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  #1   ^
Old Wed, Mar-03-10, 02:17
Pilili Pilili is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 327
 
Plan: Avoid PUFA, sugar & bread
Stats: 240/210/150 Female 156cm
BF:
Progress: 33%
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
Default Oatmeal

Hello there,

I have started reading the "Schwarzbein Principle" books and what I read sounds sensible. I am at the moment doing Atkins diet, but I consider - when I reach my maintenance phase - to switch to Schwarzbein (perhaps even earlier).

One thing baffles me though: the use of oatmeal. I haven't finished reading yet, I admit. Schwarzbein tells us not to eat damaged foods, but I cannot help but feel that oatmeal should logically be damaged. When you see what is done to the oat to make oatmeal out of it. It's boiled, and flattened and crushed and bent, and boiled again, and so on.

How can oatmeal be good if it has been tampered with so much?

Thanks for any info
Pilili
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  #2   ^
Old Wed, Mar-03-10, 08:09
amandawald amandawald is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,735
 
Plan: GF mod carb/Schwarzbein
Stats: 160/160/160 Female 164cm
BF:
Progress: 51%
Location: Brit in Germany
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilili
Hello there,

I have started reading the "Schwarzbein Principle" books and what I read sounds sensible. I am at the moment doing Atkins diet, but I consider - when I reach my maintenance phase - to switch to Schwarzbein (perhaps even earlier).

One thing baffles me though: the use of oatmeal. I haven't finished reading yet, I admit. Schwarzbein tells us not to eat damaged foods, but I cannot help but feel that oatmeal should logically be damaged. When you see what is done to the oat to make oatmeal out of it. It's boiled, and flattened and crushed and bent, and boiled again, and so on.

How can oatmeal be good if it has been tampered with so much?

Thanks for any info
Pilili


Hi Pi...

I think what has been done to oatmeal is piffling compared to the unbelievable amount of processing that other so-called "foods" go through. Most of what you describe is mechanical. Even those healthy oils, even the ones called "cold-pressed" such as olive oil and coconut oil, have also been subject to heat and pressure in processing: there is no extra heat involved in the processing, but the pressure applied to the olives/coconuts provides heat.

I sometimes make myself porridge in the mornings and find it very filling and satisfying. It has relatively few carbs compared to the other carby things I sometimes have for my "first" breakfast, so I have been wondering about having it more often.

Processing a food doesn't necessarily make it less healthy: it depends what kind of processing is done.

amanda
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  #3   ^
Old Wed, Mar-03-10, 08:41
Shyvas's Avatar
Shyvas Shyvas is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 560
 
Plan: Vegetarian LC
Stats: 148/137/132 Female 5.4
BF:
Progress: 69%
Location: Brit in South of France
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amandawald
Hi Pi...

I think what has been done to oatmeal is piffling compared to the unbelievable amount of processing that other so-called "foods" go through. Most of what you describe is mechanical. Even those healthy oils, even the ones called "cold-pressed" such as olive oil and coconut oil, have also been subject to heat and pressure in processing: there is no extra heat involved in the processing, but the pressure applied to the olives/coconuts provides heat.

I sometimes make myself porridge in the mornings and find it very filling and satisfying. It has relatively few carbs compared to the other carby things I sometimes have for my "first" breakfast, so I have been wondering about having it more often.

Processing a food doesn't necessarily make it less healthy: it depends what kind of processing is done.

amanda


Very true and who would eat an oat in it's natural state ?

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/how-...-processed.html
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  #4   ^
Old Wed, Mar-03-10, 11:53
Water Lily's Avatar
Water Lily Water Lily is offline
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Posts: 742
 
Plan: Paleo
Stats: 198/186/140 Female 5'5"
BF:
Progress: 21%
Default

Two problems with oatmeal.

It does raise blood sugar.
http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2...e-low-carb.html

The other problem is that if you are gluten intolerant, most oatmeal is usually cross-contaminated with wheat.
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  #5   ^
Old Wed, Mar-03-10, 12:55
amandawald amandawald is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,735
 
Plan: GF mod carb/Schwarzbein
Stats: 160/160/160 Female 164cm
BF:
Progress: 51%
Location: Brit in Germany
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Water Lily
Two problems with oatmeal.

It does raise blood sugar.
http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2...e-low-carb.html

The other problem is that if you are gluten intolerant, most oatmeal is usually cross-contaminated with wheat.


Hi Water Lily,

All carbs raise blood sugar. The trick is to add fat (butter) and then the spike isn't so bad.

Not everybody is gluten-intolerant. No celiacs would ever go near oatmeal, unless it were labelled gluten-free.

amanda
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  #6   ^
Old Thu, Mar-04-10, 02:19
Pilili Pilili is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 327
 
Plan: Avoid PUFA, sugar & bread
Stats: 240/210/150 Female 156cm
BF:
Progress: 33%
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
Default

Thanks all for the replies. I must admit I still do not feel truly convinced

I am now somewhat halfway through my book. Everything that Dr. Schwarzbein has written in chapter I, is simply repeated in the next chapters. It's also a way to get a book filled and thick enough to sell.

I have really understood it, yes, truly. Eat as many proteins and (good) fats and non starchy vegetables as you like, and add 15 grams carbohydrates at each meal.

I get the feeling that doing SP is less a diet and more a leap of faith. You just have to trust her that the carbohydrates you eat will not cause too much of an insuline production. Or is there a way of measuring how much insuline I produce after a meal in a certain combination?
With Atkins, it's easy. Your ketostick tells you that you are doing it as you should. If the stick is pink, you are burning fat.

But with Schwarzbein ketosis is considered "dangerous" (although I have still to read where the danger actually lies). So how do I know for certain that I am doing the diet correctly? The prospect at gaining weight at the start, doesn't appeal much to me, and I have a lot of weight to get rid off.
I know the prime goal of SP is to become healthy. I don't mind becoming healthy, but I would rather see it as a pleasant side-effect to losing weight
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  #7   ^
Old Mon, Mar-08-10, 14:00
talervo's Avatar
talervo talervo is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 164
 
Plan: Schwarzbein
Stats: 138/143/130 Female 64.5 in
BF:
Progress: -63%
Location: Colorado
Default

With oatmeal, she wants you to eat the steel cut kind. That has the least processing as possible. When cooked it is more crunchy (??) than the kind like Quaker. It probably has more of the bran still intact?

According to Wikepedia "Steel-cut oats may have a lower glycemic index than instant oatmeal (42 vs. 66, respectively), causing a lesser spike in insulin levels when consumed. The cause of this is undetermined, but believed to be a higher proportion of complex carbohydrate."

Read her second book because that explains a lot more of the chemical processes and also talks about why she doesn't want you to go into ketosis. I don't remember off the top of my head why she says she doesn't want you to. It has to do with the major hormones, I think.

If it helps any, I have gained weight, but not size. So, I must be building more muscle and bone due to this diet. I also am able to get off of my thyroid meds now. It's been about 2.5 weeks with just 1/4 grain every few days. No signs of hypo yet. I usually would feel the fatigue starting by now.
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  #8   ^
Old Mon, Mar-08-10, 14:22
Water Lily's Avatar
Water Lily Water Lily is offline
Independent Thinker
Posts: 742
 
Plan: Paleo
Stats: 198/186/140 Female 5'5"
BF:
Progress: 21%
Default

I've read her books and she has a lot of good ideas, except I don't agree with her on grains, including oats.
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  #9   ^
Old Tue, Mar-09-10, 01:49
Pilili Pilili is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 327
 
Plan: Avoid PUFA, sugar & bread
Stats: 240/210/150 Female 156cm
BF:
Progress: 33%
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by talervo
Read her second book because that explains a lot more of the chemical processes and also talks about why she doesn't want you to go into ketosis. I don't remember off the top of my head why she says she doesn't want you to. It has to do with the major hormones, I think.


Thank you, I have started reading Schwarzbein II last evening. You are probably referring to cortisol, but I will find out as I read on.

This morning I felt a bit brave, as my weighscale "smiled" at me. And so I opened a tincan of salmon, mixed it with some mayonaise, cut a few slices of cucumber and put everything on one (1) piece of whole-grain cracker which - according to the package - contains 4 carbs per slice.

I suppose - with Schwarzbein - there is only one way of finding out if you can manage this kind of food, correct? By eating it, and seeing if 2 hours later you get a craving. I have some almonds and a sausage within reach if I should happen to crave for food.

I am not sure if there is any other brand than Quaker for oatmeal where I live. I will keep an eye out though. Perhaps I find something better. If not, then, well, I will be testing every kind of food anyway to see how my body reacts. It's what I have been doing with Atkins these past few weeks as well. Only with Atkins, you complimentary have the ketostick. It does make things a bit easier.
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  #10   ^
Old Tue, Mar-09-10, 01:57
amandawald amandawald is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,735
 
Plan: GF mod carb/Schwarzbein
Stats: 160/160/160 Female 164cm
BF:
Progress: 51%
Location: Brit in Germany
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilili
Thank you, I have started reading Schwarzbein II last evening. You are probably referring to cortisol, but I will find out as I read on.

This morning I felt a bit brave, as my weighscale "smiled" at me. And so I opened a tincan of salmon, mixed it with some mayonaise, cut a few slices of cucumber and put everything on one (1) piece of whole-grain cracker which - according to the package - contains 4 carbs per slice.

I suppose - with Schwarzbein - there is only one way of finding out if you can manage this kind of food, correct? By eating it, and seeing if 2 hours later you get a craving. I have some almonds and a sausage within reach if I should happen to crave for food.

I am not sure if there is any other brand than Quaker for oatmeal where I live. I will keep an eye out though. Perhaps I find something better. If not, then, well, I will be testing every kind of food anyway to see how my body reacts. It's what I have been doing with Atkins these past few weeks as well. Only with Atkins, you complimentary have the ketostick. It does make things a bit easier.


Apparently, ketostix are not necessarily that reliable...

amanda
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  #11   ^
Old Tue, Mar-09-10, 02:35
Pilili Pilili is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 327
 
Plan: Avoid PUFA, sugar & bread
Stats: 240/210/150 Female 156cm
BF:
Progress: 33%
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
Default

So the only way of knowing if you can handle certain foods, is eat them, wait for 2 hours and see if you get a craving?
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  #12   ^
Old Wed, Mar-10-10, 13:18
talervo's Avatar
talervo talervo is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 164
 
Plan: Schwarzbein
Stats: 138/143/130 Female 64.5 in
BF:
Progress: -63%
Location: Colorado
Default

That's what I would do. That way you also see if you have any intolerance to the food, too.

I still have the II book and found on page 95 her explaination why she doesn't want you to go into ketosis. It actually has to do with your insulin levels. Just like you don't want them to get too high, you don't want them to get too low. Without enough insulin your body starts to use up functional and structural biochemicals. She explains that insulin is your "building-up" hormone, while cortisol and adrenaline are your "using-up" hormones. Without the balance you will either gain weight with too much insulin or lose bones, muscle, etc without enough insulin.

In ketosis your insulin levels go too low.
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  #13   ^
Old Thu, Mar-18-10, 19:21
slimmindy's Avatar
slimmindy slimmindy is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 104
 
Plan: CAD
Stats: 176/-/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 10%
Default

[QUOTE=Water Lily]Two problems with oatmeal. It does raise blood sugar [QUOTE]

I can say that when I eat a bowl of oatmeal (with cream and butter) it causes the same lethargy that I get when eating other carbs. I don't think oatmeal is the health food that "they" claim it is.
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  #14   ^
Old Thu, Mar-18-10, 19:29
kazLaJauna's Avatar
kazLaJauna kazLaJauna is offline
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Posts: 902
 
Plan: Atkins Induction
Stats: 282/266.2/174 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 15%
Location: Vacaville, California
Default

Ketosis is not dangerous or the cause of low blood sugar....there are whole societies that live on ketogenic diets with no poor health issues. (Inuits and some tribes in Africa) They actually have less health problems because of their zero carb intake.
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