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  #106   ^
Old Sun, Jan-07-07, 15:24
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
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PJ, I know that this is off topic, but would she read a book written by a diabetic (and also doctor) for diabetics about low carb?
It might be worth a shot to get her The Diabetes Solution by Richard K. Bernstein, MD. In fact, parts of his book can be read online by clicking this link
Check it out and see if it might be something that she'd consider.
My experience with the ADA diet was pretty much what you describe; going from bad to worse. Words can't express how grateful I am to have discovered low carbing before it was too late. I have yearly eye exams and my opthamologist has a hard time believing that I've been a diabetic for as long as I have because he can see no evidence of it in my eyes.
HTH!
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  #107   ^
Old Sun, Jan-07-07, 18:08
dina1957 dina1957 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,854
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 194/000/150 Female 5'5"
BF:Not sure
Progress: 441%
Location: Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa N

Repeating a GTT on someone who is a confirmed diabetic pointless and possibly even dangerous. A person can have fasting blood insulin levels drawn separately from a GTT and I may ask my doctor for that next checkup.

I did not get GTT either, they do it only for pregnant women now, since my FBG was already in diabetic range, there is not point to do it anyway. But my entire point (that you keep misintrepreting) is that what matters to see if one has reversed his IR by lowcarbing is to know what is the ration of glucose to insulin, or fasting insulin (for this matter). I can imagine having lower H1C is way to go but low H1c means lower glucose. Those of sulfos and/or insulin may have (some actually do) good H1C, but the amount of circulating insulin still does the damage. Even with low carbing, my fasting insulin was not normal. Other sign of still elevated insulin is difficulty to lose weight (seems you struggle with it too).
I had mine tested only once, most endo find it pointless, but interesting to see what is your doctor opinion on this test.
Quote:
It sounded like you were implying that tight control (or even moderate control) is pointless since all diabetics will develop complications no matter what they do.

I should have made myself more clear, if this would be my idea of diabetic control, I won't be part of this forum to begin with and would never watch my diet very closely. To the contrary, I control my BGs as tight as I can, but this does not garantee me from dying earlier from heart desease even with my tight control. High Bgs is just one aspect of diabetes, while high insulin (ok, higher than normal) still creates inflamation in the body, and it is hard to do something about it.
Skim through the archives on the DIC, when you have some time, and you will find so much controversy on the diabetes control, personally, I am now more confused on the subject then when I was just Dx and started reaing everything I could get my hands on.
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  #108   ^
Old Sun, Jan-07-07, 21:12
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
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Quote:
But my entire point (that you keep misintrepreting) is that what matters to see if one has reversed his IR by lowcarbing is to know what is the ration of glucose to insulin, or fasting insulin (for this matter).


Well...here is another link (thanks to ReginaW's website for providing the original link) that summarizes several studies, all of them showing a dramatic improvement in insulin resistance (as evidenced by dramatically lower circulating insulin levels) in studies that ranged from 3 to 24 weeks.
Quote:
Carbohydrate restriction is one of several strategies for reducing body mass but even in the absence of weight loss or in comparison with low fat alternatives, CHO restriction is effective at ameliorating high fasting glucose and insulin, high plasma triglycerides (TAG), low HDL and high blood pressure.

If a reduction of better than 50% in circulating insulin levels can be achieved in less than 6 months, wouldn't it be rational to assume that the improvement would continue over a longer period of time?
Study after study has shown that it is possible to reverse insulin resistance through low carbing. Why you seem to have not reaped that benefit, I wouldn't even hazard a guess and you would probably have a far better idea of the reasons than I would.
Finally, it is possible to assess overall insulin resistance without having circulating insulin levels drawn; the tryglyceride to HDL ratio (TAG:HDL) is beginning to be seen as a good indicator of insulin resistance and CAD risk (under 3.5 being good). Mine was 2.4 at last check.
from the link above:
Quote:
recent studies suggest that a subset of MetS, the ratio of TAG/HDL, is a good marker for insulin resistance and risk of CVD

see also this link
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  #109   ^
Old Mon, Jan-08-07, 11:42
dina1957 dina1957 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,854
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 194/000/150 Female 5'5"
BF:Not sure
Progress: 441%
Location: Bay Area
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Just to demonstrate how controversial is Diabetes in Control, opened it today and here is something not so new on high protein diets
Quote:
A High-Protein Diet Good for the Heart
on Tuesday, January 02 ~ 13:27:29 CST

A large study shows that there is such a thing as a heart-healthy high-protein diet that can lower harmful LDL cholesterol, triglycerides, and blood pressure.

Traditional high-protein diets are heart killers, clogging the arteries with saturated fat from meat, eggs, and cheese. But, according to a report from Harvard Medical School, a large study shows that there is such a thing as a heart-healthy high-protein diet that can lower harmful LDL cholesterol, triglycerides, and blood pressure.
The diet described in Healthy Eating: A Guide to the New Nutrition offers a healthful alternative to the old-fashioned Atkins-style diets that ooze artery-clogging saturated fat with every bite. Instead, this eating plan, one of several studied in the OmniHeart trial, includes high-protein foods from both animal and plant sources that are lower in saturated fat. Along with chicken and fish, dietary sources of protein include nuts, beans, whole-grain cereals, and fat-free dairy products.

A high-protein diet doesn’t have to be all steak and eggs, according to Dr. Frank M. Sacks, the editor of the report and Professor of Cardiovascular Disease Prevention at Harvard Medical School. And not all low-carb diets are the same. The most successful diet plans of any type have certain elements in common, including an emphasis on vegetables, fruits, and whole grains.
Healthy Eating is a 48-page report that includes a full discussion of the latest scientific developments in the field of nutrition. Diet influences your risk for many diseases and conditions, including heart disease, Alzheimer’s disease, diabetes, osteoporosis, eye disease, and some forms of cancer. The report includes information on what foods can help protect you from certain diseases—or make you more prone to them.


Also in this report:
• The Harvard Healthy Eating Pyramid
• Vitamins and minerals that have extra health benefits
• Additives to avoid
• Food safety tips
• The soy-health connection


http://www.diabetesincontrol.com/mo...rticle&sid=4436
Same approach to tight control, if you browse archives, so I frankly find this a bit confusing still... I prefer to relay on my own experience rather than on ANY study, as we all know they all biased after all, someone has to finance it.
EDA:
and something on statins
http://www.diabetesincontrol.com/mo...rticle&sid=4400

Last edited by dina1957 : Mon, Jan-08-07 at 11:53.
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  #110   ^
Old Mon, Jan-08-07, 15:54
Wyvrn's Avatar
Wyvrn Wyvrn is offline
Dog is my copilot
Posts: 1,448
 
Plan: paleo/lowcarb
Stats: 210/162/145 Female 62in
BF:
Progress: 74%
Location: Olympia, WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dina1957
isn't vescera is just a fish belly with fatty layer? I don't think it includes guts, bladdder and such. Indeed, they don't serve the belly part in sushi bars.
The viscera are the internal organs. "Visceral fat" is the fat inside the abdomenal or thoracic cavity usually attached to organs like the heart and kidneys, aka "suet" in ruminents. I think what most people refer to as "belly fat" is actually the external fat layer directly under the skin. The belly fat IS available in sushi bars - one of my favorite places gives it (roasted hamachi belly and cheek) to me as a freebie, usually after I've slurped down a pound of raw fish and can't hold another bite!
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  #111   ^
Old Mon, Jan-08-07, 16:04
Wyvrn's Avatar
Wyvrn Wyvrn is offline
Dog is my copilot
Posts: 1,448
 
Plan: paleo/lowcarb
Stats: 210/162/145 Female 62in
BF:
Progress: 74%
Location: Olympia, WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysabella
Ooh! Good tip. I've been meaning to try Koibito, it's handy by my house.
LOL, that sounds dangerous (to the bank acct)! If you ever want to meet up there, pm me - would be fun to meet another lowcarber We are planning to have sushi for dinner tonight actually, but will probably go to the one on Capitol, unless I hear from you since we went to the Koibito last time. We have to rotate through them since we have relationships with three different places - you probably know how that is
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  #112   ^
Old Mon, Jan-08-07, 17:51
dina1957 dina1957 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,854
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 194/000/150 Female 5'5"
BF:Not sure
Progress: 441%
Location: Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyvrn
The viscera are the internal organs. "Visceral fat" is the fat inside the abdomenal or thoracic cavity usually attached to organs like the heart and kidneys, aka "suet" in ruminents. I think what most people refer to as "belly fat" is actually the external fat layer directly under the skin. The belly fat IS available in sushi bars - one of my favorite places gives it (roasted hamachi belly and cheek) to me as a freebie, usually after I've slurped down a pound of raw fish and can't hold another bite!

This is what I thought, I can tell this fat is most prominent in herring and salmon.
it is my favorite part of herring (when I buy whole pickled herring - no sugar), and the meaty neck part- but grilled, very yummy.
yeah, I hear you, I can eat a pound of sashimi easily and then some more, LOL. But I can never eat the same amount of meat or poultry, raw fish just slides in, LOL.
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