khrussva, I always do my own research when something is recommended. I have a lot of medical issues and have to be careful what i take or how I eat. I have shunned many recommendations based on what I learned in research.

I am a heart patient, and my DR put me on Niacin years ago. I think I heard something bad about it so I stopped it on my own. He never commented, and might not have realized I stopped it. After reading this thread, I might start taking it again and see if I experience any of the changes mentioned here. I could use better sleep and blood sugar control.

I remember the flush, and I kinda liked it!
Reply With Quote
  #87   ^
Old Mon, Feb-20-17, 10:37
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 9,234
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/175/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 64%
Location: USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by khrussva
Study data is often based on large populations which can mask individual results.


Well put, and a really important point.

I never cease recommending Death by Food Pyramid. This is a well-reasoned and -researched book which explains how our ancestors developed geographically distinct enzyme patterns to digest their local foods. Just as a human's melanin skin content would vary with the environment; darkening to protect humans from too much sunlight, and lightening to promote the production of vitamin D, so people have variation in the enzymes their bodies can produce for digestion.

The book explained why my months-long experiment with vegetarianism went so badly wrong (gained weight, got weak and sick.) Because I don't have the enzymes to get much protein out of plant sources. It explains why I get along so well with fish and dairy. My aunt researched our gene pool, and on the paternal side we have lots of Northern European characteristics. They were too far north for extensive agriculture, so instead they fished and kept herd animals. I've always been told I "take after" that side of the family.

This also explains how a subset of our current population eats the Standard American Diet without suffering too much in the way of health consequences; they are more adapted to this highly unnatural eating method than the rest of us are.

For everyone on this board or seeking out information on low carb; the SAD is a disaster no amount of calorie cutting or exercise can fix.

Still, while being fat and sick on the SAD is something we all have in common, we also have our different flavors of how we should approach our own diets. I'm very sensitive to Omega 3 fats but get along with low carb fruit eaten with a meal. For someone else, this approach won't yield nearly the benefits I'm getting from it.

I started this thread to share the incredible improvement in my very serious, stress-related, health crisis. It took me years to figure out what was going on: turns out, I'm one of those folks who had to diagnose themselves with the Internet!

So I don't have any qualms about treating myself, either. Turns out I have a rare genetic condition that can't be fixed, only managed; so I'm managing it to the best of my ability.

Modern medicine can't do a thing for me.
Reply With Quote
  #88   ^
Old Mon, Feb-20-17, 13:53
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 9,234
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/175/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 64%
Location: USA
Default

For what it may be worth, I ran across this:

Quote:
User Reviews: Niacin for Depression

Niacin Rating Summary
9.6/10 Average Rating
13 Ratings with 13 User Reviews


Read the personal accounts: quite a few report trouble that has lasted for years, through many different drug-treatment attempts, but are now resolving with niacin.

Some people's significant success with modern anti-depressants have completely overshadowed the subset of patients who struggle with inconsistent results and severe side effects. There was a recent study which claimed Antidepressants No Better Than Placebo?

Quote:
"There seems little reason to prescribe antidepressant medication to any but the most severely depressed patients, unless alternative treatments have failed to provide a benefit," says study researcher Irving Kirsch, PhD, of England's University of Hull.

But in a statement, American Psychiatric Association President-elect Nada Stotland, MD, maintained that studies like those reviewed by Kirsch and colleagues, which compare a single drug to placebo, do not accurately reflect the way doctors prescribe antidepressants.

"We know that many people who are depressed do not respond to the first antidepressant they try," she says. "It can take up to an average of three different antidepressants until we find the one that works for a particular individual. Therefore, testing any single antidepressant on a group of depressed individuals will show that many of them do not improve."


This is from WebMD, aka "Better Living through Chemistry," so admitting this means they get to skip over the people for whom these drugs are not success stories. In my case, I was prescribed gabapentin, known as Neurotonin, for severe lingering nerve pain after an attack of shingles. For about two weeks it also lifted my anxiety; then it stopped working on my mood. And the schedule my doctor gave me to taper off it would have lasted 18 months. (I managed in four, thanks to chelated magnesium.)

Emboldened, I found this:

Quote:
My Personal Experience with Niacin and Depression

Now, I've been on and off Prozac for many years. At the time I watched the movie [Food Matters], I was definitely ON Prozac. I've been given all kinds of psychological drugs, all kinds of psychological labels, and all kinds of therapies. None of it really did much for me. Furthermore, I am an alcoholic and a drug addict. I also have another very serious process addiction (as opposed to a substance addiction). Over the past 12 years, I had not been able to put together even a full year of sobriety. I would have brief, happy times of sobriety and clarity, only to be drawn back down by bouts of deep depression and crippling self-doubt. My struggles seemed insurmountable at times and for whatever reason, I could not sustain the motivation or drive to help myself. I don't think I thought I was worth it.

So, three months ago I was at an all time low. All of my addictions had led me to a truly awful place. I had just seen a new psychiatrist that told me I had yet ANOTHER diagnosis, another label, and needed some new drugs. My relationship with my husband was at the breaking point and I truly hated myself. My husband and I had gone to Costco and while we were there, he suggested that we should pick up some niacin. I said, "Why not? I've got nothing to lose." I started taking 1500 mg of niacin that night. The next day, a Sunday, I was so depressed and hopeless, I was actually looking up ways to kill myself on the Internet. I felt that desperate and low. I didn't see another way out. But I continued taking the niacin.

Monday was a tough day - I was still feeling the after-effects and withdrawals from alcohol and drugs and continued to feel hopeless. By Tuesday, I felt a little better, but that didn't surprise me because whenever I get sober, I always have a small spark of hope that maybe I can do it (which is inevitably crushed again, soon after). I crashed into bed, exhausted by the day and the weight of my depression. I began to think the niacin was not going to help. But before I went to sleep, I was sure to take the 1500 mg.

Wednesday dawned. And I was NEW. It was as if during the night, God had reached down and switched my black, diseased brain for a shiny, healthy one. Suddenly, I had energy. Suddenly, I had hope. I was excited to get to work. I did not linger at home to avoid having to see people or think about my life. I was laughing, smiling and intentionally interacting with people. I actually freaked my secretary out because she had not seem me so animated and happy in ages. She was used to my glum ass attitudes and constant hiding in my office. I was, for all intents and purposes, a new person.


Wow. Just wow. Read the whole thing: she's had a lifelong struggle with all kinds of issues; and she's never had results like this.

Quote:
And the amazing, up-lifted feeling didn't end. It didn't go away. It's been three months now. I feel AMAZING. I am totally sober. I am off of all pharmaceutical drugs. I've lost 12 pounds and a pant size. I am exercising. I am working my recovery program. I am eating very healthy. I am excelling in my work. I am no longer avoiding people, places or things. I am facing life and dealing with it. And I am dealing with it very well - to my own total amazement.


From 2007 - 2011, the blog was about her struggle. In mid-2012, she wrote the above post. There were only four more, highly positive, posts after that. And the blog stopped.

To me, that means that the struggle, at last, had ended.
Reply With Quote
  #89   ^
Old Mon, Feb-20-17, 14:08
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 9,234
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/175/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 64%
Location: USA
Default

Mind you, I didn't take niacin for depression; or even anxiety. I took it for the brain healing. Relief from anxiety was a bonus.

Maintaining a full time job and caring for my chronically ill husband, plus running a small business/blog enterprise, all while getting progressively sicker, took a serious toll on my brain. I actually started using strategies designed for people with traumatic brain injuries because my symptoms were similar.

Reading about how many mental illnesses were helped by niacin got me very niacin-curious. Better sleep, better blood sugar control, better metabolism, better mood handling; if my problems were in my brain, niacin is taking care of all of them.
Reply With Quote
  #90   ^
Old Yesterday, 09:44
PaCarolSue PaCarolSue is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 129
 
Plan: My Own Reduced Carb
Stats: 217/201/199 Female 5ft 3 inches
BF:
Progress: 89%
Location: Steeler Country
Default

I can't wait to start taking Niacin to see if anything changes. When I was taking it, my cardiologist prescribed it and it was probably for triglycerides or cholesterol, or maybe just blood thinning, I don't know. But I didn't notice anything getting worse when I stopped taking it, like mood, sleep or blood sugar. It could have happened, but I didn't connect it with the Niacin.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:29.


Copyright © 2000-2017 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.