Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Low-Carb Studies & Research / Media Watch > Low-Carb War Zone
User Name
Password
FAQ Members Calendar Mark Forums Read Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16   ^
Old Mon, Dec-08-14, 09:43
Bob-a-rama's Avatar
Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,953
 
Plan: Keto (Atkins Induction)
Stats: 235/175/185 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: Florida
Default

I guess we are all just different - different mouth chemistry?

Some people say they can't stand coconut oil, and I find the taste so subtle that it almost has no flavor. I get Nutiva because it seems to be the strongest tasting and I can barely taste the coconut flavor in it.

On the other hand, I can't get broccoli, cabbage, Brussels sprouts and similar foods past the gag reflex if I try.

Fortunately a good brand of stevia tastes good to me.

Bob
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #17   ^
Old Sat, Jan-03-15, 06:56
coachjeff's Avatar
coachjeff coachjeff is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 635
 
Plan: Very Low Carb
Stats: 211/212/210 Male 72
BF:
Progress: -100%
Location: Shreveport, LA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carson35
Pure stevia is the only one that doesn't mess with my blood sugar levels and the one I bought on Amazon lasts forever! I hardly use it anymore since I quit coffee though.


Of course 100% pure stevia (I assume you use the liquid extract?) is of course 100% free of "bulking agents" like glucose/dextrose.

Whereas packets of Splenda, Nutrasweet, and the pink packets (saccharine) have about a gram of glucose/dextrose per packet I believe.

That's why I use liquid sucralose ("Splenda") instead of the packets. It's not "bulked out" with sugar like the packets are.

There's a very affordable brand available on Amazon called NuSweet Liquid Sucralose.

I actually buy liquid stevia by Now Foods on Amazon as well. Then in a little bottle with a dropper, I do a 50/50 mix of both the stevia and liquid sucralose.

That cuts my consumption of artificial sweetener in half, and also cuts the bitter aftertaste of the stevia. I find that blend to be perfect for my morning coffee, which I will likely NEVER give-up.

Though I do now drink my own version of "half-caff" instant coffee by mixing together 50% Folger's instant coffee, 25% Folger's instant de-caff, and 25% unsweetened cocoa.

It still "clears the cobwebs" from my morning brain, but without the jittery side-effects I get from the higher octane stuff.

Perhaps I should start marketing all these mixtures. (<:
Reply With Quote
  #18   ^
Old Sat, Jan-03-15, 07:02
coachjeff's Avatar
coachjeff coachjeff is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 635
 
Plan: Very Low Carb
Stats: 211/212/210 Male 72
BF:
Progress: -100%
Location: Shreveport, LA
Default

Regarding taste of coconut oil....the lightly "refined" versions have had the taste and smell of coconut removed. Even the "organic" versions offer this option. I'm pretty sure the refining process they use for this is harmless. We're NOT talking hydrogenation or other unhealthy refining processes here.

Just look for "Refined Coconut Oil" on the label if you don't like the small/taste of coconuts.

I also see they are selling spray versions of it these days. Though I'm a tad wary of that, considering it's a SOLID oil at room temperature. So not sure how they are keeping it a liquid. Some kinda new-fangled space-age technology?
Reply With Quote
  #19   ^
Old Sat, Jan-03-15, 09:53
Bob-a-rama's Avatar
Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,953
 
Plan: Keto (Atkins Induction)
Stats: 235/175/185 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: Florida
Default

I used to use Kal brand Stevia because it was 100# Stevia with no added ingredients.

Now they added maltodextrin to the formula, so as soon as these are gone, there will be no more Kal for me. The maltodextrin is most likely from GMO corn, which is banned in over 65 countries because it has been proven to promote serious diseases like cancer and dementia.

I'm going to try Now brand 100% organic stevia next.

Bob
Reply With Quote
  #20   ^
Old Sat, Jan-03-15, 13:39
Kristine's Avatar
Kristine Kristine is offline
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25,581
 
Plan: Primal/P:E
Stats: 171/146/150 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 119%
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
Default

Coconut oil spray?! (Goes to look at the ingredients)

I assume the emulsifier, soy lecithin, plus the propellant, is responsible for the sprayability. I wonder if they also isolate the very small amount of mono/polyunsaturated fat from the coconut oil.

Last edited by Kristine : Sat, Jan-03-15 at 13:46.
Reply With Quote
  #21   ^
Old Sat, Jan-03-15, 19:20
coachjeff's Avatar
coachjeff coachjeff is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 635
 
Plan: Very Low Carb
Stats: 211/212/210 Male 72
BF:
Progress: -100%
Location: Shreveport, LA
Default

Oh dear...just learned via Dr. Jason Fung's excellent blog that sucralose increases insulin quite a bit. At least in obese people.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23633524
Reply With Quote
  #22   ^
Old Sat, Jan-03-15, 19:26
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,843
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

That's not what that study says:

"These data demonstrate that sucralose affects the glycemic and insulin responses to an oral glucose load in obese people who do not normally consume NNS."

If you eat cake and wash it down with a diet pepsi, you'll have a higher glucose load than if you wash it down with water.
Reply With Quote
  #23   ^
Old Sun, Jan-04-15, 08:18
coachjeff's Avatar
coachjeff coachjeff is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 635
 
Plan: Very Low Carb
Stats: 211/212/210 Male 72
BF:
Progress: -100%
Location: Shreveport, LA
Default

Not a perfect study of course. But still disturbing that sucralose, which I always thought of as benign, could result in what Dr. Fung describes as 25% higher insulin levels (relative to "placebo" of H2O) in the study subjects, when presented with a glucose load.

Fung seems to be MUCH more concerned about insulin than glucose. Viewing high BG levels as merely symptomatic of underlying insulin resistance.

His central thesis seems to be that the primary cause of insulin resistance is insulin itself. That an insulinogenic diet, which makes one produce excess insulin in a "steady-state" manner (rather than in a healthier pulsatile/intermittent manner) is THE main cause of cellular insulin resistance.

Thus creating a negative feedback loop. Pancreas desperately pumping out ever higher levels of insulin in a vain attempt to overcome the insulin resistance. Which of course just causes even greater insulin resistance.

Fung seems to feel typical "Atkins allowable" foods such as artificial sweeteners, dairy, and maybe even "excess" protein, all collectively contribute to making even an LC diet too insulinogenic. Particularly the dairy proteins according to him.

Anway. I guess I'm getting a bit off topic...but suffice to say he's got me taking a real long, hard look at my sucralose in my morning half-caff-coffee habit.

Last edited by coachjeff : Sun, Jan-04-15 at 08:32.
Reply With Quote
  #24   ^
Old Sun, Jan-04-15, 11:20
deirdra's Avatar
deirdra deirdra is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,324
 
Plan: vLC/GF,CF,SF
Stats: 197/136/150 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 130%
Location: Alberta
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob-a-rama
I guess we are all just different - different mouth chemistry?
Maybe I'm lucky because I can't stand the taste and especially the aftertaste of Splenda/sucralose, which sticks around all day in my mouth; even teeth and tongue brushing won't get rid of it, so I avoid sucralose. I never had this problem with any other artificial sweeteners, but have weened myself off of them except for a bit of pure stevia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coachjeff
Fung seems to feel typical "Atkins allowable" foods such as artificial sweeteners, dairy, and maybe even "excess" protein, all collectively contribute to making even an LC diet too insulinogenic. Particularly the dairy proteins according to him.
Interesting; dairy proteins (in greek yogurt, cream cheese etc.) have always left me hungry and craving more so I avoid them too...Fung must be on to something...I'll need to add his blog to my continually-growing reading list.

Last edited by deirdra : Sun, Jan-04-15 at 11:29.
Reply With Quote
  #25   ^
Old Mon, Jan-05-15, 09:15
Bob-a-rama's Avatar
Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,953
 
Plan: Keto (Atkins Induction)
Stats: 235/175/185 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: Florida
Default

It's truly amazing how different our taste buds are.

I have no problem with Stevia at all, unless it's an inferior brand. If I go out for coffee and don't have Stevia packs handy, I'll do Splenda/Sucralose with no problem, but I prefer Stevia because it's a plant that has been feeding people for centuries without any problems.

I am a finicky eater. There are certain foods that no matter how hard I try (because I know they are good for me) I just can't get past the gag reflex.

I also learned that I have the equivalent of color blindness but in my nose, which as we know is related to taste. There are certain smells I just cannot smell. For example: I can put my nose in a bag of sugar and there is absolutely no odor at all. My DW can smell an open bowl of sugar yards away from it.

So from reading on the Internet (I know, that's dangerous) I have discovered that all plants have certain chemicals in them, and one in particular signals that the plant is poisonous. Even most non-poisonous plants have a bit of these flavors (chemicals) in them, some more than others.

Putting all that I've read together, I've deduced that (1) I am very sensitive to the bitter that signals poison so I taste the minute quantity that is in some foods that aren't poisonous and (2) being scent/taste blind, I don't taste the good flavors that blend with the 'danger' flavor. The result is that even if I want to be kind to a host/hostess who invites me to dinner, I can't force certain foods down my throat no matter how hard I try, if I manage to get them past the gag reflux, they are coming back up.

So I have sympathy for those who don't like Stevia, Coconut Oil and a number of other flavors that agree with me.

Bob
Reply With Quote
  #26   ^
Old Wed, Feb-11-15, 13:52
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,036
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KDH
I'm pretty sure if you force feed a mouse 10x it's body weight in damn near anything new to its natural diet, it will cause problems. Myself, I'll stick with my drop or two of sweetzfree every now and then. Stevia is nasty, if I wanted something that tasted like that, I'd just go lick the residue from a urinal at a halfway house. Makes my tongue feel like its coated in plastic for hours.

Brilliant post!
Reply With Quote
  #27   ^
Old Fri, Feb-13-15, 18:03
Faker II's Avatar
Faker II Faker II is offline
New Member
Posts: 6
 
Plan: Carb Nite
Stats: 175/169/155 Male 5 feet 10 inches
BF:
Progress:
Default

It seems like every time a new artificial sweetener comes out on the market, the previous popular artificial sweetener instantly becomes cancer causing.
Reply With Quote
  #28   ^
Old Fri, Feb-13-15, 21:19
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by coachjeff
Oh dear...just learned via Dr. Jason Fung's excellent blog that sucralose increases insulin quite a bit. At least in obese people.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23633524


They mention another study, with different results, here;

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art.../?report=reader

Quote:
In contrast, the data from previous studies found that the oral ingestion of a NNS before a glucose load augmented GLP-1 (19,20) but did not affect GIP secretion. However, in those studies total GLP-1—not the biologically active form of GLP-1—was measured (19,20). Although it is possible that the discrepancy between GLP-1 findings of those and our study is the result of this methodological difference, we think it is unlikely because active and total GLP-1 are highly correlated with each other (30). A second methodological difference is that in those studies a diet cola sweetened with both sucralose and acesulfame potassium (19,20) was used, so it is unclear whether the enhanced glucose-stimulated GLP-1 response was mediated by acesulfame potassium, a synergistic effect of both sweeteners, or other ingredients contained in the carbonated drinks (20).


In the cola study, there isn't much difference in blood glucose or insulin when the 75 gram glucose drink was given after diet cola vs. control. They suggest that it's the type of sweetener. But I couldn't find anything in this second study suggesting that diet cola was a novel experience for the participants. Feed a rat saccharin paired with food, it gets fat. Give it a week to become used to the sweetener before giving it with the food, and the animal learns to ignore the sweetener--adding the sweetener to the chow won't make this animal fat. Carefully controlled experiments are good, they allow very specific information to be learned. Giving an artificial sweetener unpaired with a flavour, or paired with a novel flavour, and then 75 grams of glucose, gives us very specific information. It says nothing about what the diet beverages I've been drinking since I was a teenager will do to me. I really think the question shouldn't be "are artificial sweeteners harmful or safe?" but "under what conditions are artificial sweeteners harmful or safe."

Sweetness unpaired with some distinctive flavour is fairly rare in nature. And I never sweeten just water.

With the cancer thing that started this thread--feeding patterns out of phase with normal circadian rhythm can increase cancer.

Quote:
Cancer inhibition through circadian reprogramming of tumor transcriptome with meal timing.

Abstract
Circadian disruption accelerates cancer progression, whereas circadian reinforcement could halt it. Mice with P03 pancreatic adenocarcinoma (n = 77) were synchronized and fed ad libitum (AL) or with meal timing (MT) from Zeitgeber time (ZT) 2 to ZT6 with normal or fat diet. Tumor gene expression profiling was determined with DNA microarrays at endogenous circadian time (CT) 4 and CT16. Circadian mRNA expression patterns were determined for clock genes Rev-erbalpha, Per2, and Bmal1, cellular stress genes Hspa8 and Cirbp, and cyclin A2 gene Ccna2 in liver and tumor. The 24-hour patterns in telemetered rest-activity and body temperature and plasma corticosterone and insulin-like growth factor-I (IGF-I) were assessed. We showed that MT inhibited cancer growth by approximately 40% as compared with AL (P = 0.011) irrespective of calorie intake. Clock gene transcription remained arrhythmic in tumors irrespective of feeding schedule or diet. Yet, MT upregulated or downregulated the expression of 423 tumor genes, according to CT. Moreover, 36 genes involved in cellular stress, cell cycle, and metabolism were upregulated at one CT and downregulated 12 h apart. MT induced >10-fold circadian expression of Hspa8, Cirbp, and Ccna2 in tumors. Corticosterone or IGF-I patterns played no role in tumor growth inhibition. In contrast, MT consistently doubled the circadian amplitude of body temperature. Peak and trough respectively corresponded to peak expressions of Hspa8 and Cirbp in tumors. The reinforcement of the host circadian timing system with MT induced 24-hour rhythmic expression of critical genes in clock-deficient tumors, which translated into cancer growth inhibition. Targeting circadian clocks represents a novel potential challenge for cancer therapeutics.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20395208

Palatability is often pointed at as causing overeating, and the overeating leading to various diseases. In lots of rodent models of obesity, the animals won't actually eat more than control rats on the obesity/disease-provoking diets. A very common change is in meal pattern--instead of eating mostly during their normal active period, with a smaller number of larger meals, animals will eat a large number of smaller meals, around the clock. Constant snacking. Forced to eat only when they would have if offered a more healthful chow diet, the animals are as healthy as if they had been on the more healthful chow. This is one of the things that needs to be checked for in every study in rodents showing that dietary artificial sweeteners increased cancer, at any dose, did it affect meal pattern?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:25.


Copyright © 2000-2024 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.