I'm reading "The Art and Science of Low Carb" right now. They talk about getting sufficient protein, not LOW protein. In fact, if you go too low with the protein the weight loss might be muscle. I'm thinking I might need to raise mine a bit.

Yes, I found mine should be at or above 50 grams a day.........

How did you determine that? I thought you were calculating 1.5g per kg of reference weight, like Phinney/Volcek did.

What is reference weight? Do they define it in there anywhere? Goal weight? Ideal weight? Lean body weight? I've started reading the book, am not far into it yet, so maybe it's later than where I've left off...

Your goal weight essentially. If you're working with pounds take your goal weight and divide by 2.2 then multiply that by 1.5.

I used Phinney/Volcek to get my max protein but here to get minimum.

""""" I am going to use my reference weight as 140 lbs.

Here, I am told I need to eat at least 52 grams of protein a day.
http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/nu...n/a/protein.htm
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This was in the first post I made on the first day.

Using this method (and a 130 lb goal weight, which is probably unattainable for me) I come up with 88 g protein. That's way more than I'm eating now. Is that the ballpark you're in, Nancy?

Any suggestions in the book about choosing interim goal weights? Like basing the diet on a goal of, say, 180, then lowering it when (if!) I get near that?

Jimmy Moore, if I remember correctly, has focused on keeping his macronutrient ratios at a certain level and has ignored calories and protein. I'm having a very hard time squaring that with anything else I've read about Volek/Phinney.

I haven't read that so far, but it seems reasonable.

I think 80-90g of protein is kind of what I was averaging anyway. It doesn't exactly seem low to me.

Yeah, I'm not sure what Jimmy is doing, it doesn't sound like what I've read so far. I'm only 1/3 way through the book though.

Phinney/Volek mention that the minimum amount of protein is the RDA: 0.8 x current weight in kg (49g for me).

And in maintenance (ideal weight) they recommend 1.5-2.5 x ideal weight in kg, with the higher amount for serious athletes. This (92-153g for me, though I'm not an athlete) is higher than people like the Eades, Rosedale, Sears recommend (75-81g for me, based on my LBM & amount of exercise, not ideal weight only). People weighing 136 lbs can have LBMs of 68-125 lbs (based on body fat ranges of 7-50% mentioned in P/V), with none to high amounts of exercise - why should they all need the same amount of protein? Or did P/V think calculating LBM and then multiplying by a different number depending on your exercise level is too much math for the average American?

Elsewhere they say you cannot build muscle unless you're exercising. So if you're not exercising much what happens to the excess protein? Presumably gluconeogenesis. Why would I want that?

Several years ago I aimed for 100g protein/day based on a Swedish study Mike Eades mentioned, where they lost faster on a bit more protein. Yes I lost more, but it seemed like what I lost was more water; I'd wake up with my eyelids stuck to my eyes. This stopped when I dropped back to 81g protein. Also, protein tends to be more expensive than fat.

Yay! Thanks for the reference. I think I'll need to cut back a bit more.

But... they mentioned one study (or more) where they had people gaining muscle without exercise. In fact, that isn't the first time I've read that.

One thing that is a problem for me, is exactly how to measure exercise. I do not do cardio, but lift heavy weights 2 times a week. If I read the charts one way, I am at a moderate level, if another, I can be less. I think that is subjective and one reason I am going to experiment with protein adn NK to see if I can take it to the P/V recommendations for me.

Also, I have no easy way to calculate my LBM.

Yes! My budget has benefitted hugely!

Note: I didn't get the information here from Volek and Phinney or even a weight loss book. It's from a book about the ketogenic diet for epilepsy which includes modifications for overweight people. (Just so people don't miss the first sentence and think I'm talking V/P. )



I don't have the V/P book, but I do have a book on the ketogenic diet for epilepsy. They recommend .8 grams of protein per kg of body weight for adults. They recommend you base the protein on your ideal weight. Then, they recommend a lower amount of fat for the overweight. The fat : (protein + carb) ratio is 4:1 for normal weight people and 3:1 for the overweight.

Those recommendations are just starting points, though. You start there and modify as needed. That's probably what we'll all have to do.

I was looking at the recommendations in this book more carefully this morning. My serum ketone readings have almost all been between 2 and 3 - solidly in NK. I've been eating about 200 fat grams, 65 protein grams, and 20 carb grams daily. So, I'm under the ratio they recommend, even for the overweight: 200 / 65 + 20 = 2.3:1. I'm hoping this means that the difference is being taken from my body fat!

Personally I'm going to stay the course for a while. I've been trying to hit 60 grams of protein and 20 grams of carb per day. I usually overshoot a bit. 65 grams would be about right for a 180 pounds person. Since that's almost 50 pounds away, I guess I'm good with that for now.

Btw, the ratios I'm getting are very much in line with the ratios Jimmy Moore has mentioned.

What book?

Thank you for posting this.

Finally! something somewhat definitive about protein. Most (all?) LC books seem to use percentages or ranges for protein that are much higher than my glucometer will allow me to eat and even hope to lose weight, or they use esoteric termis ("reference weight") which they never define (actually "ideal weight" is another but if you go by the 100 lbs for 5 feet, with 5 lbs for each inch after rubric at least you come up with a solid number; or Kwasniewski's height in centimeters - 100 = "due body weight" in kg). And of course you hear all the scary warnings about eating too little protein. It's so frustrating that they're all different, and there's nothing solid.
/rant (sorry )

Is THIS the book?

I've had it saved to my wish list, but Amazon is offering it right now for $3.99 in digital format