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  #1   ^
Old Mon, Nov-06-00, 18:15
tamarian's Avatar
tamarian tamarian is offline
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Plan: Atkins/PP/BFL
Stats: 400/223/200 Male 5 ft 11
BF:37%/17%/12%
Progress: 89%
Location: Ottawa, ON
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If you've checked our "Studies" section under "Opinions against low-carb" you'll see that many consider the low-carb diet a fad. Here's a list I found someone sited as key points to declare the Atkins diet a fad!:


Ten ways to spot junk claims about nutrition from the Food and Nutrition Alliance.

1. Recommendations that promise a quick fix.

2. Dire warnings of danger from a single product or regimen.

3. Claims that sound too good to be true.

4. Simplistic conclusions drawn from a complex study.

5. Recommendations based on a single study.

6. Dramatic statements that are refuted by reputable
scientific organizations.

7. Lists of good and bad food.

8. Recommendations made to help sell a product.

9. Recommendations based on studies published without peer-review.

10. Recommendations from studies that ignore differences among individuals or groups.

From:

http://exercise.about.com/health/ex...y/aa112499a.htm

Now, if you look at these points, one by one, you'll notice they apply mostly to low-fat, low-cal diets!

Here's an interesting collaborative project we can all work on. Take one of the above points and discuss if it really applies to low-carb, and if not why not. Or add additional advantages for low-carb diets over the rest.

We can then combine all these points into a single articles explaining why low-carb is no fad.

What do you think?

Wa'il
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  #2   ^
Old Tue, Nov-07-00, 20:39
r.mines's Avatar
r.mines r.mines is offline
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Posts: 1,383
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 162/124/120 Female 5'1"
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Location: Vancouver,BC
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Hi, Wa'il. Interesting idea, and I'm sure we can refute most of the points you listed. Maybe the project will give us some ammunition to use against those "are you on that crazy diet" people we run into every day.

Unfortunately, I suspect that even the most closely-reasoned arguments won't work against someone who's already got their mind made up! Most people aren't interested in thinking beyond what they're told by the "experts." And in these people's opinion, the "experts" don't include us!

On a more philosophical note . . . what is a fad, anyway? As far as I can see, a fad is something - anything, probably - that's not (yet) accepted by the powers-that-be. Women wearing trousers was a fad. Rock music was a fad. Most (all?) of the world's major religions were once fads. As soon as things get accepted by the majority, they stop being fads and start being "the way things are."

When low-carb catches on among the general public, and when the so-called "experts" accept it, it won't be a fad any more. In the meantime, we'll probably have to live with the flack.

My humble opinion.

Rachel
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  #3   ^
Old Tue, Nov-07-00, 21:31
tamarian's Avatar
tamarian tamarian is offline
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Posts: 19,570
 
Plan: Atkins/PP/BFL
Stats: 400/223/200 Male 5 ft 11
BF:37%/17%/12%
Progress: 89%
Location: Ottawa, ON
Default

Good point Rachel,

My interest in a response is not to convert the closed minded, I tend to ignore them. But I'd like to collect a nice collection of responses (over time) to the FAD description for those who do low-carb, but feel they're doing something as quick fix, and think it maynot be healthy.

Example: The list says "beware of diets where you have to buy special products, etc." This may convince some, through a casual read through, but when/if they think of it, this describes low-fat, high-carb diets. The most important food elements in the low-carb diet are meat, eggs, cheese etc. And that maybe the motivation by food manufacturers to come up with such slogans against non-processed food, so they promote diets that market mainly processed food.

Wa'il
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  #4   ^
Old Wed, Nov-08-00, 12:26
r.mines's Avatar
r.mines r.mines is offline
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Posts: 1,383
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 162/124/120 Female 5'1"
BF:
Progress: 90%
Location: Vancouver,BC
Default Low carb a fad?

We need a 'thoughtful' smiley-icon.

I think I see what you mean, Wa'il. A series of well-thought-out statements to refute the claim that low-carbing is faddish/unhealthy/unnatural, as opposed to, say, the low-fat diet, which, as mounting evidence now shows, is itself faddish/unhealthy/unnatural (though, since everyone's different, it's probably fine for some!).

I agree that manufacturers will promote diets that let them market processed food (they don't have much choice if they want to stay in business!). But just to play devil's advocate, we see that happening in the low-carb world already, with Atkins bars, low-carb tortillas, sugar-free syrups, chocolates, drinks, etc. Let's face it, when was the last time you saw anyone - even on a low carb shopping site - advertising a pork chop, or broccolli, for that matter?

On the other hand, I agree wholeheartedly with your claim that you don't _have_ to buy special products to eat low-carb, and certainly Atkins, the Eadses, etc., have never advocated doing so.

This is an interesting discussion, I'm enjoying it!

Rachel


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  #5   ^
Old Wed, Nov-08-00, 12:30
tamarian's Avatar
tamarian tamarian is offline
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Posts: 19,570
 
Plan: Atkins/PP/BFL
Stats: 400/223/200 Male 5 ft 11
BF:37%/17%/12%
Progress: 89%
Location: Ottawa, ON
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Help, I can't find anything to disagree with! Even the thoughtful smiley, I'll look for one!

Wa'il
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  #6   ^
Old Sun, Nov-12-00, 11:29
r.mines's Avatar
r.mines r.mines is offline
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Plan: Atkins
Stats: 162/124/120 Female 5'1"
BF:
Progress: 90%
Location: Vancouver,BC
Wink Fad?

For the last week or so I've been mulling over the idea of a 'fad' and what exactly a 'fad' is, apart from the dictionary definition.

Then last night I was browsing through "New Diet Revolution" and I found this (pp 26 of the paperback version):

"You've heard the expression 'fad diet.' Fad refers to that which achieves a widespread, if evanescent, popularity. It conveys no value judgement on the ultimate worth of the thing described. The current diet fad is the low-fat, high-carbohydrate diet."

Then he goes on (p. 27) to say that, twenty years ago, low-carb diets were the current fad, and previous to that, calorie-counting was.

So by Atkins's own definition, this low-carb WOE *is* a fad. However, just 'cause it's popular, doesn't mean it's no good!

I think this is an interesting way to look at it, how 'bout you?

Rachel
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  #7   ^
Old Sun, Nov-12-00, 13:18
tamarian's Avatar
tamarian tamarian is offline
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Posts: 19,570
 
Plan: Atkins/PP/BFL
Stats: 400/223/200 Male 5 ft 11
BF:37%/17%/12%
Progress: 89%
Location: Ottawa, ON
Default FAD?

I'd say the Fad description, in this context, may apply to a specific form (book or procedure) of low-carb diets, when it becomes popular. However, the general low-carb lifestyle of eating meats and no carbs (or sparingly) cannot fit the description of a fad, since it was the only way of living for human beings, and it is the reference for which other "new diets should be compared to. In short, low-carb is the caveman's diet, and it would be a big streach to drag fad diets that far back, eh?

Wa'il
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  #8   ^
Old Sun, Nov-12-00, 13:59
r.mines's Avatar
r.mines r.mines is offline
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Posts: 1,383
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 162/124/120 Female 5'1"
BF:
Progress: 90%
Location: Vancouver,BC
Wink Fred Flintstone and Fads (love the alliteration!)

Now, THAT's a point.

Have any supporters of high-carb ever offered any evidence to support the arguments that (a) we've evolved beyond the Paleolithic diet, (b) the Paleolithic diet was unhealthy for our ancestors, or (d) that really, the early diet was in fact *not* low-carb?

'Cause if there is no evidence for any of these points (plus a few more I'm sure I haven't thought of), there's little evidence to support the argument that the early diet is not in fact still the optimum for people today. And hence, as you point out, *NOT* a fad!

Rachel
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  #9   ^
Old Sun, Nov-12-00, 14:17
tamarian's Avatar
tamarian tamarian is offline
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Posts: 19,570
 
Plan: Atkins/PP/BFL
Stats: 400/223/200 Male 5 ft 11
BF:37%/17%/12%
Progress: 89%
Location: Ottawa, ON
Default Re: Fred Flintstone and Fads (love the alliteration!)

Quote:
Originally posted by r.mines
'Cause if there is no evidence for any of these points (plus a few more I'm sure I haven't thought of), there's little evidence to support the argument that the early diet is not in fact still the optimum for people today. And hence, as you point out, *NOT* a fad!


BINGO! You'll notice under our studies section, we have a category for studies proving that low-carb is unhealthy/unsafe It is currently empty. I never found such studies (only opinions which is another category with plenty of articles) and never received feedback on this provocative assertion

Anti low-carb researchers only repeat that there are no studies proving Atkins is safe (despite numirous studies proving low-carb is safe).

Wa'il
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  #10   ^
Old Sun, Nov-12-00, 16:47
tamarian's Avatar
tamarian tamarian is offline
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Posts: 19,570
 
Plan: Atkins/PP/BFL
Stats: 400/223/200 Male 5 ft 11
BF:37%/17%/12%
Progress: 89%
Location: Ottawa, ON
Default Re: Fred Flintstone and Fads (love the alliteration!)

Quote:
Originally posted by r.mines
Now, THAT's a point.

Have any supporters of high-carb ever offered any evidence to support the arguments that (a) we've evolved beyond the Paleolithic diet, (b) the Paleolithic diet was unhealthy for our ancestors, or (d) that really, the early diet was in fact *not* low-carb?


I forgot to mention this, our ancestors discovered farming, grains and sugar first in ancient Egypt, where carbs started creeping into our diet. The interesting thing is that the earliest accounts of heart disease and diabetes are documneted in ancient Egypt.

Wa'il
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  #11   ^
Old Sun, Nov-12-00, 18:07
r.mines's Avatar
r.mines r.mines is offline
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Posts: 1,383
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 162/124/120 Female 5'1"
BF:
Progress: 90%
Location: Vancouver,BC
Smile Curse of the Mummies

The last chapter of "Protein Power" is on this topic. Very interesting!

I also remember, from some TV special I watched years ago, that some anthropologist came up with a theory as to how *very* early humans - proto-humans, I guess - managed to get meat without having to chase it down and without having to directly compete with other predators.

This guy's idea was that we were *scavengers* - that we'd go after the bones left behind by the predators, crack them with big rocks, and eat the fatty marrow. That's only one theory, but it sounds plausible. So much for the 'natural' low-fat optimal diet!

Rachel
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