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  #1   ^
Old Tue, Aug-01-06, 10:22
abbyqueue abbyqueue is offline
New Member
Posts: 16
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 256.5/252/150 Female 5'9"
BF:
Progress: 4%
Location: Cincinnati, OH (N. KY)
Default "Carb Addict's" Diet + Atkins?

Hi. I'm currently on Atkins, and I'm curious about the state of ketosis.

Obviously, the deeper the color on the Ketostix, the more ketones are present in your urine. If one makes the assumption that this indicates that you are burning more fat, one could then assume that being in a "purple" state is better than being in a "beige" state.

Now, I know very little about ketosis, but I did a little experimenting and what generally happens to me is that when I wake in the morning, my Ketostix are darker, presumably because I haven't eaten any carbs for the past 8-10 hours. Then, after I consume carbs, I have tested myself again and found that my Ketostix are lighter, presumably because my body is now burning the carbs I just ate instead of fat. After a while, I test myself again (I know, I know -- I'm going through Ketostix like crazy, but I find them fascinating!), and I'm back to a deeper state, presumably because my body burned all the carbs and has resumed burning fat.

My boyfriend's mother had a book called the "Carbohydrate Addict's Diet" -- I haven't read it, but she said it was about strictly limiting carb intake (and maybe everything else) for most of the day, and then, during one hour (of your choice) of the day, you could eat whatever you want. It was stressed that you had to stop after 60 minutes, though.

My question is regarding a sort of Carb-Addict's + Atkins theory. Is it better to eat all 20g of carbs at around the same time so that your body can process them all at once and get back to burning fat? Or should you "ration" your carbs throughout the day?

The theory is that if I wake up in the morning and am in a deep state of ketosis, then eat 0g of carbs for most of the day (keeping me in that deep state of ketosis), then decide I'm going to splurge and eat an apple in the evening after dinner, which puts me at 20g of carbs for the day. My body burns the carbs before I go to bed (if I tested with Ketostix post-apple it should be lighter). Then I go to sleep, wake up the next morning, and am in the same deep state of ketosis because my body burned off the apple's carbs either before I went to bed or during the night.

If I ration my carbs throughout the day (as I do currently -- I'm one of those people who loves a giant steak, but I crave a little something sweet afterward), this tends to lessen my ketosis throughout the day, and I don't achieve a really deep color on the Ketostix until I wake up from sleeping the next morning. (I am still burning some ketones though.)

I hope this makes sense to someone else... it just seems that lumping all 20g of carbs together would let your body burn them all at once, then get back to burning fat exclusively. That way, you're in a deeper state of ketosis throughout the day and thus, are burning more fat.

What do you think?
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  #2   ^
Old Tue, Aug-01-06, 10:37
Earthgirl's Avatar
Earthgirl Earthgirl is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 492
 
Plan: Low Carb WOE
Stats: 156/135/135 Female 66 inches
BF:28/17%/19%
Progress: 100%
Location: Oklahoma USA
Default

Ketosticks indicate that you are in ketosis. Usually, if it turns dark purple, you are in a state of dehydration, rather than "deep ketosis." Ketosis just means that you are burning fat instead of carbs. ANY change in color is good.

You do not want to become dehydrated, because drinking water helps to flush the ketones out of your body, which is really what you want. It's easy to get excited about dark purple, BUT it has no bearing on how much weight you lose!!!

20 grams of carbs all at once will cause a spike in insulin. Again, that isn't what you are shooting for.

You simply cannot do CAD and Atkins Induction at the same time. The purpose of Induction in the Atkins diet is for 1) Eliminating the insulin roller coaster in the bdy, thereby stopping cravings and 2) Switch the body into ketosis (or, fat-burning mode).

Some of the foods allowed in CAD will interrupt this process. Fruits will for the most part, prevent ketosis from happening. When I do Induction, I usually limit my carbs to below 20, rather than think about how to get all 20.

If you haven't read Atkin's book, you really should. It explains alot (and better than I can).

This way of eating has really changed my life, and set into motion all sorts of good things!

Welcome to low carbing!

Michelle
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  #3   ^
Old Tue, Aug-01-06, 12:48
ardentluma's Avatar
ardentluma ardentluma is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 606
 
Plan: 1972 Atkins
Stats: 234/210/160 Female 5,7"
BF:100 % scary!
Progress: 32%
Location: Fort Myers, FL
Default

Earthgirl is right. The color of your ketostick is not a measure for ketosis. It is even possible to be in ketosis and not change the color of the urinary stick.

All I know is that limiting my carbs in one sitting would make me miserable for the entire day. If I was holding off until dinner, I would be ansty all day and hungry for my carbs. Have my 60 minute binge. And then, I will be craving hard until I can eat them again. I seriously don't recommend that sort of behavior in a hard-core addict like myself. I would not be able to stop. I prefer to get my carbs in with every meal. Besides, you kind of need the carbs that come in your veggies and later on in your fruits and whole, unprocessed grains and dairy products.

Best of luck to you. Finding a plan that works for you is tough. Many people have had success on Carb-Addicts. I just wouldn't recommend the two plans together.
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  #4   ^
Old Tue, Aug-01-06, 14:51
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,147
 
Plan: LC--Atkins
Stats: 195/162/150 Female 62in
BF:
Progress: 73%
Location: Kansas City, MO
Default

Abby, you are w-a-a--ay overthinking this whole deal. You'll drive yourself nuts.

Atkins intended for his plan to be simple and livable. Induction: 20 carbs or fewer. After two weeks, add some more veggies. After a few more weeks, add some nuts or berries. Enjoy eating a variety of healthy fresh meat, fish, green veggies, and eggs. Drink plenty of water, take some vitamins, and go for brisk walk every day. That's it.

It isn't magic. It's a way of changing old junk food habits into healthier eating habits--a method that most people find pleasant because they aren't hungry and deprived all the time.

So...forget about the ketosis thing, and just enjoy the program. If you follow the Atkins book, you'll do fine.

Best wishes.
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  #5   ^
Old Tue, Aug-01-06, 15:05
kaypeeoh kaypeeoh is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,216
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 185/180/165
BF:
Progress: 25%
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The color can be influenced by your hydration level. First thing in the morning, your urine should be more concentrated so the ketones will be more concentrated.

With time, ketones won't be expelled in urine. The body learns to use the ketones for energy and stops wasting them.
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  #6   ^
Old Tue, Aug-01-06, 15:21
Earthgirl's Avatar
Earthgirl Earthgirl is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 492
 
Plan: Low Carb WOE
Stats: 156/135/135 Female 66 inches
BF:28/17%/19%
Progress: 100%
Location: Oklahoma USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody Brilliant
Abby, you are w-a-a--ay overthinking this whole deal. You'll drive yourself nuts.

Atkins intended for his plan to be simple and livable. Induction: 20 carbs or fewer. After two weeks, add some more veggies. After a few more weeks, add some nuts or berries. Enjoy eating a variety of healthy fresh meat, fish, green veggies, and eggs. Drink plenty of water, take some vitamins, and go for brisk walk every day. That's it.
Best wishes.

THis is brilliant! It's the best explanation of Atkins I've ever seen, and I wish someone had said this to me when I was doing Atkins and trying to move into the OWL...

Kudos!
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  #7   ^
Old Tue, Aug-01-06, 22:10
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Newbirth Newbirth is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 2,766
 
Plan: -
Stats: -/-/- Female -
BF:
Progress: 96%
Default

1) ANY color change means you are in ketosis. Seeing purple is not necessarily a good thing and could indicate dehydration.

2) Carb's Addicts diet will keep you out of ketosis because of the cheat meal. It cannot be combined with Atkins for this reason.
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  #8   ^
Old Tue, Aug-01-06, 22:12
Newbirth's Avatar
Newbirth Newbirth is offline
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Posts: 2,766
 
Plan: -
Stats: -/-/- Female -
BF:
Progress: 96%
Cool

Ration the carbs. Besides - you should be getting 10-15g of carbs from veggies and you couldn't eat that much at one meal if you tried.

Last edited by Newbirth : Wed, Aug-02-06 at 17:28.
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  #9   ^
Old Wed, Aug-02-06, 08:40
Jenn123's Avatar
Jenn123 Jenn123 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 374
 
Plan: Reduced Calorie LC w/ IF
Stats: 190/130/115 Female 5'6"
BF:Still Too High!
Progress: 80%
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
Default

I get into ketosis quicker than ANYONE I know... If I eat non-LC around say midnight, then sleep, then by that EVENING I am showing trace ketones... So less than 24 hours for me to get into ketosis. But even me, that cheat meal will pull me out of it and prevent me from being in ketosis except obviously for a VERY small portion of the day. I could probably lose small amounts of weight like this, or maintain, but it wouldn't be an option for losing a lot.

I can pack in a LOT of pasta in 60 minutes!!!
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  #10   ^
Old Wed, Aug-02-06, 09:25
Kristine's Avatar
Kristine Kristine is offline
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Posts: 25,582
 
Plan: Primal/P:E
Stats: 171/146/150 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 119%
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
Default

If I understand it correctly, the Hellers revised their plan and the reward meal is no longer an all-you-can-eat binge. The reward meal is to be balanced. There are some very strict rules about your other meals, also. Check out this sticky from the CAD forum for a little more info.
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  #11   ^
Old Wed, Aug-02-06, 17:27
Newbirth's Avatar
Newbirth Newbirth is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 2,766
 
Plan: -
Stats: -/-/- Female -
BF:
Progress: 96%
Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kristine
If I understand it correctly, the Hellers revised their plan and the reward meal is no longer an all-you-can-eat binge. The reward meal is to be balanced. There are some very strict rules about your other meals, also. Check out this sticky from the CAD forum for a little more info.
I still still do a lot of damage even if it were "balanced."
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  #12   ^
Old Wed, Aug-02-06, 20:45
abbyqueue abbyqueue is offline
New Member
Posts: 16
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 256.5/252/150 Female 5'9"
BF:
Progress: 4%
Location: Cincinnati, OH (N. KY)
Default

All very interesting thoughts, thanks for your input.

I know this is a lifestyle plan, and that's great and it is my goal, but I was just curious if how many (or few) ketones you have affected the weight loss. I have read the book, but I didn't realize that whether you're in deep or shallow(?) ketosis, it doesn't matter. All I remember is Atkins saying that you wanted to get that little stick to a deep purple.

I'm not suggesting that you combine the two diets and have an all-out binge for an hour; I was just wondering if you should try to have all of your 20 carbs within an hour or ration them throughout the day. (Essentially your 20g or less would be your "binge.")

I can say that there's no way I'm dehydrated -- I drink about a billion glasses of water a day, and -- let's face it -- am not doing that much physical activity so I'm not sweating a ton.

Not to be a total stoop, Michelle, but can you tell me where you found that fact about more ketones being present in your urine does not mean burning more fat? It's not like I don't believe you or anything, but I'm a very quantitative person and I'd like to look up some more stuff on it.

I do prefer to ration my carbs throughout the day, but I wouldn't be totally miserable if I decided to do all 20g at once -- to me, that's something to look forward to. (I know that's not the point of this diet, and it's not necessarily a good mental shift, but that's how I operate.)

I get into ketosis pretty quickly too, Jenn -- I would venture to say even more quickly than you described. I don't know if that's weird or not, but I do have a lot of fat to burn, so maybe my body's all about getting rid of it.
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  #13   ^
Old Wed, Aug-02-06, 22:18
freckles's Avatar
freckles freckles is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 8,730
 
Plan: Atkins Maintenance
Stats: 213/141/150 Female 5'4 1/2"
BF:
Progress: 114%
Location: Dallas, TX
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkloots
Abby, you are w-a-a--ay overthinking this whole deal. You'll drive yourself nuts.

Atkins intended for his plan to be simple and livable. Induction: 20 carbs or fewer. After two weeks, add some more veggies. After a few more weeks, add some nuts or berries. Enjoy eating a variety of healthy fresh meat, fish, green veggies, and eggs. Drink plenty of water, take some vitamins, and go for brisk walk every day. That's it.

It isn't magic. It's a way of changing old junk food habits into healthier eating habits--a method that most people find pleasant because they aren't hungry and deprived all the time.

So...forget about the ketosis thing, and just enjoy the program. If you follow the Atkins book, you'll do fine.

Best wishes.


I totally agree with this. I've tried analyzing, counting, figuring, tweaking, etc, etc, etc. Atkins' instructions were simple and they didn't include all of this. If I follow his plan I lose. Maybe not as fast as I want, but I DO lose. I, frankly, got tired of all the "overthinking." Oh, it helped me lose the weight - and get to goal. But it didnt' help me stay there. This time around I'm going to do it nice and easy as Atkins described.

And bkloots summed it up very nicely. Thank you.
freckles
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  #14   ^
Old Wed, Aug-02-06, 23:52
Earthgirl's Avatar
Earthgirl Earthgirl is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 492
 
Plan: Low Carb WOE
Stats: 156/135/135 Female 66 inches
BF:28/17%/19%
Progress: 100%
Location: Oklahoma USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by abbyqueue
All I remember is Atkins saying that you wanted to get that little stick to a deep purple.

I'm not suggesting that you combine the two diets and have an all-out binge for an hour; I was just wondering if you should try to have all of your 20 carbs within an hour or ration them throughout the day. (Essentially your 20g or less would be your "binge.")

Not to be a total stoop, Michelle, but can you tell me where you found that fact about more ketones being present in your urine does not mean burning more fat?

I haven't read Atkins for quite a while but I don't remember him stating that you have to get your stick to turn purple. I guess I missed that.

I don't have qualitative data-I have read it stated in several places on several websites when doing searches and surfing. Many of the senior members here have stated that this has been their experience. My experience has proven that when I was focused on turning my stick purple, I was (1) dehydrated, (2) not losing weight, (3) getting in too many calories by eating too many fat grams and drinking too much heavy cream, just to turn my stick purple. This was very frustrating when I was not losing weight! So I guess you could dismiss all of this as little more than anecdotal evidence. If you are enjoying turning your stick purple then have at it!

Everything I have read so far warns against eating all of your carbs at once, lest you spike your insulin levels and spark cravings. With respect, it doesn't sound like you have really read up on Atkins, or perhaps it doesn't make logical sense to you. It sounds rather like you have made your mind up about what you want to do. Good luck, and let us know how it goes.
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  #15   ^
Old Fri, Aug-04-06, 17:23
abbyqueue abbyqueue is offline
New Member
Posts: 16
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 256.5/252/150 Female 5'9"
BF:
Progress: 4%
Location: Cincinnati, OH (N. KY)
Default

"If you're excreting ketones in your urine, then the LTS will turn purple. The more ketones excreted, the darker the purple."

"To see them go from beige to purple is to receive in chemical code the message I'm losing weight."

- page 105, Dr. Atkins' New Diet Revolution

"We're going to make sure those LTS turn purple."

- page 110, Dr. Atkins' New Diet Revolution

All I'm saying is that Atkins makes it sound like the more ketones (or the "purpler" the stick), the better. If this isn't true, I can accept that -- I would just like some proof. I mean, hey, if I can lose as much weight in pink as I would in dark purple, then why strive for the purple? I just want to know.

Sorry it took me so long to respond, but my mom had my copy of the book -- she's planning to start the diet Monday!
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