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  #106   ^
Old Mon, Sep-06-10, 21:07
LaZigeuner's Avatar
LaZigeuner LaZigeuner is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,065
 
Plan: ZULCA!
Stats: 353/279.2/175 Female 64 in.
BF: For now...
Progress: 41%
Location: U.S.
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I heard from the publisher today---order received, all's well, it'll ship sometime this week.

And I found the looong OD thread, and am working my way through it (thanks, algts, for the tip!)
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  #107   ^
Old Mon, Sep-06-10, 21:11
algts's Avatar
algts algts is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,038
 
Plan: Primal-ish
Stats: 212/181/150 Female 64"
BF:
Progress: 50%
Location: Northwest USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaZigeuner
I heard from the publisher today---order received, all's well, it'll ship sometime this week.
Thanks for the update. I am looking forward to my book.


Quote:
And I found the looong OD thread, and am working my way through it (thanks, algts, for the tip!)
You are welcome! There is more than one....
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  #108   ^
Old Tue, Sep-07-10, 10:23
Seejay's Avatar
Seejay Seejay is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,025
 
Plan: Optimal Diet
Stats: 00/00/00 Female 62 inches
BF:
Progress: 8%
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Congrats, LaZigeuner!

Fasting for a couple of days - Dr. K doesn't specifically advise that - doesn't say not to either, it's just not in the spirit of the program which is "optimal" nutrition (not "no" nutrition). He also says somewhere that fasting is hard on an already-stressed metabolism.

I know what it feels like for more protein and carb for satiety, though. Could you ramp up the fat, and ramp down the protein, like 10% a week? That would be only one ounce less of protein per day, and a half serving of carb less per day.

I think that is more respectful of the way the body works. Our bodies change at the speed of growing things, not when we nod our heads and say "I get it, so now, body, do it!" LOLOL
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  #109   ^
Old Tue, Sep-07-10, 13:52
LaZigeuner's Avatar
LaZigeuner LaZigeuner is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,065
 
Plan: ZULCA!
Stats: 353/279.2/175 Female 64 in.
BF: For now...
Progress: 41%
Location: U.S.
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Thanks, Seejay Yeah, I wasn't thrilled about fasting into the OD, but even less thrilled about feeling like cr*p while I switched over to fat-burning.

I was skimming through my Bernstein book last night. He said that finding the right amounts of protein/carb for weight loss is done by experimentation: e.g., if you lose a lb on what you're eating, try cutting protein at 1 meal by a third, and see if you get the 2 lb loss (assuming 2 lb/wk is appropriate for your weight, which it is for mine). That seemed like a strategy that would work as I get down to my OD ratios.

I feel like I'm starting to try to analyze this too deeply, just as I've ended up doing for the last 7 years.
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  #110   ^
Old Tue, Sep-07-10, 14:38
Seejay's Avatar
Seejay Seejay is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,025
 
Plan: Optimal Diet
Stats: 00/00/00 Female 62 inches
BF:
Progress: 8%
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Yeah it's hard to turn off the overanalyzing mind munchies at first. If you just keep on DOING things as well as thinking you will be doing great, ha ha.
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  #111   ^
Old Mon, Sep-13-10, 17:55
LaZigeuner's Avatar
LaZigeuner LaZigeuner is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,065
 
Plan: ZULCA!
Stats: 353/279.2/175 Female 64 in.
BF: For now...
Progress: 41%
Location: U.S.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seejay
...If you just keep on DOING things as well as thinking you will be doing great, ha ha.


This is the KEY

My SO told me a story about a farmer who presented her (!) donkey with two options for its meal. The donkey couldn't decide which option to eat, and finally starved to death.

I re-read the first post in this thread, which is really informative, and re-read Dr. K's missive on OD vs. Atkins. One thing that attracted me to the OD was the consistency in terms of ratios throughout weightloss (1:2.5:0.8) and the change at maintenance being so minimal (more fat). The menus I work out NOW, when I have this wonderful chunk of time ahead of me to focus almost exclusively on my health, are menus I can continue to use when I'm maintaining.

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  #112   ^
Old Mon, Sep-13-10, 18:00
Seejay's Avatar
Seejay Seejay is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,025
 
Plan: Optimal Diet
Stats: 00/00/00 Female 62 inches
BF:
Progress: 8%
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Man that's what I like too. It's such a big deal for me to rearrange my routines that I like just doing it once. Once for weight loss and then that carries over into maintenance.
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  #113   ^
Old Tue, Sep-14-10, 04:36
Myrmecia Myrmecia is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 28
 
Plan: Palaeo/Groves/Kwasniewski
Stats: 171/171/171 Male 177 cm
BF:18%/18%/18%
Progress:
Location: Canberra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaZigeuner
... Dr. K's missive on OD vs. Atkins. ...
Where can I find this article by Kwasniewski?
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  #114   ^
Old Tue, Sep-14-10, 11:54
Seejay's Avatar
Seejay Seejay is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,025
 
Plan: Optimal Diet
Stats: 00/00/00 Female 62 inches
BF:
Progress: 8%
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  #115   ^
Old Tue, Sep-14-10, 12:17
LaZigeuner's Avatar
LaZigeuner LaZigeuner is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,065
 
Plan: ZULCA!
Stats: 353/279.2/175 Female 64 in.
BF: For now...
Progress: 41%
Location: U.S.
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This is the PDF I used. I made the assumption that it was unedited. So I don't know how it compares to the lulu.com document. (First couple pages, until you see the signature "Jan Kwasniewski".)

http://www.remedies4.com/download/n...atkins-diet.pdf
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  #116   ^
Old Tue, Sep-14-10, 14:14
Myrmecia Myrmecia is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 28
 
Plan: Palaeo/Groves/Kwasniewski
Stats: 171/171/171 Male 177 cm
BF:18%/18%/18%
Progress:
Location: Canberra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seejay
He has a download here: url]http://www.lulu.com/product/file-download/optimal-nutrition-versus-atkins-diet/4619741[/url]
As the Lulu document is a pay-for download, can you let us know if it's the same as or similar to the free one at www.remedies4.com?
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  #117   ^
Old Tue, Sep-14-10, 14:57
Seejay's Avatar
Seejay Seejay is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,025
 
Plan: Optimal Diet
Stats: 00/00/00 Female 62 inches
BF:
Progress: 8%
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Yes, it is the same. I was curious too.
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  #118   ^
Old Wed, Sep-15-10, 22:07
jem51 jem51 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,731
 
Plan: Mine, all mine
Stats: 160/120/120 Female 5'6"
BF:still got some
Progress: 100%
Location: Oregon
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i have read on OD sites thay you should not combine energy sources (carb, fat) but then that little tidbit is completely lost in the menu and recipes.

what's the deal.

the american site just seems like lc w weston price thrown in if you desire grain carbs...
it is really not helpful if you're trying to get the real meat of the plan.
but maybe JK would be saying the same if his recommendations were updated.

the original diet is so simple once you've gone through all the Q/A.

i just kind of followed my usual plan today w some butter on an ear of corn (usually eat in naked) and i came out a little more on all three components.
that was surprising since i've struggled to raise fat in the past.

one difference is that i usually have eggnog for breakfast which is made w raw 1/2 & 1/2, one yolk, CO.....
fat goes up w/o a thought.

carbs were 6 over and pro about the same. not too bad, really.
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  #119   ^
Old Thu, Sep-16-10, 02:27
Myrmecia Myrmecia is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 28
 
Plan: Palaeo/Groves/Kwasniewski
Stats: 171/171/171 Male 177 cm
BF:18%/18%/18%
Progress:
Location: Canberra
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Kwasniewski's book "Optimal Nutrition" provides a week's menus and recipes. The protein : fat : carb ratios balance out over each day and, to a large extent, over each meal. So I think the OD websites you cite must have invented the rule that you should not combine fat and carbohydrates in a single meal.

I have not read "Homo Optimus" and this is the book in which Kwasniewski provides his principles on more than diet. Perhaps there is something in that book which leads to the websites' rule. I have ordered "Homo Optimus" and expect to find it quirky, but will give it a go.
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  #120   ^
Old Thu, Sep-16-10, 10:43
Seejay's Avatar
Seejay Seejay is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,025
 
Plan: Optimal Diet
Stats: 00/00/00 Female 62 inches
BF:
Progress: 8%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jem51
i have read on OD sites thay you should not combine energy sources (carb, fat) but then that little tidbit is completely lost in the menu and recipes.

what's the deal.
I get from the book Optimal Nutrition that when he says that, he's talking overall. Not like food combining. He says for health it's best to decide what is going to be your energy source - fat or carb - and then stick with that. It's in the part where he talks about high-carb diets like the Okinawan or Kitavan that seem healthy - but he still thinks that the OD, with fat as the major energy source, is best.

Has to do with your body ramping up the machinery to deal with each. Worst of all is carbs over 35% and fats over 35% combined....
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