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  #1486   ^
Old Wed, Apr-05-06, 18:45
Whoa182's Avatar
Whoa182 Whoa182 is offline
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Posts: 1,770
 
Plan: CRON / Zone
Stats: 118/110/110 Male 5ft 7"
BF:very low
Progress: 100%
Location: Cardiff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theBear
Maintaining proper muscle mass and a level of at least 5-8% BF is going to grant longer life than a malnourished, underweight, under-muscled frame. I suggest the 'health problems' you obviously have may actually be a mild, sublimated form of anorexia nervosa..


First it is undernutrition without malnutrition. I've always had this frame and I I don't meet all the Criteria for diagnosis of anorexia. This is my diet http://forum.lowcarber.org/showpost...5&postcount=316 - hardly resembles a person with AN. Look at the latest study http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_relea...o-tay040306.php - CR societies oldest member is 103 almost 104 and still active and he only started cr at around 60

Just worry about yourself, you are the one with that glucose problem. Also you better get some phytochemicals found in those nice foods called vegetables, they could help to prevent another occurrence of cancer

Last edited by Whoa182 : Wed, Apr-05-06 at 18:55.
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  #1487   ^
Old Wed, Apr-05-06, 18:52
unitydkn's Avatar
unitydkn unitydkn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,208
 
Plan: no fake foods lo-0 carbs
Stats: 200/160/130 Female 5'2"
BF:goal 25%
Progress: 57%
Location: Wa
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look ..Bear did not desert us..
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  #1488   ^
Old Wed, Apr-05-06, 18:57
Whoa182's Avatar
Whoa182 Whoa182 is offline
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Posts: 1,770
 
Plan: CRON / Zone
Stats: 118/110/110 Male 5ft 7"
BF:very low
Progress: 100%
Location: Cardiff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaleoDeano
Seeing that it's your dog... actually, yes!


Haha, hes getting so old now, will be 19 next year! - if he makes it! Lucky at 17 http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...a182/LUCKY2.jpg
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  #1489   ^
Old Wed, Apr-05-06, 19:20
TwilightZ's Avatar
TwilightZ TwilightZ is offline
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Posts: 359
 
Plan: meat and meat by-products
Stats: 270/191/150 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 66%
Location: TwilightZone (Phila, PA)
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Quote:
Insulin is a dangerous (necessary to deal with excess glucose) and body damaging hormone. I have posted the reference to a paper which shows just how damaging it is. READ IT!

I have read every one of Bear's posts and never saw this reference. If anyone else has seen it, could you either repost it or refer me back to the post in which it originally appeared?
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  #1490   ^
Old Wed, Apr-05-06, 19:21
Rob21370's Avatar
Rob21370 Rob21370 is offline
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Posts: 225
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 336/297/140 Male 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 20%
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoa182
Also you better get some phytochemicals found in those nice foods called vegetables, they could help to prevent another occurrence of cancer


Uh-oh, we're heading into Kevin Trudeau territory again. Next thing you know Whoa will tell us that coral calcium will cure and prevent cancer.

As far as vegetables preventing cancer...tell that to Linda McCartney. Oh. That's right. She's dead from cancer. Maybe if she had been on an all meat diet she might have survived like Bear. Who knows?
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  #1491   ^
Old Wed, Apr-05-06, 19:36
theBear theBear is offline
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Posts: 311
 
Plan: zero-carb
Stats: 140/140/140 Male 5'6"
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The reference, for the second time- in full detail to help out those who are search-impaired, is:

"Atherosclerosis: An Insulin-Dependent Disease? Nestor W. Flodin, PhD, FACN, 'Department of Biochemistry, College of Medicine, University of South Alabama. Mobile'- J Am Col Nutrition 5:417-427 (1986)

I thought Linda McCartney died of karma- for breaking up the Beatles. Her diet was just a sideline to ill health. Notice how much better Paul looks since he abandoned following her diet?

What on Earth is a 'phytochemical'? I HAVE heard the term 'phytotoxin, the chemical defenses ALL plants have, the oldest plant defense, which have been purposely bred out of 'food' vegetables, which is why all salad and other vegetable-sourced foods have significant residual amounts of synthetic poisons (pesticides). Other wise they won't make it to harvest.

Last edited by theBear : Wed, Apr-05-06 at 19:59.
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  #1492   ^
Old Wed, Apr-05-06, 19:51
TwilightZ's Avatar
TwilightZ TwilightZ is offline
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Posts: 359
 
Plan: meat and meat by-products
Stats: 270/191/150 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 66%
Location: TwilightZone (Phila, PA)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theBear
The reference, for the second time- in full detail to help out those who are search-impaired, is:

"Atherosclerosis: An Insulin-Dependent Disease? Nestor W. Florin, PhD, FACN, 'Department of Biochemistry, College of Medicine, University of South Alabama. Mobile'- J Am Col Nutrition 5:417-427 (1986)

The guy's name is Flodin, not Florin...for those who are spelling-, typing-, or visually-impaired.

Here is the abstract:

Abstract 1 of 1[img]file:///D:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Howard%20A.%20Kaplan/My%20Documents/DP-45%20Auctions/JACN%20--%20Selected%20Abstracts_files/back.gif[/img]


Journal of the American College of Nutrition, Vol 5, Issue 5 417-427, Copyright © 1986 by American College of Nutrition

JOURNAL ARTICLE

Atherosclerosis: an insulin-dependent disease?



N. W. Flodin
Evidence is reviewed that dietary habits in industrially developed countries, especially an increased frequency of ingestion of foods of high energy density, may contribute to excessive hepatic cholesterol synthesis and to a preponderance of lipogenic versus lipolytic effects on the arterial intima, thereby favoring the formation and progression of atheroma. These effects are mediated by the rise and fall of circulating insulin levels. The evidence is suggestive of the possibility that frequent and prolonged exposure of the arterial wall to high circulating levels of insulin may favor the development of atherosclerotic lesions. Research on diet-atherosclerosis relationships should take into account not only overall diet composition but individual meal composition and size and their effects on serum insulin levels, as well as meal spacing and the relative durations of absorptive and postabsorptive periods during the 24-hour daily cycle.

Last edited by TwilightZ : Wed, Apr-05-06 at 20:03.
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  #1493   ^
Old Wed, Apr-05-06, 19:53
Whoa182's Avatar
Whoa182 Whoa182 is offline
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Posts: 1,770
 
Plan: CRON / Zone
Stats: 118/110/110 Male 5ft 7"
BF:very low
Progress: 100%
Location: Cardiff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob21370
Uh-oh, we're heading into Kevin Trudeau territory again. Next thing you know Whoa will tell us that coral calcium will cure and prevent cancer.

As far as vegetables preventing cancer...tell that to Linda McCartney. Oh. That's right. She's dead from cancer. Maybe if she had been on an all meat diet she might have survived like Bear. Who knows?


There is real evidence that you can see which shows that Phytochmeicles have protective effects. looks like you are just being ignorant as there are many recent studies showing their positive effects on preventing quite a number of diseases. The Okinawans, longest lived people on the planet... if you want to live long without disease, follow how the okinawan elders eat... Lots of low calorie vegetables and fish Vegetables don't seem to be doing them any harm

Last edited by Whoa182 : Wed, Apr-05-06 at 20:01.
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  #1494   ^
Old Wed, Apr-05-06, 20:11
theBear theBear is offline
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Posts: 311
 
Plan: zero-carb
Stats: 140/140/140 Male 5'6"
BF:
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Correct, I make many typos as I speed-type. I try to catch and correct all of them.

Under- or mal- is just semantics- it means the same thing.

'Real evidence.. that you can see..'?

I have already stated the manifest truth that 'recent studies' and the like, are just not good enough, most such contentions have historically been proven worthless, and these will certainly follow suit- down the well trodden-trail of pseudo-scientific falsehood. It is an recognised epidemic of vast proportions

That said, vegetation is, however the source of most medicine. Medicine is NOT the same as 'food'.
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  #1495   ^
Old Wed, Apr-05-06, 20:13
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
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Quote:
Ok, the attitude of the mum rules the response of her babies to food and everything, with the rare exception of a very strong-willed child.


I think you missed the part of my description where 'mum' was trying to get baby to eat meat and that 'mum' likes meat and thinks it's a good thing. So...please explain to me how my negative attitude towards meat influenced my 6 month old to the point where she refused meat.
Obviously she prefers the taste of veggies over most meats despite the fact that I've tried to influence her tastes towards a wider range of protein sources. Her tastes have nothing to do with acculturation but rather with what she finds tasty and doesn't. Her older sister has been raised on the same foods and she likes a lot more meats than her sister...go figure.

Veggies cause colic...not in my experience. My daughter did have colic alright, but only for the first 3 months of her life when she was being bottle fed exclusively. She outgrew it after that and never had a problem with eating solid foods.
It takes up to 28 months for amylase production to hit full production in babies, but infants as young as 4 months do produce enough to handle some fruits and veggies (those without skins are best). Obviously, these foods are largely supplemental in the first year, not the mainstay of their diets and my experience is that neither of my kids had a problem with it.

Quote:
Okinawans, like all Japanese people eat LOTS of fish and rice, rather than vegetables, they do not differ greatly from other Japanese, except for the ratio of fish availability to population demand makes more fish available to them, cheaper.


Not sure when you've last traveled to Okinawa to observe what they eat, but this site gives a very different account:

Quote:
And what do Okinawans eat? The main meat of the diet is pork, and not the lean cuts only. Okinawan cuisine, according to gerontologist Kazuhiko Taira, "is very healthy—and very, very greasy," in a 1996 article that appeared in Health Magazine.19 And the whole pig is eaten—everything from "tails to nails." Local menus offer boiled pigs feet, entrail soup and shredded ears. Pork is cooked in a mixture of soy sauce, ginger, kelp and small amounts of sugar, then sliced and chopped up for stir fry dishes. Okinawans eat about 100 grams of meat per day—compared to 70 in Japan and just over 20 in China—and at least an equal amount of fish, for a total of about 200 grams per day, compared to 280 grams per person per day of meat and fish in America. Lard—not vegetable oil—is used in cooking.

Okinawans also eat plenty of fibrous root crops such as taro and sweet potatoes. They consume rice and noodles, but not as the main component of the diet. They eat a variety of vegetables such as carrots, white radish, cabbage and greens, both fresh and pickled. Bland tofu is part of the diet, consumed in traditional ways, but on the whole Okinawan cuisine is spicy. Pork dishes are flavored with a mixture of ginger and brown sugar, with chili oil and with "the wicked bite of bitter melon."


It seems to me that their diets are quite varied and if a higher proportion of the population is living to the age of 100 or more than any other, I would think that they are doing quite well consuming their veggies and not being poisoned by them at all. Perhaps they have some gene that prevents them from producing insulin or maybe normal amounts of it aren't as damaging as you believe?

Quite frankly, I don't care if you are anyone else never eats a vegetable for as long as they live; it obviously works for you at least (then again, booze and cigars worked pretty well for George Burns...maybe he was onto something? ), but honestly, you don't need to justify it by claiming them to be poison, either. The experience of millions of people who consume them and live long healthy lives overwhelmingly contradicts that and I hope you don't mind if I lean more towards the diet of the Okinawans (minus the rice and noodles) cuz...well...there's lots more of them living to be 100 than there are of you.
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  #1496   ^
Old Wed, Apr-05-06, 20:15
Rob21370's Avatar
Rob21370 Rob21370 is offline
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Posts: 225
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 336/297/140 Male 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 20%
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theBear
I thought Linda McCartney died of karma- for breaking up the Beatles. Her diet was just a sideline to ill health. Notice how much better Paul looks since he abandoned following her diet?



Heh, I thought Yoko Ono had the distinction of breaking up the Beatles? I've got an interesting disc from 6/4-11/68 where the Beatles are rehearsing Revolution and Yoko talks over the top of it. It's a great glimpse into the head trips she was pulling on John Lennon. She remarks how George is looking at her and that she thinks George really likes her. Meanwhile, George can't stand the sight of her and Bob Dylan was giving George the lowdown on what a scammer she was and that all the artists in NY city hated her.

Not to go to far on a tangent, but I think two things killed the Beatles

1) Lack of development in PAs and live concert sound. They had to stop touring because there was no amplification system that could cut through the din of screaming chicks. Once they stopped touring the comraderie fell apart. Ever hear some of their life stuff from 65 and 66? For the most part it sucks because you can tell they can't hear themselves.

2) Brian Epstien's death. After that there was nobody to tell them "no, you can't do that". Brian Epstein would never have let MMT come out because it sucks so bad.
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  #1497   ^
Old Wed, Apr-05-06, 20:19
theBear theBear is offline
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Posts: 311
 
Plan: zero-carb
Stats: 140/140/140 Male 5'6"
BF:
Progress:
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'Poison' is a relative term.

All vegetation contains some degree of poison, it is the primary method in the vegetable world way of limiting the damage done by herbivores. By this description, all vegetables ARE poison, although the real damage we are concerned with is done by the carbs they contain- to a carnivore's system.

Carbs are your enemy, fat is your friend.
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  #1498   ^
Old Wed, Apr-05-06, 20:21
nraden nraden is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 144
 
Plan: Lights Out
Stats: 255/225/190 Male 72"
BF:all
Progress: 46%
Location: California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob21370
[QUOTE=Bobbij]

Just speaking from my own experiences, but I think Bear takes great pride in seeing things done right and doesn't tolerate a lot of BS. When I say he's a perfectionist I mean that with no negative connotations whatsoever. I mean, he helped create the WALL OF SOUND for christs sake!


You better run right over to Wikipedia and correct it, because your guru isn't there, just Phil Spector.

What's next? He's the only one who knows the lyrics to Louie Louie????

Really, perfectionists who don't tolerate a lot of BS, isn't that a non sequitur? Why impose this personality defect on everyone else? Quit apologizing for his insufferable pedantics.

Yeah, he has good information, but the messenger is the message, alas.

-NR
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  #1499   ^
Old Wed, Apr-05-06, 20:22
theBear theBear is offline
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Posts: 311
 
Plan: zero-carb
Stats: 140/140/140 Male 5'6"
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So far as I have heard, they always said the breakup was due to Paul's insistence that Linda manage the band. Yoko was not the interfering sort- like Linda.

The Wall of Sound is the name some people gave to a super powerful, extremely accurate PA system that I designed and supervised the building of in 1973 for the Grateful Dead. It was a massive wall of speaker arrays set behind the musicians, which they themselves controlled without a front of house mixer. It did not need any delay towers to reach a distance of half a mile from the stage without degradation. It is not to be confused with the trademark overloaded-sound record mixes by that name made by Phil Spector for some Motown groups.

Last edited by theBear : Wed, Apr-05-06 at 20:31.
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  #1500   ^
Old Wed, Apr-05-06, 20:27
Whoa182's Avatar
Whoa182 Whoa182 is offline
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Posts: 1,770
 
Plan: CRON / Zone
Stats: 118/110/110 Male 5ft 7"
BF:very low
Progress: 100%
Location: Cardiff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theBear
'Poison' is a relative term.

All vegetation contains some degree of poison, it is the primary method in the vegetable world way of limiting the damage done by herbivores. By this description, all vegetables ARE poison, although the real damage we are concerned with is done by the carbs they contain- to a carnivore's system.

Carbs are your enemy, fat is your friend.


Can you atleast show 10 references to your claims that vegetables are poison to humans? I can't understand how people believe this stuff so easily, it's quite shocking to see.
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