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  #16   ^
Old Sun, Dec-21-08, 16:09
feelskinny's Avatar
feelskinny feelskinny is offline
AntiSAD
Posts: 6,800
 
Plan: finding my happy place
Stats: 245/231.4/200 Female 67 inches.
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Progress: 30%
Location: Saskatchewan.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kisal
Also, I always add some skins from yellow onions (yes, the papery stuff you peel off! ) when I make chicken broth. It gives the broth a lovely yellow color. My grandma taught me that trick.


Great tip - thanks for sharing!
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  #17   ^
Old Sun, Dec-21-08, 20:57
ImOnMyWay's Avatar
ImOnMyWay ImOnMyWay is offline
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Plan: OWL
Stats: 177/168/135 Female 5'1"
BF:50.5/38/25
Progress: 21%
Location: Los Angeles
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
Ok, reading my Harold McGee's, food scientist, book he says the scum are cell proteins that look like grey particles if you leave them in. Nothing about them tasting off.

McGee has a lot written on stock and says to be sure to cook it low and slow. Whole section on the importance of a cold start and uncovered, slow heating. The reason, the ugly proteins rise to the top and skim off easily. If you boil they remain suspended and get cloudy in the stock. IMHO, the scum might be nutrition I'd rather not discard.

I think the last time I made stock, I didn't bother with it. I didn't notice any off flavors, just a cloudy stock.


Nancy, that book sound interesting. What is the title?

Thank you to everybody who is posting. I'm learning a lot.
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  #18   ^
Old Mon, Dec-22-08, 08:29
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
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It's a cool book! Harold McGee, "On Food and Cooking". Alton Brown is one of his devotes. You can just open that book randomly and get totally engrossed in some amazing stuff.
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  #19   ^
Old Mon, Dec-22-08, 10:15
awriter's Avatar
awriter awriter is offline
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Posts: 1,096
 
Plan: Kwasniewski Ratios
Stats: 225/158/145 Female 65
BF:53%/24%/20%
Progress: 84%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
reading my Harold McGee's

McGee is my cooking hero and go-to guy in the kitchen!

Quote:
McGee has a lot written on stock and says to be sure to cook it low and slow. Whole section on the importance of a cold start and uncovered, slow heating. The reason, the ugly proteins rise to the top and skim off easily. If you boil they remain suspended and get cloudy in the stock. IMHO, the scum might be nutrition I'd rather not discard.


He's right - they are 'ugly' proteins, and they don't taste great, but of course you're free to eat them if you like. OTOH, you might like the taste -- so let us know the result of your experiment. For me, it's a question of what *I* would call 'okay' stock (without skimming), or great-looking and tasting stock that I'd be happy to serve to me and/or guests. As always, YMMV!

Lisa
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  #20   ^
Old Mon, Dec-22-08, 15:56
IslandGirl's Avatar
IslandGirl IslandGirl is offline
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Posts: 4,909
 
Plan: Atkins,PP - wgt in %
Stats: 100/96.8/69 Female 5'6.5"
BF:DWTK/DDare/JEnuf
Progress: 10%
Location: Vancouver Island, BC
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Highly reduced stock isn't QUITE a demi-glace (proper original spelling), it IS, however a meat glaze or glace de viande.

Quote:
Meat glaze, French: Glace de viande, is a dark brown, gelatinous, flavouring agent used in food preparation. It is obtained by reducing brown stock through evaporation by slow heating. Its high viscosity and salt content gives it an unusually long shelf-life.

Quote:
Demi-glace is a rich brown sauce in French cuisine used by itself or as a base for other sauces. The term comes from the French word glace, which used in reference to a sauce means icing or glaze. It is traditionally made by combining equal parts of vealstock and sauce espagnole, the latter being one of the five mother sauces of classical French cuisine, and the mixture is then simmered and reduced by half. Common variants of demi-glace use a 1:1 mixture of beef or chicken stock to sauce espagnole; these are referred to as "beef demi-glace" (demi-glace au boeuf) or "chicken demi-glace" (demi-glace au poulet). The term "demi-glace" by itself implies that it is made with the traditional veal stock.

The basic recipe for demi-glace is provided by the French chef Escoffier, who is often considered to have established the method of French cooking as well as codified many of the standard French receipes. Although many recipes for demi-glace give the preparation for the espagnole first, and then the recipe for the brown stock, preparation should actually proceed in the reverse. A basic brown stock should be prepared, and, when completed, left on the heat to remain very warm. At this point, the espagnole is prepared, and when it is finished, the brown stock is added in equal portions to the espagnole. Demi-glace keeps very well, about six months refrigerated or almost indefinitely frozen.

Due to the considerable effort involved in making the traditional demi-glace, it is common for chefs to substitute a simple jus lié of veal stock or to create a simulated version, which Julia Child referred to as a "semi-demi-glace". However, even today, many chefs who prepare French haute cuisine use a demi-glace prepared in their own kitchen. Concentrates and mixes, mostly available to professional kitchens, are another way of avoiding the labor inherent in preparing the sauce. These vary in quality.

See also: Meat glaze


Quote:

Demi-Glace/Demi-Glaze Recipe
Source: Saveur Cooks Authentic American by The Editors of Saveur Magazine

1/4 lb. finely chopped bacon
1 medium yellow onion, peeled and chopped
1 carrot, peeled and chopped
1/4 cup flour
2 Tbsp. tomato paste
10 sprigs parsley
2 bay leaves
2 sprigs thyme
2-1/2 quarts (10 cups) beef stock

Render fat from bacon in a large saucepan over medium-low heat, about 15 minutes.

Add onions and carrots and cook, stirring occasionally, for 5 minutes.

Sprinkle vegetables with flour and continue cooking, stirring occasionally, for 10 minutes.

Add tomato paste, parsley, bay leaves, thyme, and 2 quarts (8 cups) beef stock. Simmer, skimming occasionally, over medium heat until sauce has reduced by three-quarters, about 3 hours.

Strain sauce, discard solids and return to pan. Add remaining 2 cups beef stock and simmer over medium heat until sauce has reduced by half, about 2 1/2 hours, then strain.

(Demi-glace can be stored in the refrigerator in a sealed container for up to 1 week or frozen for up to 6 months.)

Makes 2 cups


Harold and Alton would be agreeable to this, I think.

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  #21   ^
Old Mon, Dec-22-08, 21:33
awriter's Avatar
awriter awriter is offline
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Plan: Kwasniewski Ratios
Stats: 225/158/145 Female 65
BF:53%/24%/20%
Progress: 84%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IslandGirl
Highly reduced stock isn't QUITE a demi-glace (proper original spelling), it IS, however a meat glaze or glace de viande.

Thanks for the correction - glace de viande is what I meant for my chicken 'demi-glaze' - I couldn't spell if my life depended on it.

Quote:
The term "demi-glace" by itself implies that it is made with the traditional veal stock.

Which I don't make. Nor do I make a brown stock -- with flour -- to get my reduction. By adding chicken feet and a good bouquet garni to the stock, I'm able to get a gelatinous chicken reduction easily without brown sauce or flour, though I do add veggies (like carrots) to first create the broth, and then the meat glaze. Admittedly it's not as rich as a veal reduction, but it's a lot less expensive and very useful to create other luscious sauces.

Lisa
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  #22   ^
Old Mon, Dec-22-08, 22:03
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Man, lots of food geeks in this thread!
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  #23   ^
Old Mon, Dec-22-08, 23:06
capmikee's Avatar
capmikee capmikee is offline
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Plan: Weston A. Price, GFCF
Stats: 165/133/132 Male 5' 5"
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Progress: 97%
Location: Philadelphia
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Right on!

I used to be really into celery, but now I don't like the taste in stock as much as I used to. I do like a little carrot.

I had no idea the skin was different from the scum. I don't always catch the stock at the right time to skim it, so lately I've been keeping the heat low and not skimming. I have tasted the scum, I think, and it wasn't bad, maybe a little bitter.

I've always been curious about blood. In some cultures it's taboo, in others it's an important food. For a while I was speculating that it had to be really fresh, but that doesn't explain sausages made with blood. Or maybe it does- most cultures that honor pork do it by making sausage!

So, those of you who use fowl/stewers: what do you do with that tough, stringy meat? I'm more and more inclined to throw it out, but I hate to waste anything.
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  #24   ^
Old Tue, Dec-23-08, 00:30
Kisal's Avatar
Kisal Kisal is offline
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Plan: It's anybody's guess!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capmikee
So, those of you who use fowl/stewers: what do you do with that tough, stringy meat? I'm more and more inclined to throw it out, but I hate to waste anything.
Well, I always cut it up and used it to make chicken soup. But, hey, I learned to cook from my Grandma. We lived on a farm and wasting food was not acceptable. Anyway, I sure don't want anyone to mistake me for any kind of food pro! I definitely do not qualify for that category!
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  #25   ^
Old Tue, Dec-23-08, 10:13
capmikee's Avatar
capmikee capmikee is offline
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Plan: Weston A. Price, GFCF
Stats: 165/133/132 Male 5' 5"
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Chicken soup is about all I do with it. But I end up using half a chicken's worth of stock and only a quarter chicken's worth of meat. I make the coconut chicken soup from Nourishing Traditions, which has no meat, only stock. I put meat in it but I never want to eat it.
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  #26   ^
Old Tue, Dec-23-08, 10:23
Hamblets Hamblets is offline
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"On Food and Cooking" is one of the best books I've ever read and I would highly recommend it to anyone who is interested in the science of how cooking works. For me it dispelled a lot of myths/old wives tales that get handed down and unsurprisingly are still perpetuated by chefs on tv (UK in particular). I was living on a boat for a year and it was the only non-fiction book I had at the time so I literally devoured it!!
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  #27   ^
Old Wed, Dec-24-08, 00:13
ImOnMyWay's Avatar
ImOnMyWay ImOnMyWay is offline
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Plan: OWL
Stats: 177/168/135 Female 5'1"
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Islandgirl,

Thank you very much for all the info about sauces. I don't think I'll be making a true demi-glace any time soon. Unless ... what do you use it for? Is it like "Better Than Boullion"? (I'm guessing a true gourmet would shudder.) I use that product all the time, thinned out with water, to use in recipes, mostly in place of stock.
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  #28   ^
Old Wed, Dec-24-08, 10:36
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
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I only use bones and chicken giblets, (necks, wingtips, heart, etc), for making stock. I've heard that roasting the bones first makes them really good. There's always a little meat left on the bones. But I couldn't see wasting a whole chicken on making stock if you don't eat the meat afterwards.

Maybe the best thing to do is this: http://www.globalgourmet.com/food/k.../succulent.html

Pull the meat off the bones, put the bones back into the poaching liquid and make stock. Use the meat in the soup.
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  #29   ^
Old Wed, Dec-24-08, 11:29
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NANCI B NANCI B is offline
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My mom taught me to add chicken feet to the stock. They make an amazingly rich stock. All that collagen in the feet give the stock that lip sealing quality that I always want in a stock. I can find chicken feet in the little ethnic markets in my town and they are always cheap. I also get a chuckle out of the reactions from the check out people when I buy them. I also can always find chicken feet at the big supermarket in chinatown in Las Vegas.
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  #30   ^
Old Thu, Dec-25-08, 13:16
capmikee's Avatar
capmikee capmikee is offline
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Plan: Weston A. Price, GFCF
Stats: 165/133/132 Male 5' 5"
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Progress: 97%
Location: Philadelphia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awriter
Toss a 4-5 pound fowl, cut into about 8 pieces but with liver removed, into a huge stock pot. Add a few chicken feet. If you have the bones of a roasted chicken to add - great. Toss 'em in. Add an onion, peel still on, sliced in half vertically (from stem to stem). Keep the roots on so the onion doesn't disintegrate. Add 2 large, peeled carrots, cut in 3-4 pieces. Add several stalks of celery, cut into large pieces. Add 3-4 garlic cloves, peeled and whacked with the bottom of a heavy pan or knife - still basically in one piece with roots on. Cover with filtered water so that the chicken is completely covered by at least 5 inches of water. No salt or pepper is added at this time.

I forgot to ask - why no liver? I think stock is always better with some liver in it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImOnMyWay
I don't think I'll be making a true demi-glace any time soon. Unless ... what do you use it for? Is it like "Better Than Boullion"? (I'm guessing a true gourmet would shudder.) I use that product all the time, thinned out with water, to use in recipes, mostly in place of stock.


Hehe, shudder away! But you're in good company - most restaurants don't make their own stock anymore. It's all better than boullion, but you don't need to make a demi-glace or anything fancy. Just simmering some leftover bones with onions in a pot overnight will get you a broth better than boullion. Boullion is pretty much just salt and MSG - that's all that's left after all the processing and dehydration. If you make your own, you'll have lots more minerals and gelatin and other tasty, healthy good stuff.
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