I used to love to run and have a couple of marathons under my belt (or should I say "under my feet"). I've been having so many issues over the last 5 years with plantar fascitis (sp?), knee issues, etc that when I had my last baby, I decided it would be better to lose all the weight first before running. Well, a year later and I still am carrying the weight. I miss running and the energy release it gives me. Plus, with 3 kids, I enjoy the time alone. I do not want to get injured and going slowly has never seemed to matter.

I've been reading so much about barefoot running (Chi and POSE, etc) that I am wanting to give it a try. But since I am not yet ready to go without for long periods of time, I am looking for a minimalist shoe. I bought some New Balance that were recommended for Chi Running and do not care for them. They still feel like shoes. I have a cheap pair of water shoes that I wear daily and I ran a little in those today. I like them better, but they move quite a bit around the top and I don't care for that. They cut the top of my foot a little. I have no desire to try Vibrams and nothing anyone can say will change that.

Has anyone tried Soft Star Shoes for running? Their RunAmoc? http://www.softstarshoes.com/index....Product_ID=1343 I am thinking about starting out in the trail ones (I do sometimes run on trails) and then try the street ones later as my feet get more conditioned to the sensation.

Also, does anyone have any advice about how to change your running style? I've read a lot on the sites about leaning and landing on ball of feet then allowing the heel to touch, and so on, but I am not sure I am doing it right. I find it so horrifying that it is not natural for me to run correctly! I guess so many years of expensive running shoes.... Ironic, huh? lol.

Along the same lines, I'd like to get my kids out of "good" shoes. My son has very wide feet, so it is hard to find him shoes to begin with. He prefers none. Anyone tried the Soft Star Shoes for kids?

Thanks all!!!

Any and all barefoot running stories welcome! I searched the forum and did read many of the posts, but I'd hear them all again gladly.

have you tried on vibram 5 finger shoes?
most runners and trail blazers i know, wear those.

Woo hoo! Welcome to the club!

I'm surprised I got here before jschwab did...

I loved "Born To Run." I tried to read "Chi Running" and got about 2/3 of the way through. There are a few helpful ideas and some good exercises, but so much of the book is just WAY too poorly explained.

My latest discovery came about after reading some other things about proper posture:

http://www.katysays.com/2010/05/17/...r-pelvic-floor/

Dreyer is sooo insistent about "leveling your pelvis" but he never really explains what that means. But he has this little throw-away comment that makes me think it's the opposite of what I initially thought:

At first I thought "leveling the pelvis" meant tucking my butt under. But now I think I really need to stick my butt out more!


That's pretty much the conclusion that jschwab and I have come to - cheap water shoes are just about the best thing you can wear. In winter we wear Teva Protons, which are warmer, more expensive water shoes. The best ones we have are from a local dollar store - they don't come up too high so they don't chafe as much. The water shoes I got at CVS have a drawstring and I do find it irritating to my ankles. Neither of us like the Vibrams at all.

I've been running actually barefoot as much as possible. I really love it, and nothing else compares! I get tiny bits of glass in my feet occasionally (no worse than minor splinters), and I scuff my heels a little too much, but other than that, there's no pain on smooth or soft surfaces. This winter I even tried running barefoot in the snow, and it wasn't half bad. Now we're discovering the need for shoes in the summer - asphalt gets HOT!


Janine is a much more intuitive runner. Her form is much better than mine, but she doesn't think about it as obsessively as I do, so I might have more to say about this.

I started out with Chris McDougall's idea that you barely even use your heels, landing on your forefoot and using the rest of your foot as a sort of spring to cushion your landing. I quickly discovered that this is BAD! I get major pain in my heels from this (post-tibial tendonitis, perhaps). This is one thing that Chi Running really helped me with: my feet, ankles and calves have to be as relaxed as possible. They should flop down and peel up. When I'm doing it right, my entire foot seems to hit the ground simultaneously, and my weight seems to be evenly distributed across it. Of course, as a habitual over-thinker, relaxing is just about the hardest part of anything.

One thing that's helped me get my mind off my feet is to try moving my hips more. This is tough for a strait-laced white guy like me, but every little bit helps! I stick my butt out and let my hips swing way back, and I seem to go faster and hurt my ankles less. Ironically, this seems to lengthen my stride even though it also helps prevent over-reaching. Yet another confusing idea of barefoot running that just gets in the way - I can't think about using a "shorter" stride.

I get the impression that barefoot running is supposed to correct your stride automatically. Unfortunately, I am much too self-conscious for that to work for me. I have experienced the same knee and ankle pain running barefoot as I have running in shoes, although it's more tolerable without shoes. I eventually learned that the knee pain comes from running too slowly, though, so that's not as much of an issue anymore.

What's even worse is that now I feel like I don't know how to walk anymore. I know Danny Dreyer wrote a Chi Walking book, but it looks so jumbled and vague I think I'm going to have to figure it out on my own.


Our kids wear crocs, flip flops and water shoes. And they're often happy to go barefoot!

Capmikee pretty much summed it up! I don't run barefoot as often as him - always in Protons or $6 water shoes if I am wearing shoes. I actually started running barefoot because I ran too far forward on my foot (no wear on the heel at all) and I started to have problems. I started running barefoot to get back solidly on my midfoot. Most barefoot runner I know consider the foot to touch down all at once. If you start running barefoot, you might bruise your heel at first, but you will adjust very quickly (just don't overdo it). I have run up to three miles barefoot and that took about a month to work up to. My suggestion before you go with something as obscenely expensive as the Runamoc would be to just try another pair of cheap water shoes. Or, if you are not self-conscious but want foot protection, you can run in socks.

do either of you still own a pair?
i ordered mine and can't wait for them.
i'm sure if you still have yours, you could sell them on ebay..
they go so fast here in the stores, they're always on Back Order...

let me know if you still have yours.
ty

I gave mine away. The guy I gave them to just ran a half marathon. I'm not sure if he wore them for it.

He did! I asked. I gave mine away, too, to another runner. Good karma and all that....

~capmikee - I overthink myself.... I just can't seem to get what I am supposed to do! lol. For me it is not intuitive.... I did go to that link you posted about posture and am going to give her squat exercises a whirl. Perhaps that will help me with pelvic positioning. I had taken a training course for something once and they mentioned thinking of the pelvis as a cup of water. Proper positioning would keep water from spilling out either way. It is one thing to stand still with pelvis aligned and another to walk or run that way. Do you keep cadence?

I am reading about the POSE method and did get a video. My husband just laughs at me. He can't understand why anyone would need a book to be able to run without shoes.

There is a park close by with a big grassy soccer field. I am going to go and get the kids to help me check for things that might cut me and then try some short runs to work on foot position, etc. I've read Barefoot Ken Bob's site and it makes me want to go without shoes, but I can't get over the fear of hurting my foot and not being able to run at all. I am sure once I run in my water shoes more and get used to that feeling, I will get braver.

~jschwab - do you leave the insole in your water shoes? I took it out, but there is a little plastic piece with little circle holes in it that bothers my heel. Since they were only $5, I may just use them for something else with the insole. The first time I ran in them, I got a bruise just behind the ball of my right foot - I must have stepped on something. I try to midfoot strike but just feel like I am flopping my foot down, since I am trying to relax like all the stuff I've read says to do. Trying to relax while remembering the other 20 things the book said to do.

~PilotGal - I am certified by the RRCA to train individuals for races from 5k to marathon and I also belong to a running club in town. Not one runner I know runs in Vibrams. They may have bought them thinking they would, but they end up setting them aside. IMO, there is no way that the toe length is right for even most people and if it is even a little off that can lead to injury when one racks up the miles. A shoe like that should be custom made. I have seen a site where you can make your own running haraches using the Vibram sole material - http://barefootted.com/shop/ I have thought of these down the road since water shoes tend to make my feet hot. I am a bit leary of the leather between my toes and across my foot though. I do not like blisters.

ahhh, the toe thing in the Vibrams...
there's a video on YouTube that shows you how you can lengthen the middle toe to accommodate people with long middle toes.
i'm not a runner so mine won't be used for running.
mine will be more for hiking and just walking naturally...
i'm excited...

You are like Capmikee, totally overthinking it. One suggestion that almost all experienced barefoot runners suggest is NOT to run on grass. It will not force you to adjust your form enough to be safe and you can't check for hazards. They suggest concrete as the first choice and I agree. Why can't you leave the insole of the water shoes in the shoe? That's what I do - or you could just wear socks with it. I also think if you are thinking about trying to land on your midsole you will hurt yourself. The idea is to run barefoot on a very hard, flat surface and allow your body to provide the feedback so you adjust your form. Just run 20 meters at first and see how it goes. Heel strike at the beginning - doesn't matter. Your body will adapt after a few weeks to a new strike. As I said, I heel strike more now that I run barefoot or, rather, my foot lands more all at once instead of up on my toes. For me, it's the #1 misconception about barefoot running is that it's all about running up on the forefoot/midfoot. You want to be landing so that it is like you are landing directly center on your arch. If your heel touches down first by a millisecond, it doesn't matter.

Honestly, I've tried thinking about this leveling the pelvis thing and it is just no use at all. I do better when I forget about it.

I think rather than thinking about posture in this case, the best thing to do is strengthen your core. Planks seem like a good exercise for it. Although I don't try to visualize whether my pelvis is spilling any chi (!), I do try to make sure my core is engaged. It seems to me like my glutes hold up the rear of the pelvis, and my abs hold up the front. That sort of fits with what that squats lady says.

I agree that trying to align the pelvis while running is just a total mystery. But engaging the core while running is pretty straightforward.

I've tried measuring my cadence but I don't wear a watch, so I had to use my cheap prepaid phone, which was far less than ideal. I might come back to it sometime if I get an iPod. I'm a musician so I've thought about creating some timed tracks for running.


I think walking barefoot is a good way to get over that fear. Start out just going barefoot around the house (sometimes the most dangerous place if you have kids who leave small toys around!), then work up to going to the corner store or the park. You'll learn how tough your feet are, and how hard it is to get a serious injury.


Go ahead and flop your foot down! I feel good when I manage to do that.


We got kits from http://www.invisibleshoe.com/. They're pretty good. I like them because they're easy to take off and carry around with you. There are a couple things that bug me about them:

The toes tend to flop downwards and occasionally fold under the shoe. After you get used to wearing them it doesn't happen much, but it's mildly stressful.

The rope between the toes can hurt. Loosening the laces seems to help. Curiously, it doesn't hurt when running, only when walking. I've had no blisters or chafing from them at all, though.

I've had excellent personal feedback and instruction from a Chi Walking instructor. Can you find one locally? It might ease your mind that you are doing just fine, just easing into it.

I personally recommend Ann Margaret or anyone she recommends:

http://www.myfitnessrecovery.com/trainers.html

Talk about overthinking - I am a huge fan of unstructured shoes. I use Teva Mush flip flops year round and the few times I run, I run in them. It ain't a sprint, as you can imagine, but it's even doable.

One thing I noticed with form - when I hit over 200 pounds on a 5'2" frame, I naturally began to land full-footed just to minimize the foot force and pain, and to hold the weight with good poise / posture.

I've since then wondered - would a normal-weight person get the idea of force distribution better, if they loaded up with 100 pounds, and then ran so as to still protect the "tensegrity structure" that's made up of bones, sinew, and muscle? Their own body might tell them. Good poise distributes the weight along the whole skeleton; something less than that and a part will get unduly stressed. Just thinkin.

Thanks for all the answers. A week or so ago, I ordered the Teva Proton's and I have another pair of water shoes that have nothing on top of my foot that rubs. The sole also comes up over the toes to protect them and I like that - not so much for protection, but it seems the sole will take longer to pull away from the shoe. I think they will last longer. I do notice water shoes tend the stretch a bit, but a smaller size wouldn't be right for my foot.

But it seems that it will be a little while before I can run again. My DH and I decided I would bring all 3 kids to visit the grandparents for the summer and I would stay here since I work "from home" and can work anywhere. Well, we are over 1,600 miles away from home. We all drove up mid-June and then my DH flew home. The plan was for him to come back mid-August to get us and then we'd all drive home. He is doing some major remodelling on the home and it is almost impossible with the baby in the house.

Well, last week I had a heart attack!!!! I am way too young - even the cardiologists all said I am too young and healthy for a heart attack. I noticed that I felt sore in my chest and my arms really hurt on Wed evening, so I went to bed. I had been playing disc golf with the kids while holding the baby so I thought I was just sore. I felt fine when I woke up and then around 3pm next day while driving home from Costco, the pain hit me worse. I couldn't lay down because both of my arms hurt so badly. The chest was a little tight, but nothing compared to the arm pain. Of course, no one was at the house when I got there with my 3 kids so I didn't call 911.

Long story short - I was admitted after being evaluated in the ER. The cardiologist came and said he just didn't believe that I had a heart attack even though tests indicated that is what it was. When the cardiac enzyme test showed I was getting worse, they did an angiogram. The doc confirmed it was a heart attack. I still can't believe it. He said it was a fluke and nothing more. He saw nothing showing any real damage or any indication it would happen again. They did a TEE a couple days later to be safe and that cardiologist also said it was a fluke.

The first doc put me on Lipitor even though my cholesterol is fine. He absolutely didn't care that it would prevent me from breastfeeding my daughter. When I went for the TEE, I asked that cardiologist and he said it is for inflammation - off label use which scares me since it is not approved for that. I asked if any tests were done to check for inflammation and he said they just assume it after a heart attack. However, he did say it was completely reasonable for me not to take it until I wean and then have a test done before starting it. I like him better.

Both said that I can run today if I want. I thought that was odd advice, but I guess since they saw no damage? However, I am a little nervous because of the "plug" in my groin from the angiogram. I figure I will walk and then after 60-90 days, when it should be disolved, I will begin running again. Anyone been in a similar situation?

Wow. What a summer this turned out to be!

Oh - please, if you feel anything weird or out of the ordinary - go to the hospital. It never occured to me that I had a heart attack. I really didn't think what I felt was serious, but it could have been worse if I hadn't gone at all.

Yikes, that's really scary!

My wife is always worrying that I'm going to have a heart attack from running or circus stuff. My great-grandfather died at 40 while trying to crank-start a car, and 3 of my grandparents died from various heart problems.

I hope this was just a fluke for you, or a remnant of old problems that are now resolving!!

Aw, man. Though I think if they said it was OK to run, it's probably OK. Take care!