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  #1   ^
Old Fri, Apr-08-05, 09:04
Aetheana's Avatar
Aetheana Aetheana is offline
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Posts: 978
 
Plan: South Beach
Stats: 258.5/244.5/180 Female 5 feet 4 inches
BF:
Progress: 18%
Location: Rochester, NY
Default Too much Protein??

So Im a little confused. I think its because Ive read protein power and read the stuff on the boards about atkins. Ive heard about the 70-25-5 percentages with fat-protein-carbs... but what about if its almost closer to 50-45-5. Does protein power say thats ok? or is that still kind of a no-no. what does atkins say about eating that high in protein? i have been eating closer to the 50-45-5 percentage (especially when i eat tuna fish at any point during the day) and seemed to have stalled out some.

also, ive heard about the 12x body weight in calories. first off, its it times your CURRENT body weight or your IDEAL body weight? im honestly just not hungry enough to eat that much if its current! maybe im still halfway in the low fat mindset.

could people post some menus of what they eat at the 70-25-5 percentage?

maybe im just hopeless....
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  #2   ^
Old Fri, Apr-08-05, 11:13
MeBLady's Avatar
MeBLady MeBLady is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,296
 
Plan: Maintenance (PPLP)
Stats: 216/131/140 Female 5 feet, 5 inches
BF:48.79/21.19/23
Progress: 112%
Location: Southern California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aetheana
So Im a little confused. I think its because Ive read protein power and read the stuff on the boards about atkins. Ive heard about the 70-25-5 percentages with fat-protein-carbs... but what about if its almost closer to 50-45-5. Does protein power say thats ok? or is that still kind of a no-no. what does atkins say about eating that high in protein? i have been eating closer to the 50-45-5 percentage (especially when i eat tuna fish at any point during the day) and seemed to have stalled out some.

also, ive heard about the 12x body weight in calories. first off, its it times your CURRENT body weight or your IDEAL body weight? im honestly just not hungry enough to eat that much if its current! maybe im still halfway in the low fat mindset.

could people post some menus of what they eat at the 70-25-5 percentage?

maybe im just hopeless....


Hi :-)

I'm doing Protein Power too.....the book doesn't give us percentages, but I have seen percentages from those doing it to ideally be around 55/45/10.
Atkins is closer to 70/25/5. The difference between the two is that PP starts at a higher carb level.

IMO, 50/45/5.....your fat, and most likely your calories, are too low, and could be the reason for your stall. At a lower carb level, you need more fat, and can get away with more fat because the lower carbs will cause your body to turn to its fat stores a tad bit sooner.

With the calculations you are referring to, your calorie count at 214 pounds should be 2,140.

The opinions on calories vary, and it can depend on the individual as well as the carb intake.

Some people claim they cannot lose at 200 pounds with more than 1500, 1400, or even 1000. Others need close to 2,000 in order to lose. With the carb intake considered -- those following the 70/25/5 percentages are probably going to have more calories than one following 55/45/10, but both would result in weight loss.

Personally, I have tried all of the above -- I've lowered carbs/increased cals and fat, increased carbs lowering my fat/cals according to my hunger -- basically, let my body call the shots and let me know what it needs. I seen equal results, and good results, from both, but I think the change up itself, as well as listening to my body's needs, is what brought me success so far.

When my percentages are in the 70/25/5 range, I'm consuming about 102 grams of protein (minimum required by PP for my weight), a heck of a lot of baby lettuce/greens (.6 ECC per cup) with plenty of dressing, a serving of broccoli w/2 T of butter, shrimp sauteed in butter, mushrooms sauteed in butter, ground beef burritoes w/cheese and avocado....carb total between 20-25 ECC a day.

When my carbs are higher (30/40 range), my protein level stays the same, but I watch my fat a little bit. More chicken, less ground beef, and less cheese. More fruit servings. 1 T of butter rather than 2 on my broccoli. I still sautee my shrimp and mushrooms, but tend to drain it on a paper towel rather than sop up all the butter. I measure out my dressing to no more than 1 T per cup of salad.

Last edited by MeBLady : Fri, Apr-08-05 at 11:22.
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  #3   ^
Old Sat, Apr-09-05, 08:50
BawdyWench's Avatar
BawdyWench BawdyWench is offline
Posts: 8,791
 
Plan: Carnivore
Stats: 212/179/160 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Rural Maine
Default

First of all, I don't believe the claim that when you eat "too much" protein it turns to glucose. What's "too much"? I think there might be some truth to it, under certain circumstances like higher carbs, but I believe the original statement was probably taken out of context or misunderstood and then repeated so often it became gospel.

I also don't believe there's any magic to the percentages. True, Atkins is highest in fat. PP is moderate fat. You just have to figure out what seems to work for you.

Although I believe in PP, right now I'm following the Atkins 72 plan, which is lower in fat than the current plan. It's working for me.

I also don't believe in the "12 times your weight" thing. If you work out strenuously, you need more calories (i.e., nutrients) and more protein. If you're sedentary, you need less.

It looks like you're new to low-carbing. I noticed that you said your plan is "PP and your own." I urge you not to tweak this early in the game. Only after you have followed a plan (doesn't matter which, just pick one and stick to it) can you make an educated choice about tweaking.

Hope that helped.

PS: For menu ideas, I always go to the Atkins site (atkinscenter.com). There's tons of recipes and lots of full menu ideas. Look at the section on Induction to find the menus.
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  #4   ^
Old Sat, Apr-09-05, 10:29
kwikdriver's Avatar
kwikdriver kwikdriver is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,581
 
Plan: No grains, no sugar.
Stats: 001/045/525 Male 72
BF:
Progress: 8%
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I do 70-25-5, and it seems to have cleared up a blood sugar problem I was having when I was eating more protein and less fat.

I suspect, if you're getting that much protein and that "little" amount of fat in your diet, you're coming from a lowfat mindset. You're going to have to ditch that, and start thinking about fat as good. It's the only way to get to 70+% and enjoy what you eat.

To actually get to 70% fat is a little bit of a challenge until you get it down. First, you need to start eating more fatty meats. Chicken thighs instead of breasts, for example, and you've taken a big step right there -- thighs have about twice as much fat. And make sure you eat the chicken fat (that was a tough step for me). Make sure you cook using oil. Liberal use of salad dressings. Vegetables should always be eaten with butter. Lots of it.

They key with this is to always target your protein first, so you don't foul things up by eating too much.

I shoot for between 30 and 40 grams of protein per meal which forces me to supplement the rest of my calories with fat; you're smaller than I am, and should look at maybe 25-30 grams. That would make your typical meal (assuming a 3 meal-a-day plan) look something like this:

30g protein x 4 calories per gram = 120 calories from protein
6g carb x 4 = 24 calories from carb
38g fat x9 = 336 calories from fat

Total calories = roughly 450.


Tuna is tough to fit in to such a plan, unless you portion it out. It's almost impossible to eat a full tin of tuna, keep your percentages in line, and not eat about 2500 calories in a day. So eat half a can, or a quarter of a can at a time. I'm still struggling with the tuna thing because I dislike eating mayonnaise in anything but small quantities, but if you're one of those sick, sick people who likes mayo, you can make your tuna salad with extra mayo to add fat to your diet.

The rule of thumb I've seen and go by is 10x your current body weight to get a rough idea of your breakeven point in calories. This can change some depending on how muscular and/or athletic you are. At my size, I eat about 1800 calories a day and am losing pretty fast, and am almost never hungry since I started eating more fat. Obviously, how much you choose to eat is up to you, how fast you want to lose, how hungry you get, and so on.

Best.

Last edited by kwikdriver : Sat, Apr-09-05 at 10:51.
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  #5   ^
Old Sat, Apr-09-05, 23:03
Moonwalker's Avatar
Moonwalker Moonwalker is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,753
 
Plan: Low GI
Stats: 370/170/170 Male 6'1
BF:10%
Progress: 100%
Location: Atlanta GA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwikdriver
I do 70-25-5, and it seems to have cleared up a blood sugar problem I was having when I was eating more protein and less fat.

I suspect, if you're getting that much protein and that "little" amount of fat in your diet, you're coming from a lowfat mindset. You're going to have to ditch that, and start thinking about fat as good. It's the only way to get to 70+% and enjoy what you eat.

To actually get to 70% fat is a little bit of a challenge until you get it down. First, you need to start eating more fatty meats. Chicken thighs instead of breasts, for example, and you've taken a big step right there -- thighs have about twice as much fat. And make sure you eat the chicken fat (that was a tough step for me). Make sure you cook using oil. Liberal use of salad dressings. Vegetables should always be eaten with butter. Lots of it.

They key with this is to always target your protein first, so you don't foul things up by eating too much.

I shoot for between 30 and 40 grams of protein per meal which forces me to supplement the rest of my calories with fat; you're smaller than I am, and should look at maybe 25-30 grams. That would make your typical meal (assuming a 3 meal-a-day plan) look something like this:

30g protein x 4 calories per gram = 120 calories from protein
6g carb x 4 = 24 calories from carb
38g fat x9 = 336 calories from fat

Total calories = roughly 450.


Tuna is tough to fit in to such a plan, unless you portion it out. It's almost impossible to eat a full tin of tuna, keep your percentages in line, and not eat about 2500 calories in a day. So eat half a can, or a quarter of a can at a time. I'm still struggling with the tuna thing because I dislike eating mayonnaise in anything but small quantities, but if you're one of those sick, sick people who likes mayo, you can make your tuna salad with extra mayo to add fat to your diet.

The rule of thumb I've seen and go by is 10x your current body weight to get a rough idea of your breakeven point in calories. This can change some depending on how muscular and/or athletic you are. At my size, I eat about 1800 calories a day and am losing pretty fast, and am almost never hungry since I started eating more fat. Obviously, how much you choose to eat is up to you, how fast you want to lose, how hungry you get, and so on.

Best.


what was your blood sugar problem??
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  #6   ^
Old Sat, Apr-09-05, 23:33
kwikdriver's Avatar
kwikdriver kwikdriver is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,581
 
Plan: No grains, no sugar.
Stats: 001/045/525 Male 72
BF:
Progress: 8%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonwalker
what was your blood sugar problem??


Symptoms of hypoglycemia. Shakes and pounding heart, especially shortly after eating a protein-laden meal.
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  #7   ^
Old Sun, Apr-10-05, 00:02
Moonwalker's Avatar
Moonwalker Moonwalker is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,753
 
Plan: Low GI
Stats: 370/170/170 Male 6'1
BF:10%
Progress: 100%
Location: Atlanta GA
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oh okay.. im glad it got better for you.
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  #8   ^
Old Sun, Apr-10-05, 08:55
WendyOH WendyOH is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 437
 
Plan: Protein Power
Stats: 166.5/146.5/145 Female 67 in.
BF:23.21%
Progress: 93%
Location: Central Ohio
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There is a lot of misinformation out there about excess protein being converted to glucose and stored as fat. The Eades are very clear about this in Protein Power, that excess protein can be stored as fat, but ONLY in the presence of excess carbohydrate. So, so long as you are not eating too much carbohydrate to cause an insulin surge, you can eat lean protein to your heart's content. The Eades encourage you to eat your minimum protein amound each day, and if you are still hungry, then eat more lean protein. Personally, I find that this is the ONLY way that I am able to lose weight and feel good. When I ate 70% fat, I was always hungry, cravy, irritated, and on the verge of bingeing. I also never lost any weight. It wasn't until I upped my protein above 100g per day and lowered my fat that my cravings came under control, and I finally had energy and lost weight. Now, this is just my experience, of course, and I know all people are different, but it does go along with the science of Protein Power, which is what I believe in. Hope you find what works!
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  #9   ^
Old Thu, Apr-14-05, 12:04
mammac-5's Avatar
mammac-5 mammac-5 is offline
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Posts: 3,010
 
Plan: Ketogenic LCHF
Stats: 240/157/150 Female 5 feet 7 inches
BF:
Progress: 92%
Location: South Carolina
Default

Suggestions for raising your fat percentages (if that's what you desire to do):

Breakfast: cook eggs in bacon grease; use heavy cream in scrambled eggs; add cream cheese to scrambled eggs; use heavy cream in coffee

Lunch &/or Dinner: veggies in butter or cream sauce made of heavy cream; mayo (Duke's is the best!); pour olive oil over steaks before tossing them on the grill; baste chicken (with skin!) while on the grill with a butter/italian dressing mixure; fatty fish like salmon...again, basted with an oily/buttery something when grilling.

Desserts/snacks: full-fat cheeses; custards made with eggs and heavy cream (pumpkin is great for this); pepperoni slices; pork rinds...

As for tuna, I buy white tuna packed in olive oil. It can be hard to find, but Starkist makes it this way so it's doable. Drain it off, mix with Duke's mayo and whatever else I feel like tossing in. Lots of good fats then to go with the protein. It is high calorie, though, if that's something you're watching.
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  #10   ^
Old Fri, Jul-15-05, 16:00
Azlocarb Azlocarb is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 302
 
Plan: Protien Power
Stats: 225/175/190 Male 72in
BF:30%/8%/8%
Progress: 143%
Location: Reno Nv
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Here is a link to protein matabilizm and how glucose is manufactured from protein. The part most interesting is:

http://www.unisanet.unisa.edu.au/08366/h%26p2ptn.htm

Gluconeogenesis
The process of conversion of lactate to glucose is called gluconeogenesis, uses some of the reactions of glycolysis (but in the reverse direction) and some reactions unique to this pathway to re-synthesise glucose. This pathway requires an energy input (as ATP) but has the role of maintaining a circulating glucose concentration in the bloodstream (even in the absence of dietary supply) and also maintaining a glucose supply to fast twitch muscle fibres.
Seems like your body will only produce enough glucose from protein to maintain a supply for fast twich muscle fibres.
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  #11   ^
Old Fri, Aug-26-05, 08:38
black57 black57 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 11,822
 
Plan: atkins/intermit. fasting
Stats: 166/136/135 Female 5'3''
BF:
Progress: 97%
Location: Orange, California
Default

I am not good with numbers. Actually it makes eating alot less fun. I have, however, realize that I can eat pretty much as much protein as I want. If I overdo it, it does show up on the scale. Then I back off. I have some sort of vegetable or fruit at each meal ( I eat 3xs a day ). I use fat, freely.My preferences are butter, drippings, cream. I believe with this mentality it works out to the right percentage.
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  #12   ^
Old Tue, Aug-30-05, 12:30
kelrivas's Avatar
kelrivas kelrivas is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 188
 
Plan: 80/20 Low Carb Paleo
Stats: 250/190/145 Female 63 in
BF:
Progress: 57%
Location: Southern California
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My experience with PP is I need BOTH fat and protein for it to work properly. However, it’s like exercise to eat all that protein a day. What I mean by that is you have to work at it, be conscious of it, and keep track of it. It’s not easy at first because you may not be that hungry in the beginning, but you still have to get that protein consumed some how. For me I try to use creative ways, like whey powder added to my low carb milk and beef jerky snacks, and sausage snacks and ANYTHING with protein that is a finger food that I can just eat, but does not have too many carbs. Really be careful with cheese though, it can be the thing you grab the most because it is easy but you are getting more fat than protein, and this can stall your weight loss if its too much, without other sources of protein to balance it. Also I never eat veggies or fruit without at least some sort of protein. While they don't add to my weight, it has stalled my progress when I have eaten them excessively and not gotten enough protein with that meal.

I will say when I first started PP I found trying to consume enough protein as one of the most challenging parts of this diet and what set it apart from Atkins. However, it worked so much better for me than Atkins. But I feel like I am eating ALL the time, and I probably am. I eat between 1500-1600 calories a day at least six times a day. If I go below 1400 calories and I don’t lose a bit, and I can not go above 1650 unless I cheat because I can not eat all that meat in a day, I just get really tired of meat if I try.

I would venture to say that this is a metabolism issue. The less you eat the more your body goes into starvation mode and begins to conserve fuel. The more you eat, especially protein, the more you are telling your body that it is safe to burn fuel. I remember the Eades talking about this in one of their books but I don’t remember which one, probably the first one since that is the one I first used when I began this WOE. I know now they push not eating too many calories, but I just can’t lose on 1400 calories or less a day.
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