Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Low Carb Health & Technical Forums > General Health
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members Calendar Mark Forums Read Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   ^
Old Wed, Feb-15-17, 21:21
Whited Whited is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 265
 
Plan: Very Low Carb
Stats: 312/214/185 Male 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 77%
Location: Missouri
Default Hctz and Diabetes

Hi. Dennis here -- I'm 59 (youngster) and I've been on a low card diet since Nov. 2014. I initially lost about 100 pounds and have since gained some back but not all. I'm still about 70 pounds lighter than I was. I am diabetic but I manage it with a HF/LC diet although I have cheated some lately so my A1C is now up to a 5.5

Anyway I have high blood pressure and it got up to 150s over 100 in the fall for a time then at around mid140s over mid 90s so I went on valsartan (80mg). Doctor pushed it pretty aggressively and said I could get kidney problems even if controling BG. Also both Grandmothers had strokes so something of a history. That dosage didn't seem to do anything and he upped it to 160mg a month ago which also didn't have an effect. Then he put me on the 160mg plus Hctz (a hydrochlorothiazide water pill) I've been on that for a couple of weeks and it did lower BP BUT in looking it up there are some sites that claim that this drug can lead to diabetes and insulin resistance. Some claim it can actually cause diabetes in people that didn't have it before. I assume this is because you lose so much potassium and mess up your electrolytes.

Some sites claim its bad combined with a high fat diet (which of course I'm on) and can increase lipids and raise LDL significantly (by 50%)

So do any of you have any insight or experience with this drug -- kind of a hard decision for me -- go off the drug and risk stroke and kidney disease OR stay on the drug and risk a reversal of my decent health strides with LDL and runaway blood sugars and increased insulin resistance -- great choices.

Do you think I'm overreacting? I left a note for the doctor (It takes a couple months to get an appointment unless its an emergency) and cited a couple of concerns in the note about what I'd read and he had the receptionist call and say "stay on it." end of story.

Any thoughts?

Thanks

Last edited by Whited : Wed, Feb-15-17 at 21:43.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2   ^
Old Thu, Feb-16-17, 04:50
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 8,579
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 220/170/165 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 91%
Location: NC
Default

Hi Dennis,
I don't know anything about this medication and not a doctor, but my question would be ..do you really have high BP that needs treatment with medication? Were those numbers taken one off at a doctor's office, or do you take them at home multiple times and average? Consistent readings of 140/90 to 160/100 is only considered "slightly elevated" and lifestyle changes could lower those without the risk of side effects. Specifically a LC diet without cheating. you know that by eating high carb your BG, insulin, glycogen stores and the water that comes along with the glycogen all rise, contributing to higher BP.

Guide to Blood Pressure: https://www.dietdoctor.com/blood-pressure

(Important...read all of the guide but especially how to take BP correctly! Yesterday my Y was having a wellness day...I sat down for a BP after rushing around from home to car to gym. Nurse took measure immediately...so I said to her you are suppose to wait five minutes, no surprise, my BP was 158/82. Told her to do it again after maybe two minutes sitting there, then it was 138/70. If she would have waited the correct amount of time of 5-10 minutes, it would have been nearer my usual 110/70. KNOW How BP should be taken, don't let a rushed doctor's office create a problem that might not exist.)

Starting LC when on BP meds: https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb...-blood-pressure

New study that aggressive lowering of BP has benefits, but the side effects can increase risks too. https://www.dietdoctor.com/major-ne...increases-risks

Last edited by JEY100 : Thu, Feb-16-17 at 05:08.
Reply With Quote
  #3   ^
Old Thu, Feb-16-17, 08:46
Whited Whited is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 265
 
Plan: Very Low Carb
Stats: 312/214/185 Male 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 77%
Location: Missouri
Default

Thanks for the response Jen -- I do take it at home 3 times daily -- it is elevated. Of course the doctors want it at 120/ 75 for diabetics but I don't think mine will ever get that low. I get a little freaky when it gets up to mid 90s and 100 on the bottom. Still looking at the articles on HTCV -- they do look bad for insulin resistance but we'll see
Reply With Quote
  #4   ^
Old Thu, Feb-16-17, 09:11
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 8,579
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 220/170/165 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 91%
Location: NC
Default

OK, then you have sound BP readings...so next step is stay lower carb than you have been, and then sorry, but give it time.
It took Ken a while to get his BP readings down, about a year? Not sure where he addressed BP but check his Milestone reports on what he did to correct it.
http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=472345

I did find a Numbers Needed to Treat analysis of anti-hypertensive drugs for mild hypertension (your numbers are same range in these studies)
http://www.thennt.com/nnt/anti-hype...d-hypertension/

But if your diabetes and family history concerns you, Keep researching your options, there are different medications that work by different means. If the side effects of this one bothers you, you should ask again for another type. "Stay on it", especially if the dose had to be raised significantly, didn't really address your concerns. Though Hctz has been around for half a century, generic, and is commonly considered safe? There are other classes of diuretics; potassium-sparing and calcium-sparing.

Quote:
At levels of blood pressure which are at least moderately elevated (>160/100), such as those induced by heart disease, medication may be appropriate. Keeping in line with the lifestyle suggestions above is still a good idea, though – they may help ensure that you don’t need to take more medication than necessary for your treatment.

Blood pressure-lowering medication tends to primarily reduce the risk of the having a stroke, heart failure or damage to the kidneys caused by elevated blood pressure.

There are many good options when it comes to such medication. Examples are ACE (angiotensin-converting-enzyme) inhibitors or AII-blockers (angiotensin II receptor blockers) such as Enalapril or Losartan. If this kind of medication doesn’t give the desired effect, you might have to add other medication such as so-called calcium antagonists (e.g. Felodipin) or a mild diuretic (can be found as a combined pill with Enalapril and Losartan).

If possible, avoid using beta blockers to treat blood pressure (this means pills like Atenolol, Metoprolol or Seloken). They are less effective and cause more side effects (such as decreased potency, fatigue and weight gain). These medicines can, however, be of use in cases of heart disease (such as angina).

Last edited by JEY100 : Thu, Feb-16-17 at 12:46.
Reply With Quote
  #5   ^
Old Thu, Feb-16-17, 12:53
Whited Whited is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 265
 
Plan: Very Low Carb
Stats: 312/214/185 Male 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 77%
Location: Missouri
Default

Thanks Janet -- I called you Jen before (sorry). Yeah I think I'm going to give it a good shot natuarally for at least 6 months. Even when I was at my most sussessful with this diet I still had somewhat high blood pressure though. Many of those other drugs just didn't work at all. The only think that seems to work is adding the HTCZ. But like i said some atricles I read (a summary of course) said this drug is not good with a high fat diet and messes with BG. One article was no less than the New England Journal of Medicine

Last edited by Whited : Thu, Feb-16-17 at 13:05.
Reply With Quote
  #6   ^
Old Thu, Feb-16-17, 17:18
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 9,234
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/175/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 64%
Location: USA
Default

These drugs lower your blood pressure; but you haven't addressed the core issue; which can still be running around causing trouble.

Here's a good site that might offer some help:

Lower Blood Pressure Naturally

Proper choices of nutrition and supplements could do wonders if you haven't tried that yet. The fact that the medication is known to create the very conditions you are trying to avoid suggests, at the least, that it is the wrong medication for you.

And don't go off it without medical supervision. You might have to taper, or something... to do otherwise could be dangerous.
Reply With Quote
  #7   ^
Old Fri, Feb-17-17, 08:27
Whited Whited is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 265
 
Plan: Very Low Carb
Stats: 312/214/185 Male 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 77%
Location: Missouri
Default

Hi Thanks for the response -- I already take Vit. D and Co Q 10 and Magnesium as well as eat healty oils. The blood pressure is still high.
Reply With Quote
  #8   ^
Old Fri, Feb-17-17, 08:49
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 9,234
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/175/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 64%
Location: USA
Default

That's great, actually; might be why it's NOT sky high.

Quote:
Nicotinic acid (niacin) is a well-established treatment for dyslipidaemia – an important cardiovascular disease (CVD) risk factor. However, niacin may also reduce blood pressure (BP), which is another important CVD risk factor.


Does nicotinic acid (niacin) lower blood pressure?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:30.


Copyright © 2000-2017 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.