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  #151   ^
Old Mon, May-07-18, 07:15
M Levac M Levac is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,349
 
Plan: VLC, mostly meat
Stats: 202/200/165 Male 5' 7"
BF:
Progress: 5%
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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Damn it, lost my whole post, t'was brilliant I say.

Ima recap the main points.

Episode 11 of ketohacking.

I wrote a blog post that predicts results of Jimmy's protein experiment, namely that BG will not rise.

He felt hypoglycemic, there's a simple explanation - too much insulin. But why is there too much insulin, and why is there still ketones? Liver insulin receptors shut down. Insulin can't get in, doesn't inhibit ketogenesis, yet acts on all other tissues cuz insulin circulates past the liver. Insulin doesn't get in the liver, liver doesn't degrade insulin, insulin stays too high.

He stayed hungry, in spite of too much insulin which should otherwise shut down hunger at the brain. Why? It's the dietary fat, not the ketones, not the insulin, just the dietary fat. Dietary fat activates the PPAR-x pathways in the liver. Therefore, dietary fat is a signaling molecule. This signal would then act on hunger and satiety hormones, ghrelin and leptin. That's where the hunger problem lies. It ain't the too much protein, it's the too little fat. This makes a lot of sense since eating too much fat is indeed quite difficult to do. The signaling from dietary fat comes straight from the gut, even as it is emulsified by bile, before it hits anything else.

I could try to re-write my brilliant post, but that'll do for now.

-edit- The thing about dietary fat signaling molecule, just came up with it in frustration about losing my brilliant post. Sorta brilliant in its own right if I say so myself.

Last edited by M Levac : Mon, May-07-18 at 07:25.
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  #152   ^
Old Mon, May-07-18, 07:55
wyatt's Avatar
wyatt wyatt is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 230
 
Plan: Ketogenic
Stats: 235/220/210 Male 6' 3"
BF:
Progress: 60%
Location: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Levac
On a personal note, I used to be a jerk, I also did a ZC stint a while back. Maybe there's a connection, I don't really care. I much prefer to not be a jerk, there's more perks to being nice. I prefer to be around people who are nice, and there's tons of nice people on this forum, so I stick around, follow the few simple rules of conduct, i.e. don't be a jerk.


Love me some Martin Levac

ZC is great but I cannot be that strict, for a short time it's a way to get nutrition and diagnose some. Also reversing NAFLD is fairly easy on ZC I'm told.
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  #153   ^
Old Mon, May-07-18, 08:03
PilotGal PilotGal is offline
Look up to the sky
Posts: 42,851
 
Plan: Maintenance time.
Stats: 206.6/178/178 Female 65.5"
BF:much better
Progress: 100%
Location: USA
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From 2006-2012, I was zero carb... it healed my body, leaned me out, brought back clarity, memory, lost the brain fog and everything else that goes along with carbohydrate addiction....

Been <10 carbs a day for 45 yrs. never did the ladder addition of carbs.

Itís been good to me.. but, I live in modern society and with that comes socializing with food... and I like to be amongst other humans..
I enjoy socializing and I eat more than meat, now..
Right now, I have gone back to zero carb for April & May as I am getting ready for a major surgery.. a hip replacement..
zero carb will cut the digestion time, allowing my body to concentrate on healing me, after surgery..
But I figure sometime in mid June, I will go back to a little WEE bit of vegetable matter and a grain here and there.. I enjoy a little variety.

But zero carb has been good to my body.
I think eating zero carb is excellent for a speedy recovery.

Last edited by PilotGal : Mon, May-07-18 at 10:24.
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  #154   ^
Old Mon, May-07-18, 10:09
M Levac M Levac is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,349
 
Plan: VLC, mostly meat
Stats: 202/200/165 Male 5' 7"
BF:
Progress: 5%
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyatt
Love me some Martin Levac

ZC is great but I cannot be that strict, for a short time it's a way to get nutrition and diagnose some. Also reversing NAFLD is fairly easy on ZC I'm told.

Yeah, we can think of all-meat as therapeutic. But we seem to think it must be done for a long time before it does anything. Personally, I found it works even for just the one meal. So, feel like crap, eat a steak, feel better shortly thereafter. Even if the effect of one meal is not that big, there's something to be said about the power to choose to eat just a steak for this meal. To have the choice is empowering. This choice is enabled by the knowledge we have about all-meat.
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  #155   ^
Old Mon, May-07-18, 10:56
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 12,140
 
Plan: ketosis/IF
Stats: 190/158/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 89%
Location: Ontario
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Quote:
Pancreatic alpha-cell function in idiopathic reactive hypoglycemia.
Ahmadpour S1, Kabadi UM.
Author information
Abstract
Idiopathic reactive hypoglycemia (IRH) is a well-documented but overdiagnosed syndrome. The presence of transient hypoglycemia and enhanced insulin secretion and/or increased insulin sensitivity before the onset of IRH is well documented. However, the data regarding glucagon secretion are sparse. Therefore, this study assessed glucagon and insulin responses to (1) oral ingestion of 100 g glucose oral glucose tolerance test (OGTT) and (2) a 100-g protein meal after an overnight fast in a randomized sequence at intervals of 7 to 10 days in five subjects with previously well-documented IRH and six normal subjects. Basal plasma glucose and insulin levels were not significantly different in both groups. However, basal glucagon was significantly higher (P < .025) in IRH subjects (347 +/- 83 ng/L) compared with normals (135 +/- 20 ng/L). In IRH subjects during the OGTT, hypoglycemia (2.7 +/- 0.11 mmol/L) occurred at 150 +/- 16 minutes and was preceded by a markedly higher (P < .01) peak glucose concentration (11.7 +/- 0.6 mmol/L) at 36 +/- 6 minutes in comparison to normals (8.8 +/- 0.4 mmol/L), indicating the presence of impaired glucose tolerance in these subjects. Similarly, the plasma insulin increase was significantly higher (P < .01) but delayed in IRH subjects compared with normals. In contrast, glucagon suppression was not significantly different in both groups, although glucagon failed to increase following hypoglycemia in IRH. During a protein meal, plasma glucose declined in both groups, with a significantly (P < .05) greater decrease in IRH subjects (-0.8 +/- 0.2 mmol/L) compared with normals (0.5 +/- 0.1 mmol/L). However, the glucagon increase was significantly (P < .01) blunted in IRH subjects (61% +/- 15%) in comparison to normals (152% +/- 39%). Thus, basal hyperglucagonemia with normal glucose concentration may suggest the presence of a hyposensitivity of the glucagon receptor in IRH. Moreover, the lack of appropriate suppression during the OGTT despite marked hyperglycemia, the lack of an increase at the onset of hypoglycemia, and the inhibited response to a protein meal in IRH subjects compared with normals denote altered glucagon secretion in IRH. Therefore, it is likely that glucagon receptor downregulation and impaired glucagon sensitivity and secretion may contribute to postprandial hypoglycemia in IRH.


Saw this on pubmed yesterday, sounds like what Jimmy's describing. Glucagon matters too. As far as insulin goes--Jimmy checked his insulin at the wrong time, two hours in, when he was feeling hypo. His fasting is 15, two hours in it was 20, after eating 120 grams of protein. Maybe he had a big spike, and most of it was cleared by the two hour mark, or maybe it never went that high in the first place. 15 is high for fasting, 20 isn't much of a rise past that. Of course I don't know what his glucagon was at all. If his insulin had been really high at two hours that would say something. Really you need to measure everything every half hour or so for three hours or more to be certain.

I'm enjoying zero carb right now, doing better on the non-beef bits, though, don't know why. No argument against zero carb here, argument against thinking that once you are zero carb, there aren't things within that worth tweaking if somebody's blood sugar looks crappy or something. "If I'm not eating plants, there's nothing left to try," isn't a thing.
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  #156   ^
Old Mon, May-07-18, 12:27
wheeler's Avatar
wheeler wheeler is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 772
 
Plan: Primal
Stats: 234/214/170 Female 5'9"
BF:
Progress: 31%
Location: Alaska
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PilotGal
Right now, I have gone back to zero carb for April & May as I am getting ready for a major surgery.. a hip replacement..
zero carb will cut the digestion time, allowing my body to concentrate on healing me, after surgery..
But I figure sometime in mid June, I will go back to a little WEE bit of vegetable matter and a grain here and there.. I enjoy a little variety.

But zero carb has been good to my body.
I think eating zero carb is excellent for a speedy recovery.



This is very interesting to me, as I am also planning for my upcoming hip replacement surgery. I'm thinking to make ahead lots and lots of bone broth and freeze. I really like the theory that zero carb will help with a speedy recovery.
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  #157   ^
Old Mon, May-07-18, 17:22
Emmie618 Emmie618 is offline
New Member
Posts: 5
 
Plan: Protein Power
Stats: 340/144/145 Female 62 inches
BF:
Progress:
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I've been eating carnivore (zero carb) for more than 2 years. Last summer, I had foot surgery, and my surgeon warned me that at my age (76) the healing time would be longer--8-10 weeks rather than 4-6. She was amazed when I was healed at 4 weeks.

Moreover, being unable to put weight on the foot for 4 weeks naturally limited my mobility, but I gained nothing during that time, eating zero.
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  #158   ^
Old Tue, May-08-18, 05:35
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 9,967
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmie618
I've been eating carnivore (zero carb) for more than 2 years. Last summer, I had foot surgery, and my surgeon warned me that at my age (76) the healing time would be longer--8-10 weeks rather than 4-6. She was amazed when I was healed at 4 weeks.

Moreover, being unable to put weight on the foot for 4 weeks naturally limited my mobility, but I gained nothing during that time, eating zero.


Wow, what an inspiring story and support for the healing properties of zero-carb!! And your weight loss at 76 is amazing too. We would love to read of your journey to good health...maybe a Success Story or Intro post. Thank you for sharing this info on healing.
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  #159   ^
Old Fri, May-18-18, 06:25
John222 John222 is offline
New Member
Posts: 1
 
Plan: zero carb carnivore
Stats: 222/168/168 Male 6 feet
BF:
Progress:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PilotGal
From 2006-2012, I was zero carb... it healed my body, leaned me out, brought back clarity, memory, lost the brain fog and everything else that goes along with carbohydrate addiction....

Been <10 carbs a day for 45 yrs. never did the ladder addition of carbs.

Itís been good to me.. but, I live in modern society and with that comes socializing with food... and I like to be amongst other humans..
I enjoy socializing and I eat more than meat, now..
Right now, I have gone back to zero carb for April & May as I am getting ready for a major surgery.. a hip replacement..
zero carb will cut the digestion time, allowing my body to concentrate on healing me, after surgery..
But I figure sometime in mid June, I will go back to a little WEE bit of vegetable matter and a grain here and there.. I enjoy a little variety.

But zero carb has been good to my body.
I think eating zero carb is excellent for a speedy recovery.


PilotGal may I ask the what exactly are your bone problems that lead to necessitate hip replacement?
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