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  #151   ^
Old Thu, Mar-02-06, 03:10
dane's Avatar
dane dane is offline
muscle bound
Posts: 3,535
 
Plan: Lyle's PSMF
Stats: 226/150/135 Female 5'7.5"
BF:46/20/sliced
Progress: 84%
Location: near Budapest, Hungary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theBear
Polar bears, by the way, are the largest bears on the planet and are total carnivores, NOT omnivores.


Quote:
When seals are unavailable, polar bears eat other marine mammals, reindeer, small rodents, sea birds, ducks, fish, eggs, vegetation (including kelp), berries, and human garbage.
http://www.buschgardens.org/infoboo...ars/pbdiet.html

Quote:
When the bears come ashore in areas where the pack ice melts during the summer, they can no longer hunt seals. They live mainly on their fat stores and conserve energy by remaining inactive over 80 percent of the time. They will scavenge on carcasses if they find them, and adolescents and females accompanied by dependent young, in particular, will occasionally eat grasses and berries. Bears have even been seen diving for seaweed and trying to catch seabirds sitting on the water by swimming underwater and coming up beneath them. Very few cases of bears killing and eating caribou and muskoxen are known.
http://www.hww.ca/hww2.asp?cid=8&id=99

So even "true" carnivores occasionally eat some plant matter?
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  #152   ^
Old Thu, Mar-02-06, 03:27
PaleoDeano's Avatar
PaleoDeano PaleoDeano is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,582
 
Plan: antivegan,was subzerocarb
Stats: 200/187/175 Male 6' 0"
BF:27%/19%/12%
Progress: 52%
Location: Flyover Zone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dane
So even "true" carnivores occasionally eat some plant matter?
Yah... negligible amounts. So what?
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  #153   ^
Old Thu, Mar-02-06, 03:37
theBear theBear is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 311
 
Plan: zero-carb
Stats: 140/140/140 Male 5'6"
BF:
Progress:
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Actually I wasn't run off, I was in hospital Tuesday/Wed for an operation to repair holes in my eardrums. I got the holes from grommets placed there to relieve blocked Eustachian tubes caused by radiation therapy in '04 for throat cancer- the cancer was killed- but not without some collateral damage. Tubes opened up after a few months, but the grommets did not 'fall out' as I was told they would. As a musician, I have been very upset over my hearing for a while, but I think this is going to work and I will get back what hearing I had, at least. Nothing can fix the roll-off that years of Grateful Dead did to me, of course. And... I used cotton wool in my ears most of the time.

We (the doctors, my son -a vet- and I) think the cancer remained in my neck due to my very low glucose turnover, since most cancers of this kind (stage 4a SCC/tonsil) metastase rapidly. SCC cells are very glucose avid. Another life plus from the zero-carb lifestyle. The specialist who supervised my treatment said my fitness level was very important and helped my recovery. I have to say, this kind of thing is not anything you ever want to undergo. One thing that was interesting was that the radiation makes it impossible to swallow anything, even water, so they wanted me to get aq tube put through my abdomen into my stomach a 'PEG" tube. I resisted and lost weight like crazy- I simply could not swallow enough of anything, even protein drinks with heavy cream, and had the tube put in. Then of course they wanted me to use a prepared liquid meal called Sustegen- carb based of course, which I refused.

I managed to get a nice food processor and made my regular meat and fat meals, turned them into a liquid, and squirted them in with a 60 ml syringe- Takes forever to get enough to eat that way, I can tell you. In the end, I still must make soup-like meals because a nerve was crushed by the tumour and half my throat does not contract to force solids into my esophagus. Nothing tastes the same either (garlic helps), but that is not as bad as not being able to simply chew up and swallow pieces of lovely rare steak. Not to complain, I like being alive and I don't have any kind of fixation on how I eat my food. Oysters are a love from my youth, and I can still chew them up and wash them down ok, So all is not lost.

They said it was very odd I should get this kind of cancer, it is usually a mark of smoking tobacco and drinking hard spirits. But I was exposed to years of heavy tobacco smoke during my days as a soundman- smokey bars and clubs, limos and venues- Garcia for one smoked Camels.

I smoked for a couple of years from about 11, but it made me feel shitty in the morning and I gave it away. I much prefer cannabis to alcohol, never liked hard liquor and gave away even having the odd glass of wine in '90 when I began lifting weights.
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  #154   ^
Old Thu, Mar-02-06, 03:41
dane's Avatar
dane dane is offline
muscle bound
Posts: 3,535
 
Plan: Lyle's PSMF
Stats: 226/150/135 Female 5'7.5"
BF:46/20/sliced
Progress: 84%
Location: near Budapest, Hungary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean
Yah... negligible amounts. So what?

So what?

I was just under the impression that a "true" carnivore eats meat, and meat only, no vegetation. I'm not trying to be stupid or confrontational.....it's just theBear specifically said bears are "total carnivores". He makes this statement as fact, yet it goes against what *I* have learned.

Quote:
A carnivore (KAR-nih-vohr) meaning "meat eater" (Latin carn = flesh + vorare = to devour) is an animal that eats a diet consisting solely of meat, whether it comes from live animals or dead (scavenging).

The word also refers to the mammals of the Order Carnivora, many (but not all) of which fit the first definition. Bears are an example of members of Carnivora that are not true carnivores.
Quote:
True carnivores lack the physiology required for the efficient digestion of vegetable matter, and in fact some carnivorous mammals eat vegetation specifically as an emetic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnivore

I just find this interesting. BTW, Dean, I actually think your Cat Theory has merit.
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  #155   ^
Old Thu, Mar-02-06, 03:44
dane's Avatar
dane dane is offline
muscle bound
Posts: 3,535
 
Plan: Lyle's PSMF
Stats: 226/150/135 Female 5'7.5"
BF:46/20/sliced
Progress: 84%
Location: near Budapest, Hungary
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Bear, sorry to hear you were in hospital.
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  #156   ^
Old Thu, Mar-02-06, 03:49
PaleoDeano's Avatar
PaleoDeano PaleoDeano is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,582
 
Plan: antivegan,was subzerocarb
Stats: 200/187/175 Male 6' 0"
BF:27%/19%/12%
Progress: 52%
Location: Flyover Zone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dane
BTW, Dean, I actually think your Cat Theory has merit.
So do my cats!

I often refer to this theory as "survival of the cutest"!

Last edited by PaleoDeano : Thu, Mar-02-06 at 14:05.
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  #157   ^
Old Thu, Mar-02-06, 04:03
theBear theBear is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 311
 
Plan: zero-carb
Stats: 140/140/140 Male 5'6"
BF:
Progress:
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I don't know whether polar bears ever eat any non-meat items, certainly Stefansson did not think they did, and the polar bear is considered an endangered species due to a reduction in prey availability. That some carnivores, especially the canids, the family to which all true bears belong (pandas are not bears but large members of the raccoon family) may eat some non-meat items does not mean they can digest them- and anyway, what does this line of pursuit have to do with what a human eats? I mentioned the polar bear only because one posting said bears were omnivores, but the polar bear is not an omnivore.

...I will answer my own question- it has nothing to do with it, it is simply someone expressing unconscious discomfort at the ideas I am promoting- socialisation strikes again.

The thing which makes humans unique is our society, and our culture. Animals also may have culture, like the Japanese monkeys who learn to wash their food in the ocean from each other and chimps learning to use simple tools from other chimps, and the most extreme, learning (human) sign language from another chimp- but in humans it completely overrides all our instinctive behaviour. The upside is so obvious I don't need to mention it, but the down side is that, like trying to do brain surgery on yourself, it is very hard to understand and change- it is written at too deep a level in our consciousness.
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  #158   ^
Old Thu, Mar-02-06, 04:04
PaleoDeano's Avatar
PaleoDeano PaleoDeano is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,582
 
Plan: antivegan,was subzerocarb
Stats: 200/187/175 Male 6' 0"
BF:27%/19%/12%
Progress: 52%
Location: Flyover Zone
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Bear,

Hope your hearing is back as it should be. Sorry about your throat.
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  #159   ^
Old Thu, Mar-02-06, 06:22
vicgerry's Avatar
vicgerry vicgerry is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 30
 
Plan: neanderthin
Stats: 200/183/165 Male 5ft 10inches
BF:
Progress: 49%
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Sorry to hear about your cancer Bear, hope you have totally beat it and will have many more years of happy hunting. If you are interested, there is a wonderful formula from the Objibwa Indians of Northern Ontario called Essiac. If you google it you will find a lot of interesting info about it. It can be taken with any medication and has been very successful at curing cancer over the years.
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  #160   ^
Old Thu, Mar-02-06, 07:01
Duparc's Avatar
Duparc Duparc is offline
New Member
Posts: 586
 
Plan: self-designed
Stats: 216/189/190 Male tad under 6'
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Kirriemuir, Scotland
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Am I detecting a contradiction in what you are saying Bear? Surely not; yet in your first post you mention about your long-term dietary effect on your body and of how you have a body of a 30 year old and that you're skin remains young and elastic; and now you say that you suffer from cancer. It does not sound from this distance that your diet has done you any good so, meantime, probably permanently, I'll give your dietary recommendations a very wide berth indeed. It would, however, be nice to know of the credentials that places you in the position of authority to relate in the manner that you do.
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  #161   ^
Old Thu, Mar-02-06, 09:24
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is offline
Posts: 8,758
 
Plan: Paleoish/Keto
Stats: 225/167/175 Male 71.5 inches
BF:18%
Progress: 116%
Location: Longmont, Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theBear
Polar bears, by the way, are the largest bears on the planet and are total carnivores, NOT omnivores.
I did a quick Google search of polar bear's diet and found this (bolding mine).
Quote:
When other food is unavailable, polar bears eat reindeer, small rodents, seabirds, ducks, fish, eggs, vegetation (including kelp), berries, and human garbage.
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  #162   ^
Old Thu, Mar-02-06, 10:13
Rob21370's Avatar
Rob21370 Rob21370 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 225
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 336/297/140 Male 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 20%
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
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Sorry to hear about your hospital visit Bear.

I have to say one thing though, I've been eating nothing but meat eggs and cheese for the last couple weeks (sorry Terra, don't miss the salads and broccoli one bit) and I feel like I'm losing weight even faster than the first time I did it in 1998. All in all I feel pretty damn good and energized as of late. If I had any doubts left about Bear's abhorrance of veggies they just disappeared.
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  #163   ^
Old Thu, Mar-02-06, 12:40
PaleoDeano's Avatar
PaleoDeano PaleoDeano is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,582
 
Plan: antivegan,was subzerocarb
Stats: 200/187/175 Male 6' 0"
BF:27%/19%/12%
Progress: 52%
Location: Flyover Zone
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Rob, I know what you mean. When I went one month eating that way, the body fat just FELL off of me... and I ate all I wanted! I am going to gradually get back to eating this way. I say gradually, cuz I have heard one can have problems if they transition too fast. But, I am convinced that this is the diet for me. If it works like it has in the past, and I can keep myself from questioning the need for veggies and fruit, I will continue as much as I can in eating this way. Perhaps it is because I am from northern European descent, but this diet does seem to be the one that my body is best suited to.

Duparc... please, let's not start this whole thing up again!

Boy... Did you guys 'rumble' at some Janis Joplin concert, way back when, or what?!!

Last edited by PaleoDeano : Thu, Mar-02-06 at 13:14.
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  #164   ^
Old Thu, Mar-02-06, 12:49
PaleoDeano's Avatar
PaleoDeano PaleoDeano is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,582
 
Plan: antivegan,was subzerocarb
Stats: 200/187/175 Male 6' 0"
BF:27%/19%/12%
Progress: 52%
Location: Flyover Zone
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodger
I did a quick Google search of polar bear's diet and found this (bolding mine).
That's funny... so did dane!

Last edited by PaleoDeano : Thu, Mar-02-06 at 14:53.
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  #165   ^
Old Thu, Mar-02-06, 13:15
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,843
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
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Ok... most animals can synthesize vitamin C. Humans can't. I don't believe C is available from meat sources. So... how is it proposed that human get their C?
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