Hi there.

I thought it was time we started a dialogue about some of the issues surrounding women and exercise, particularly weight-training.

Most research on bodybuilding (and medicine, and health...) gets done on men, because men don't have hormonal fluctuations throughout the month.

While some of the knowledge gleaned from this research may be applicable to women, some of it is not.

For example, CKD, which many of us have seen the fellas use VERY successfully to cut bodyfat, often produces less-than-optimal results on the women who use it.

At issue may be the fact that men have a LOT more testosterone than women (we all have testosterone and estrogen, but in different proportions), and hence, a LOT more muscle mass, or at least the potential for it. There is a relationship between the insulin response and testosterone that may not be strong enough in women to produce the same anabolic response as it does in men.

For example, on TKD, men are often advised to take in post-lifting dextrose or other carbs. For women, pre-lifting carbs can often be beneficial, but post-lifting carbs are problematic for some, but not all of us. In many women, the spillover into fat stores has come as a most unwelcome shock.

It seems reasonable to me that we can learn from each other here.

Fellas, you are MORE than welcome to join in. If you now something relevant, either from working as trainers with female athletes, or by watching the struggles and successes of your partners and friends, by all means, contribute.

I'll keep this first post updated with links to female-specific exercise-related information, so we won't all have to go reading through a hundred pages to find things.

Post 'em or PM them, and I'll tuck them in.

- Built

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<Strength Training For Women>
Discusses the typical amount of muscle gained and fat lost when women partake in resistance training, and nine other reasons why women need strength training.

Both of these studies involve endurance athletes and glycogen storage with carb loading:
<Supercompensation (Carb loading) in women may not work as well as in men...>

<Another one about carb loading and women, difference may be hormonal...>

Some info on carb cycling: (keep in mind, the guidelines are for men - for example, unlimited carb meal size, suggestion that carb meals should come before AND after lifting...)
<Twin Peaks Carb Cycling article>

built great thread just what we need here.

imo re: CKD so far it didnt work for me cuz 1) i didnt have the energy 2) i think you're right, i did feel CKD packin up extra fat if not done properly and i did exactly that cuz i cant keep up with 20g and 3) i lose weight?

i heard serrelind has good result from CKD hmm...so her input would be good. would pm her.

other input / ideas welcomed all thanks.

I wonder if women don't store enough glycogen to carry us through the week on CKD.

Hmmmmmm...

when you exhaust muscle glycogen it dips into the liver glycogen. that's all i can contribute to the glycogen conversation.

that said, i've had GREAT success with the NHE bulk. very very little fat gain!

Some women have success with these things, no doubt about it.

But to be fair, legwarmers, you're an ectomorph. Most of us here are probably some combination of endo/meso, and I suspect this may be part of it.

Still not refuting what you say, though. Success is success. And I think there may be some tweaking of programmes like CKD and NHE that may allow more people to enjoy success at them. I just don't know exactly how yet.

Now the muscle glycogen thing has me piqued - maybe it's the case that the larger your muscles are, the more glycogen they can store?

true, true... just wanted to share that it *can* work for some.

this is interesting... http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0882.htm

http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/carbo-loading.html

whats an ectomorph? also what are the diets like for BFL and NHD?

i'm naturally lean and i don't put on muscle easily, basically.

BFL.. is there a section for it here? if not, you can google for the site.

NHE... check the CKD exercise forum. there is an NHE 101 thread.

BFL: http://forum.lowcarber.org/forumdisplay.php?f=114

lucky, I wish I was an ectomo. thats what my sister is. Thanks for the sites, I'll have to check them out

For those interested in finding out their body type, you may want to check this out (not perfect, but good)
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/becker3.htm

Iowa Mesomorph here.
I tried the CKD - I felt horrible the during the carb ups and wasn't good at controlling it, either. Currently doing TKD and I feel quite comfortable.

The link told me I was a combo of endo/meso...I have only been working out for about a month...And I am building muscle like crazy...I can't believe it when l look at my legs...They are huge...I guess I am building the muscle before the fat is disappearing...I hope this straightens itself out. I weigh and measure tomorrow.

I have some questions as a resistance training newbie ... hope this is an appropriate place to ask them!

* I don't eat a lot of carbs (15-25). Other than not being able to lift as much weight, is there any muscle harm to keeping my intake so low?

* It takes many hours to digest and absorb protein from our food sources. If I ate a decent portion of lean protein long enough before my workout, couldn't I skip using a product like whey powder? Wouldn't my body use those amino acids to build with, not 'steal' it from existing muscle?

* I'm apparently an Endomorph (1.3 on the scale). The recommendation on the site says "Strength training should be done to get a better muscle to fat ratio and therefore improve metabolism. Use moderate weights at a fast training pace (very little rest between sets and exercises)."

I've been lifting one heavy set with 12 reps, then bumping up the weights and doing 1-4 more - as much as I can with proper form. I tend to lift slower. Is this perhaps something I should rethink?

Thanks for any advice!

I'm not at ALL sure about the training advise. I mean, they actually advised ectomorph women to try to gain some fat to look more "feminine".

My feeling on it is to stick to a traditional lifting programme until you stall - alternate a few months on heavier lifting, shorter sets (6-8 reps) and less-heavy lifting, longer sets (10-15 reps). Train for hypertrophy. This will help your metabolism a LOT.

As for the carbs/whey, I have NO basis for this claim other than personal experience, but here's my opinion:

Don't bother with them until you are seriously stalled and a bit closer to your goal weight.

I also have the impression that, like keto diets, cardio works better (for fat loss) the fatter you are. Not sure what your cardio is like now, and I am NOT saying you should do a LOT of it, but you might do well with regular, moderate post-lifting cardio (brisk walk - nothing more strenuous) for 20-30 minutes, and some walking or bike riding on non-lifting days. I don't get that much cardio anymore, because it doesn't seem to do as much as the lifting does now, but I did more when I was fatter because it seemed to do more for me then.

Just a random thought.


Back to food: I only do whey pre-lifting now, because it stalled me when I was trying to do a cut. And if your energy levels are good, leave your diet alone for now. Again, when you feel you need a bit of a change, perhaps try some TKD-style carbups to see how it makes you feel.

And CERTAINLY, if you feel the onset of a cheat, at least have some strategy and arrange to lift afterward LOL!

Sound like a plan to you?

Any other takers on this one?